What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

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What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby Orbmiser on Mon Jan 07, 2013 1:17 am

Just noticed an large upswing in New Mint users in View New Posts taking up first 1 and 1/3rd pages mostly new saying hi.

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And curious what is driving them away? Kudo's to Mint family tho always happy to see the family grow :P
Feel free if new to share your reasons. Or long time Mint user's that wish to share their take on it.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby famicommander on Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:57 am

I still use Xubuntu on my primary PC, but also have Mint, PC-BSD, Fedora, and Lubuntu installed.

My big problem with Ubuntu, like many others, was Unity. It has gotten better in terms of actual functionality but it's still a horrible chore to actually use. Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon but I don't see what the hell was wrong with simple, logically laid-out text menus sorted by category. There just isn't enough information density for me in "modern" UIs like Unity, Metro, or GNOME 3. I don't want decisions about how I use my machine made for me, and I don't want to have to scroll all the hell over the place or type in a search box to find things that should be a few clicks away.

A large problem with the search features in modern UIs is that they don't always bring up applications by category but rather by name. So if I searched for an instant messaging program, it might not come up unless I knew the name of the application itself.

Another issue is Canonical's whole Amazon shenanigans, though I stopped using Unity anyway so it doesn't affect me personally. It just sort of makes me sick is all.

I like the traditional desktop metaphor provided by Xfce, LXDE, and MATE. I don't hate KDE but I don't like it either.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby nomko on Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:07 am

I already asked such a question: viewtopic.php?f=58&t=121653.

I noticed as well that there's a big move going from Ubuntu to Mint and/or other distro's.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby xenopeek on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:22 am

I noticed that this morning; I think it is mostly from jesica. That member today replied to 1 1/3 pages of topics in that forum, so it looks more active than other days :wink: That said, we had a very significant increase of new members in December as compared to previous months. As you shared yourself on my topic, Linux Mint (and Cinnamon) is getting very good reviews in the media.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby nomko on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:35 am

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:I noticed that this morning; I think it is mostly from jesica. That member today replied to 1 1/3 pages of topics in that forum, so it looks more active than other days :wink: That said, we had a very significant increase of new members in December as compared to previous months. As you shared yourself on my topic, Linux Mint (and Cinnamon) is getting very good reviews in the media.


I think Mint getting very good reviews in the media is because Mint provides the best option users wants. For instance, an easy-to-use and almost a Windows look-a-like menu structure. It's easy to install, easy to use, less steeper learning curve (for instance, the learning curve for Debian is much steeper than the average distro), it's more accessible for beginners. Cinnamon provides the best solution for the Gnome3 shell. MATE provides the best solution for users who wants Gnome2... and so on....and so on...
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby Orbmiser on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:56 pm

"As you shared yourself on my topic, Linux Mint (and Cinnamon) is getting very good reviews in the media."


Yep there is that and am always getting shot down in the Ubuntu forums when mentioning how Mint is better for a lot of newbies starting out. Or mentioning I left Ubuntu because of the clustersuck Unity & the direction which is now Mark Shuttleworth at the wheel driving and ignoring the user base as he knows what's good for us.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby nomko on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:21 pm

Orbmiser wrote:Yep there is that and am always getting shot down in the Ubuntu forums when mentioning how Mint is better for a lot of newbies starting out. Or mentioning I left Ubuntu because of the clustersuck Unity & the direction which is now Mark Shuttleworth at the wheel driving and ignoring the user base as he knows what's good for us.
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Many Ubuntu forums suffer from the same arrogancy: Ubuntu is the best and the rest sucks! Same attitude which can be found on the Debian forum. But it's this attitude which brings Ubuntu to fall.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby sammiev on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:26 pm

I test many OS but I must add that Mint is my main OS. :D
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby xenopeek on Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:35 pm

Bashing Ubuntu and Unity doesn't make this any more welcoming to Linux Mint users that also enjoy using Ubuntu or Unity. So let's stop with the bashing.

