Linux Mint - not for the amateur

[xenopeek]

Having been "persuaded" by a magazine I read to give Linux a try I have spent some hours attempting to do just that.

I tried Ubuntu a few weeks ago but to no avail so recently managed to load Mint 13.

Every time I tried to start it it gave error messages and I had to start all over again eventually after it hadut "repaired" something I got in and it seemed to be OK except that it didn't recognise an external HDD I have.

But having to re-boot several times before it would start up I then thought maybe 14 would be an improvement on 13 after perhaps ironing out errors maybe but that is even worse it won't load at all.

It is clear to me as an amateur that Linux is still very much for "experts" who have sufficient knowledge to work around problems but for the uninitiated it is simply a pain.

Until such time as Mint or any other Linux OS literally runs straight from the box (so to speak) it will remain a niche system.

It is clear that just looking at the number of queries and problems people have on this forum that Mint is not fit for purpose unless I have missed the point completely and that it is simply user testing with a view to producing the next version?

Having wasted many frustrating hours this is clearly not something for an amateur like me and I should stick with Windows which does at least work every time.

[Pierre]

On the contary - I've placed 'mint' onto lots of PCs,
for the very precise reason - that it is so easy to use . . .

Once people 'get over' that it is not "windows",
& that windows software - won't work
&& that the vast majority of PC users - don't even need that 'O/S'
- to perform 'daily tasks / needs'.

They find that Mint - works very well - for them.

It sounds to me - that you may have a faulty cd . . . . . . .
- see if you can download & burn your own copy.

[d00med]

Sorry you had a bad experience. What kind of computer / hardware do you have? Ubuntu and Mint are pretty much expected to run out-of-the-box, and it's a shame when it doesn't work for a new user.

On the contary - I've placed 'mint' onto lots of PCs,
for the very precise reason - that it is so easy to use . . .

Once people 'get over' that it is not "windows",
& that windows software - won't work

That attitude isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

[nomko]

Having been "persuaded" by a magazine I read to give Linux a try I have spent some hours attempting to do just that.

Which magazine was it?

I tried Ubuntu a few weeks ago but to no avail so recently managed to load Mint 13.
Every time I tried to start it it gave error messages and I had to start all over again eventually after it hadut "repaired" something I got in and it seemed to be OK except that it didn't recognise an external HDD I have.

Which Mint 13 version did you try? The MATE version? Cinnamon version? The KDE version? And what are the spec's of your system?

But having to re-boot several times before it would start up I then thought maybe 14 would be an improvement on 13 after perhaps ironing out errors maybe but that is even worse it won't load at all.

It is clear to me as an amateur that Linux is still very much for "experts" who have sufficient knowledge to work around problems but for the uninitiated it is simply a pain.Until such time as Mint or any other Linux OS literally runs straight from the box (so to speak) it will remain a niche system.

stuff if you ask me! Linux made some good progress regarding user friendliness! It isn't no longer that geek and nerd operating system as it was. Linux has a much steeper learning curve than Windows, keep that in mind. If you're not willing to learn Linux, you will never understand how Linux works and how to solve problems.

It is clear that just looking at the number of queries and problems people have on this forum that Mint is not fit for purpose unless I have missed the point completely and that it is simply user testing with a view to producing the next version?

Like other operating don't come with problems... this is not a good comparison. And for what purpose is Mint not fit for?

Having wasted many frustrating hours this is clearly not something for an amateur like me and I should stick with Windows which does at least work every time.

Bye Bye!

[nomko]

Sorry you had a bad experience. What kind of computer / hardware do you have? Ubuntu and Mint are pretty much expected to run out-of-the-box, and it's a shame when it doesn't work for a new user.

On the contary - I've placed 'mint' onto lots of PCs,
for the very precise reason - that it is so easy to use . . .

Once people 'get over' that it is not "windows",
& that windows software - won't work

That attitude isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

I think what Pierre is referring to is that most new Linux users amuse that they can still use their too expensive bought Windows software on Linux.

[cicero01]

Having been "persuaded" by a magazine I read to give Linux a try I have spent some hours attempting to do just that.

Which magazine was it?

Computer Active!

I tried Ubuntu a few weeks but to no avail so recently managed to load Mint 13.
Every time I tried to start it it gave error messages and I had to start all over again eventually after it hadut "repaired" something I got in and it seemed to be OK except that it didn't recognise an external HDD I have.

Which Mint 13 version did you try? The MATE version? Cinnamon version? The KDE version? And what are the spec's of your system?

Mate

But having to re-boot several times before it would start up I then thought maybe 14 would be an improvement on 13 after perhaps ironing out errors maybe but that is even worse it won't load at all.

It is clear to me as an amateur that Linux is still very much for "experts" who have sufficient knowledge to work around problems but for the uninitiated it is simply a pain.Until such time as Mint or any other Linux OS literally runs straight from the box (so to speak) it will remain a niche system.

stuff if you ask me! Linux made some good progress regarding user friendliness! It isn't no longer that geek and nerd operating system as it was. Linux has a much steeper learning curve than Windows, keep that in mind. If you're not willing to learn Linux, you will never understand how Linux works and how to solve problems.

The problem is getting it running you can't do much learning if it won't run in the first place!
And as for solving problems that's my point people like me don't want to waste effort "solving problems" we just want it to work!! Which is why you have confirmed my view it ain't for mainstream amateurs if you have to start solving problems.

It is clear that just looking at the number of queries and problems people have on this forum that Mint is not fit for purpose unless I have missed the point completely and that it is simply user testing with a view to producing the next version?

Like other operating don't come with problems... this is not a good comparison. And for what purpose is Mint not fit for?

If I buy a laptop with Windows what problems do I have? In my experience none!

Having wasted many frustrating hours this is clearly not something for an amateur like me and I should stick with Windows which does at least work every time.

Bye Bye!

Cheers.

[nomko]

You've placed your quotes at the wrong place

[bigj231]

I've noticed in my experience that Linux tends to have more issues up front than with windows. Stupid little things wrong with the installer, or setting up graphics drivers, etc... Once you get these issues ironed out, and if you don't try to run the bleeding edge updates or do other stupid things, you don't have to mess with it ever again. Look at some Debian stable systems for a good idea of how problem free a system can be. I've seen several run for years with only the critical security updates and never have issues. I personally still have a Gentoo install running from almost 4 years ago now. I don't use it much, but it is still as quick as it was when I set it up. Not to mention the latest versions of Mint will run without issue on lower end hardware that formerly ran XP. Try running 7 on 512MB of RAM and a 600MHz Pentium.

I've also noticed in my experience that Windows is usually problem free without any configuration when it's new. After a few years (usually less than 2, which coincidentally happens to be the support length for non-LTS releases of Ubuntu/Mint) the Windows systems slow down and most power users will reinstall the system. The "amateur" user will still continue to use the windows system until the hardware dies, despite the slowdown and error messages, or will upgrade to a new system in the false hope that it will fix the slowdown from ever occurring again.

TL;DR: Windows systems are easier to initially setup, but in the long term a Linux system will generally be more problem free. If you don't want to put in the initial setup time, stick with Windows and buy a new computer every few years.

[cicero01]

I've noticed in my experience that Linux tends to have more issues up front than with windows. Stupid little things wrong with the installer, or setting up graphics drivers, etc... Once you get these issues ironed out, and if you don't try to run the bleeding edge updates or do other stupid things, you don't have to mess with it ever again. Look at some Debian stable systems for a good idea of how problem free a system can be. I've seen several run for years with only the critical security updates and never have issues. I personally still have a Gentoo install running from almost 4 years ago now. I don't use it much, but it is still as quick as it was when I set it up. Not to mention the latest versions of Mint will run without issue on lower end hardware that formerly ran XP. Try running 7 on 512MB of RAM and a 600MHz Pentium.

I've also noticed in my experience that Windows is usually problem free without any configuration when it's new. After a few years (usually less than 2, which coincidentally happens to be the support length for non-LTS releases of Ubuntu/Mint) the Windows systems slow down and most power users will reinstall the system. The "amateur" user will still continue to use the windows system until the hardware dies, despite the slowdown and error messages, or will upgrade to a new system in the false hope that it will fix the slowdown from ever occurring again.

TL;DR: Windows systems are easier to initially setup, but in the long term a Linux system will generally be more problem free. If you don't want to put in the initial setup time, stick with Windows and buy a new computer every few years.

Hi,

I've been using XP for heaven knows how many years and on a couple of occasions have re-installed it from the same disk to see if it makes much difference. Thing is when I've re-installed it just works as it did before - no hassle.

My better half has a Toshiba laptop running Windows 7 for the last two years or so without issue and it seems OK.

I decided that as XP was pretty old I'd try Linux but perhaps naively wasn't expecting to have to embark on problem solving just to get it to run. Maybe I'm just unlucky?

I still think Linux is for folks with more than my rudimentary knowledge of computing as if it doesn't install and run straight off I'm pretty much stuck.