There are plenty of users comfortably using the new features Ubuntu and Unity bring, and those users are welcome here on the Linux Mint forums as well. Linux Mint has different goals from Ubuntu, and you may find your needs fit with either or both of them. But let's not diminish the work being done in Ubuntu and Unity just because you prefer Linux Mint.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby veggen on Mon Jan 07, 2013 6:15 pm

So true.
This is something I keep saying. Ubuntu bashing can never be good, if for no other reason, then because all the hard work put into Ubuntu ends up in Mint as well. Some of us might not like its interface or what not, but we need Ubuntu to stay strong so we can stay strong.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby craig10x on Tue Jan 08, 2013 12:26 pm

And Unity is NOT horrible by any means...i wasn't sure if i would like it at first, but when i gave it a second try and spent a week with it (using a positive attitude) i got to like it a lot...and i find it far more intuitive to use then the new windows 8 for sure... :)

I found that the secret to getting to like unity was to think of it as a "shortcut taskbar" and simply put all my favorites and frequently used apps on it for quick,
1-click access...and when i want to bring up something rarely used, i just open the "dash" (search) and start typing in the app and bring it up (like the terminal
for example, which i rarely use)...

While there was a flood of unity haters on the ubuntu forums when it first came out, many have turned around about it and now like it a lot...
But for those who want alternatives, ubuntu offers many as does linux mint...

And as was said, ubuntu is underneath mint, so bashing the linux mint distro's core is really not a good thing to do... :roll:
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby viking777 on Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:14 pm

And Unity is NOT horrible by any means


Well said 10x. I almost totally ignored Ubuntu until Unity was released, I now believe it to be the best desktop environment Linux has ever had and Ubuntu is my first choice of operating system now entirely because of that desktop. That is not to say that Cinnamon is not good - it really is, but not as good as Unity. Sadly of late Canonical have done their best to cripple Unity, first by removing 'dodge windows' from the launcher (unmitigated stupidity of the highest order) and then by adding Amazon search results to the dash - but at least they allow you to get rid of that monstrosity. Even with those two massive own goals it is still a lovely piece of work. Like I said in another post, I only wish Clem would introduce a fork of Unity to Mint, undo the horrors that Canonical introduced and apply the same sort of common sense approach that he has with Mate and Cinnamon. He would then really please all the people all the time :D
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby Thaeri on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:50 am

I don't like Unity, it's as simple as that.

It's a lot better than in the beginning though, the main problem I have with it in 12.10 is that when you look for programmes they are still sorted by name rather than category, and that all the things you find in the system settings are also among the installed programmes, making the list a lot longer than it has to be. I also think that there are a little too many things that you can't remove from the launcher, like my two extra hard drives, or the desktop switcher, which could have been placed in the panel among the other things to the right, but those things aren't that big of an issue.

And I won't bash Ubuntu, it's just not for me any more :(
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby viking777 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:58 am

Well that explains the difference in opinion between us Thaeri, you see I absolutely can't stand applications ordered in categories (like the old gnome2 menu that drove me to the brink of insanity it was so difficult to find things). I always want applications sorted by name. However (and I am not trying to convert you here I hate it when people try and do that to me) I should perhaps point out a couple of misapprehensions you have. Firstly if you open the dash and go to the 'app' lens (or click Windows/A which opens it automatically) in the top right hand corner you will see 'Filter Results' Which organises the apps by category as you prefer, it is just that it is not the default setting.

You can remove hard drives from the launcher - I have an external drive which I don't want to show up. The theory is that you just right click the drive you don't want to see and select 'Remove from Launcher'. In fact this didn't work for me so I had to go into dconf editor and set it up from there ( com.canonical.Unity.Devices.Blacklist ). It shouldn't be that difficult, but it is possible.

I agree with you about the workspace switcher, I don't need it because I use a mouse most of the time and set up a hot corner bottom left to 'spread' the workspaces and if you are a keyboard user it is Windows/S. There are some workrounds available, one is to not use more than one workspace - not an option for most people though - the other involves altering coding which is too deep - it should be simple.

Still, like I said, I don't want to convert anyone, if I am happy with what I have and you are happy with what you have, we are both happy - right :D

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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby Thaeri on Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:20 pm

That's the thing, Ubuntu used to be "Linux for ordinary people" so using dconf just to remove a couple of things from the launcher? nah, that's not for ordinary people, that's for advanced users.

About the "filter results" never saw that :oops: Still, for the beginner it should be there by default, it's better that we who know enough to look things up can remove it than the other way around. Again, I wonder where the "Linux for ordinary people" went...