Cheers.

[xenopeek]

I still think Linux is for folks with more than my rudimentary knowledge of computing as if it doesn't install and run straight off I'm pretty much stuck.

That goes for any operating system. You've been lucky that your computers worked with Windows XP and Windows 7, but then you probably only installed the Windows version that you got when you bought the computers. There are plenty of stories (at least I have a few...) of users trying to install a new Windows version onto an older computer and failing horribly. Manufacturers too often don't supply drivers for older computers on newer Windows versions, or it takes very long for the drivers to become available or to be updated to fix bugs. Once you run into your operating system not working out of the box on your computer, you'll be in for some work regardless of the operating system you use.

But as always, use whatever works best for you

[lexon]

A few weeks ago I dual booted my girlfriends slow XP desktop. Works fine and I am not a Linux techie type. I very rarely ever mess with command line. Lazy former Windows user you might say.
She has never been happier with her PC. No more bloatware bothering her.
I have put Mint 9 in an older Toshiba Satellite laptop that has probably 500mb Ram and a little slow but works. It is a back up PC for her.

L

[cicero01]

I think the various comments made in response to my observations have been helpful but haven't changed my views particularly.

I ve long had an issue in regard to the marketing and selling of computers which are generally promoted to the unsuspecting consumer in the same way as a TV or radio is - you switch it on and away you go nothing more to learn or to have to do.

A friend of mine bought a new laptop last year and within a few weeks something had gone wrong - whether his fault or not I don't know - and since then it has been sitting on a shelf unused and unusable as he has no idea what is wrong or how to fix it although why he doesn't take it to a repairer I don't know.

My grumble with mint was that although it apparently installed OK every time I restarted it it failed and I had to switch off and try again. Generally, second or third time it started up. But it's all time wasting and irritating.

I then tried v14 which refused to install at all!

But then maybe I'm just unlucky.

[nomko]

There are plenty of stories.....of users trying to install a new Windows version onto an older computer and failing horribly. Manufacturers too often don't supply drivers for older computers on newer Windows versions

The problem with this is that Microsoft starts dropping any kind of support for older hardware or demands hardware manufacturers to end the Windows support for older hardware. I think this has to do to get Windows much more stable by avoiding 32-bits drivers on a 64-bits system. Putting 32-bits drivers into a 64-bit OS makes it much unstable. Focussing on newer hardware, which only can function in a 64-bit system, improves the stability of Windows. There's a lesser or no reason to have the 32-bit backwards compatibility mode alive under Windows 7 and nowadays Windows 8. And also the amount of users who still work with very old hardware are getting lesser and lesser in such way that Microsoft doesn't see any reason to keep that 32-bit backwards compatibility mode up-and-running for newer Windows versions. Eventually people will buy newer hardware...

This is also one of the many advantages of Linux, still capable of running on older hardware. But even here the fact remains that old(er) hardware will get replaced by time.

And now the topic title: Linux Mint - not for the amateur... i disagree with this. Linux has come from far to get rid of that geek and nerd label. Installing Linux is as easy as installing Windows. In fact, 2 weeks ago i installed W7 on a laptop of a relative of mine and i was surprised to see that it had some similarities with the way how to install Linux. If somebody is claiming that it is really difficult to install Linux...that person is either non-technical or stupid or stubborn with Windows or not willing to learn Linux! Ofcourse Linux hasn't reached by far the status of Windows, but why should Linux? I enjoy Linux, i enjoy Mint. And my experience is that people are getting more curious about Linux rather than looking at me and asking if i'm a geek or a nerd or a computerfreak... When i explain them the advantages of Linux i really see that they are interested.

[cicero01]

Well I decided to give the thing one more try!!

So tonight I started again first effort it stalled on a small rectangular box on the top left of the screen - nothing moved.

Second attempt.

This time when it said it was starting in x seconds I pressed enter and it produced a screen with various options - I when for option 1

To my surprise it started to install and this time for the first time it seemed to go through the whole process including the slide show which it didn't before.

After about 50 minutes it said it had finished and asked if I wanted to carry on testing or restart.

Perhaps foolishly as it said it had finished I took out the DVD and it promptly threw a wobbler! I wasn't pleased.

Anyway re-booted and started from a line of options which said load normally or repair or something and others which I've forgotten.

To my relief it loaded and appears to be running OK.

As i write i am listening to Beethoven's Moonlight sonata on You Tube as I've just learned the piece and like to hear a real pianist play it.

Maybe its going to be OK although I loaded it alongside XP as it offered a choice on booting although it actually goes straight into Mint but I can live with that.

Thanks to everyone who responded but my view hasn't changed that much it's still a more fraught process than installing Windows but if it keeps working I'll
stick with it.

Wonder why Mint 14 won't load at all? I think i'll give that a miss.

Regards to all, but I may be back!

[The-Wizard]

Like others i find the title a little misleading, my daughter a staunch windows user asked me to install my operating system on her laptop about 6 months ago as her windows had thrown yet another wobbly, having done this and finding all her lost files and pictures prior to installation she was impressed, so far she has not had any problems in use or stability, her daughter [our 6 yr old granddaughter] has a laptop i keep here for her to use, I set it up with mint 9 lxde originally, before her last visit i changed it to mint 14 cinnamon without asking she was able to switch on find and use her programs and before departing switch off..

now if my daughter can use it without problem and granddaughter can use it there cant be a lot wrong

wizard

[cicero01]

Like others i find the title a little misleading, my daughter a staunch windows user asked me to install my operating system on her laptop about 6 months ago as her windows had thrown yet another wobbly, having done this and finding all her lost files and pictures prior to installation she was impressed, so far she has not had any problems in use or stability, her daughter [our 6 yr old granddaughter] has a laptop i keep here for her to use, I set it up with mint 9 lxde originally, before her last visit i changed it to mint 14 cinnamon without asking she was able to switch on find and use her programs and before departing switch off..

now if my daughter can use it without problem and granddaughter can use it there cant be a lot wrong

wizard

Using it wasn't the problem getting the thing to install properly was the problem!

[The-Wizard]

only time i have had that problem was with either a corrupted download or burn to disc

[homerscousin]

People, I have only been running Linux since July 2012 and I can say a few generalitities. #1 Distro does make a difference. Some distros do run better on certain hardware than others, and this saves you from troubleshooting the why-nots.#2 Linux is open source and free, holy crap, spend a little time learning what it is all about. #3 Some things don't work so well in Linux, like sound and video (tearing and sincronization), and power management. Some can be fixed, some can't. #4 Linux will, maybe unfortunately, force you to be a better computer user. If you can't or won't even learn basic terminal commands, use Windows. Linux is not for those who want everything handed to them on the silver platter. It's for those that want to learn and feel a need to contribute to an opperating system that can be the best that YOU want it to be. How much motivation do you have?

I'm waiting on the new KDE to see how animated wallpapers turns out. Just didn't have the expertise to get the old stuff a 'workin.

[chiefjim]

Having been "persuaded" by a magazine I read to give Linux a try I have spent some hours attempting to do just that.

I tried Ubuntu a few weeks ago but to no avail so recently managed to load Mint 13.

Every time I tried to start it it gave error messages and I had to start all over again eventually after it hadut "repaired" something I got in and it seemed to be OK except that it didn't recognise an external HDD I have.

But having to re-boot several times before it would start up I then thought maybe 14 would be an improvement on 13 after perhaps ironing out errors maybe but that is even worse it won't load at all.

It is clear to me as an amateur that Linux is still very much for "experts" who have sufficient knowledge to work around problems but for the uninitiated it is simply a pain.

Until such time as Mint or any other Linux OS literally runs straight from the box (so to speak) it will remain a niche system.

A difficult comparison since items like W7 run "straight from the box" is because someone else already installed it. Anyone who has tried installing XP or W7 from scratch knows it can be a challenge. Generally installing a OS you're already familiar with is always easier than working with something else. As evidenced when you said later in this thread:

"After about 50 minutes it said it had finished and asked if I wanted to carry on testing or restart.

Perhaps foolishly as it said it had finished I took out the DVD and it promptly threw a wobbler! I wasn't pleased."

Amateur mistakes for sure. You're not alone though. I know at least one computer program analyst that got thrown during partitioning because the screen said DO NOT USE. He thought it was an instruction not to use, instead being one of several available choices.

[AnonKS]

When installing ubuntu for the first time, I ejected the disc too. Totally understandable noob mistake

Other than that, I had a problem with kvm being "off" in my bios by default. Quick fix. Then installing AMD microbits. 30 seconds on google, 10 seconds in terminal, fixed. After a week on mint 14, I get 0 error messages, and everything just flows. Love it. I have to say, I've had more problems in the past with xp and win7 installation than with linux.
And after some getting used to, I find doing certain tasks in the terminal to be way faster than with a wizard. Anybody else feel that way, too?

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