But it's great that Unity like it is now works for you :) I'll go with MATE for now, and also recommend it for people who are new to Linux.

Edit: In another thread I also wondered why Canonical couldn't have just added Unity to their desktop environments instead of making a complete switch, that would have been perfect :D

(I'm sorry if my English isn't perfect, it's not my native language)
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby mintybits on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:42 pm

I first discovered Ubuntu at 9.04 - when it had the warm, earthy colours and "out of Africa" theme and the slogan "Linux for human beings". All nicely harmonious with personality and an infectiously positive spirit, I thought.

Now it has a banal font and a purple and orange colour scheme whose spectral disharmony seems to reflect the general change of style and attitude at Canonical. And the most rediculous release names I have ever heard. Canonical has commercial interests and a owner-dictator with strong views, shall we say! You can't blame the guy, he has put a lot of money into it and is still trying to squeeze a profit from it (I may be out of date...has a profit been made yet?). He has created some jobs for some programmers and some marketeers. I suppose disharmony is to be expected when commercialism and altruism both have a hand on the steering wheel.

To me, Mint has still got personality and positive spirit...albeit grafted on to Ubuntu and therefore necessarily constrained. It is great to see Mint putting effort into things that really help improve it for the normal user base like the new desktops and Nemo. To me, Mint is much more "Linux for human beings" than Ubuntu is now. Perhaps others feel this too and this may explain some migration to Mint.

I am out of touch with how popular linux is in general now. To what extent has Canonical fixed its #1 "bug report" - to annihilate Windows? I am nearly a full-time user of linux and wouldn't want to be at the mercy of Microsoft again but the vexing truth is that even when the operating system is free the vast majority of computer users don't want it.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby KBD47 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:18 pm

I actually was finally warming up to Unity. Been using 12.04 on one of my laptops for the past few months, then ran updates a couple of days ago and totally fracked the install. It was just regular updates, 34 mb, but after I restarted I had an unusable desktop. I finally got synaptic package manager opened and as a last effort installed Kubuntu desktop and saved the install. Very disappointed that an LTS release should break so soon and so badly.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby xenopeek on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:52 am

Upgrade in place has 20% failure rate, which is why Linux Mint doesn't recommend you play "upgrade roulette". Clean install next time to upgrade to a newer release? :wink:
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby nomko on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:18 am

xenopeek wrote:Upgrade in place has 20% failure rate, which is why Linux Mint doesn't recommend you play "upgrade roulette". Clean install next time to upgrade to a newer release? :wink:

Clean installs is what i always do. Never upgrade over an old/existing version. Most problems arise when an existing version is being upgraded to a newer version which lead to issues with differences in package versions. I had it in my early days (Ubuntu 7.04) but learned it the hard way never to upgrade an existing version.

mintybits wrote:when it had the warm, earthy colours and "out of Africa" theme and the slogan "Linux for human beings".

Yes, that was the time i liked Ubuntu a lo too.....

mintybits wrote:Canonical has commercial interests...

Ofcourse they have. Do people really think that Amazon is totally free? Amazon paid Canonical for this option in Ubuntu. And Ubuntu users can expect more of this rubbish. Hooray for commercialization!!!


I tried Ubuntu 12.04 with Unity. After have it installed and updated i tried to remove programs which i don't like. And then the sh-it happens... it became buggy, unstable, unreliable. Error messages keep popping up. Couldn't work with it, I lost my trusty old Ubuntu feelings to unity... Sadly but true.

Most heard complaint what i hear about Mint is that is it made for dummies. Everything is installed out-of-the-box and it works immediately! Not installing extra needed packages and so on. Cinnamon and MATE have a fresh look, easy to use and gives back that old trusty feeling. Even though Mint has it's flaws, i think that this "providing the old trusty feeling and ease" attitude of Mint attracts a lot of new users.
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Re: What is Ubuntu Doing to drive them here?

Postby KBD47 on Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:15 am

xenopeek wrote:Upgrade in place has 20% failure rate, which is why Linux Mint doesn't recommend you play "upgrade roulette". Clean install next time to upgrade to a newer release? :wink:


I'm not talking about an upgrade, but a regular set of updates that broke Unity.
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