[SOLVED] About LMDE repositories and softwares

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[SOLVED] About LMDE repositories and softwares

Postby crazyg4merz on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:10 pm

First, I'm sorry if this question is asked before but I just can't find it from searching this forum and google. I'm now a Linux Mint 14 Nadia user and planning to test out the Debian based version of Linux Mint. But there are some things that I don't understand about the softwares in LMDE based on what I read in http://packages.linuxmint.com/list.php?release=Debian that most of the packages are older than what I have now in LM14. For instance, I'm now having some unofficial PPAs for some softwares I like VLC-stable-daily, Mozilla-Next, Hotot-team, cairo-dock, caffeine. Those are my most used softwares that I can't live without and some of them are not even available in LMDE repositories (caffeine, hotot, and cairo-dock; correct me if I'm wrong because I really never used debian before). I saw that the Mozilla is still in v17 which I'm now already in v19 on my LM14.
And based on what I read in LMDE FAQ in this forum, it says that we are adviced to not adding any PPA which is specially made for Ubuntu. So what can I do to have my needs for them? And i know some of u may think that I have to just compile those packages from source, I think I won't. The problem is I don't want to browse for their website everytime and compile it again and again as it will require a lot of efforts for a newbie like me. I want to just do a apt-get update & apt-get upgrade commands to get latest packages for what I use everyday (I don't need all, just those I've mentioned above).
I apology once again if I wrote something wrong here and anything, but I really don't mean any harm. Thanks in advance for those who can help me with my questions :)
Last edited by crazyg4merz on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About LMDE repositories and softwares

Postby zerozero on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:13 pm

if your computing experience relies that heavily in ppa's than lmde (or debian) is not your distro. sorry but the short answer is this.

elaborating a bit more:
1- the packages you see in that address are just a part of all the immense debian repo (to be specific those are the mint additions to the debian base upon which lmde is build)
2- debian testing (the debian release lmde tracks) is at the moment in deep freeze meaning that there's no new development, only bug fixes; the development is being made in sid/experimental.
3- if you follow the default update-pack policy you'll notice everytime a new ubuntu-based mint ed. is released that lmde is behind in pkgs freshness (let's put it this way :D ), then during the 6 months life span of the distro (where nothing changes much) lmde catches up (if we are lucky and have an UP in the meantime :P )
4- there's ways to keep lmde more up-to-date, but honestly i don't recommend it for beginners.
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Re: About LMDE repositories and softwares

Postby crazyg4merz on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:28 pm

zerozero wrote:if your computing experience relies that heavily in ppa's than lmde (or debian) is not your distro. sorry but the short answer is this.

elaborating a bit more:
1- the packages you see in that address are just a part of all the immense debian repo (to be specific those are the mint additions to the debian base upon which lmde is build)
2- debian testing (the debian release lmde tracks) is at the moment in deep freeze meaning that there's no new development, only bug fixes; the development is being made in sid/experimental.
3- if you follow the default update-pack policy you'll notice everytime a new ubuntu-based mint ed. is released that lmde is behind in pkgs freshness (let's put it this way :D ), then during the 6 months life span of the distro (where nothing changes much) lmde catches up (if we are lucky and have an UP in the meantime :P )
4- there's ways to keep lmde more up-to-date, but honestly i don't recommend it for beginners.


Thanks for your answer. So you mean that I just can't add any repository to the source list? So what can I do to have those which are not in the repo? Hotot and caffeine for instance? The 3rd answer means the UP will catch up to the newest version when released? So I will have Firefox 19.0 immediately from 17.0 when it released?
Can you explain it to me your 4th answer? Maybe I can take my time understanding it. Beginners can learn ain't it? :)
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Re: About LMDE repositories and softwares

Postby zerozero on Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:15 pm

you shouldn't add any ppa, most of the time debian provides answers (in the end of the day most of the packages ubuntu ships come from debian)

hotot http://packages.debian.org/search?suite ... ords=hotot

vlc
Code: Select all
zerozero@deb-kde ~/Documents $ apt policy vlc
vlc:
  Installed: 1:2.0.5-dmo1
  Candidate: 1:2.0.5-dmo1
  Version table:
 *** 1:2.0.5-dmo1 0
        500 http://www.deb-multimedia.org/ testing/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     2.0.3-4 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages

FF is a peculiar situation because is not shipped by debian itself, its provided by mint so we are "tided" to mint's release cycle but we have
http://mozilla.debian.net/ that provides iceweasel (exactly the same as FF but without the branding) from where you can get
Code: Select all
zerozero@deb-kde ~/Documents $ apt policy iceweasel
iceweasel:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 20.0~a2+20130111042017-1
  Version table:
     20.0~a2+20130111042017-1 0
        500 http://mozilla.debian.net/ experimental/iceweasel-aurora amd64 Packages
     10.0.12esr-1 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages


funny enough the only pkg that i see some problems (from the ones you listed above) is caffeine because the latest releases are too much ubuntu specific and last time i tried (some time ago i have to confess) the only deb that i managed to make work was from 1.x series (there was some kind of missing dep in the 2.x series as far as i can recall)
https://launchpad.net/~caffeine-developers/+archive/ppa

as for my point n 4 :D of course, we are always learning
lmde tracks testing (but with snapshots for increased stability), for me personally this is too stable and boring :mrgreen: so my day-to-day system is tracking testing (which is very stable most of the time) and have always at least one system with sid (that one sometimes rocks the table but it's a great system as well)

if you want a boring/rock solid system, lmde with the default repos is the perfect answer.
each "ladder" you move up you are making a trade-off: more cutting edge, less stable :P
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Re: About LMDE repositories and softwares

Postby crazyg4merz on Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:29 am

zerozero wrote:you shouldn't add any ppa, most of the time debian provides answers (in the end of the day most of the packages ubuntu ships come from debian)

hotot http://packages.debian.org/search?suite ... ords=hotot

vlc
Code: Select all
zerozero@deb-kde ~/Documents $ apt policy vlc
vlc:
  Installed: 1:2.0.5-dmo1
  Candidate: 1:2.0.5-dmo1
  Version table:
 *** 1:2.0.5-dmo1 0
        500 http://www.deb-multimedia.org/ testing/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     2.0.3-4 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages

FF is a peculiar situation because is not shipped by debian itself, its provided by mint so we are "tided" to mint's release cycle but we have
http://mozilla.debian.net/ that provides iceweasel (exactly the same as FF but without the branding) from where you can get
Code: Select all
zerozero@deb-kde ~/Documents $ apt policy iceweasel
iceweasel:
  Installed: (none)
  Candidate: 20.0~a2+20130111042017-1
  Version table:
     20.0~a2+20130111042017-1 0
        500 http://mozilla.debian.net/ experimental/iceweasel-aurora amd64 Packages
     10.0.12esr-1 0
        500 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ testing/main amd64 Packages


funny enough the only pkg that i see some problems (from the ones you listed above) is caffeine because the latest releases are too much ubuntu specific and last time i tried (some time ago i have to confess) the only deb that i managed to make work was from 1.x series (there was some kind of missing dep in the 2.x series as far as i can recall)
https://launchpad.net/~caffeine-developers/+archive/ppa

as for my point n 4 :D of course, we are always learning
lmde tracks testing (but with snapshots for increased stability), for me personally this is too stable and boring :mrgreen: so my day-to-day system is tracking testing (which is very stable most of the time) and have always at least one system with sid (that one sometimes rocks the table but it's a great system as well)

if you want a boring/rock solid system, lmde with the default repos is the perfect answer.
each "ladder" you move up you are making a trade-off: more cutting edge, less stable :P


Thank you so much zerozero. You really helped me a lot with your answers. Now I see there's no such thing that the softwares in lmde is so far away like I imagined. Now that I've checked from packages.debian.org (just know there's a packages searcher for debian,lol), I saw they are all there (except caffeine like u wrote) and they are not so old, and I saw there is an alternative if I really want to take the risk (using sid, most of them are in the same version like I have now).
I think I will download the lmde iso as soon as they updated it to UP6 now. But now, I'm wondering what alternative do I have to get my screensaver/blackscreen disabled when playing vlc without caffeine? And another one, does the lmde team leaked some ETA about the new ISO release? It's already January 2013 as promised and still no news about it :(
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Re: About LMDE repositories and softwares

Postby zerozero on Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:52 pm

you're welcome :D
crazyg4merz wrote:(using sid, most of them are in the same version like I have now).
this has to be said :lol: sid is a amazing learning school, really forces you to get your hands on the system and either you break or you come out of there knowing a lot more about linux.
but don't be fooled :wink: sid demands some time, some reading.

you must have some minutes per day to maintain your system and then the rest to enjoy it

you have to be aware that it can break and accept downtime, the reward being that you have a fast, light, challenging system (if this is not what you're looking for don't jump in)

as for the 2 additional questions:
- assuming that you'll be using cinnamon this applet http://cinnamon-spices.linuxmint.com/applets/view/59 apparently does the same as caffeine (i say apparently because i never tried it) but anyway you can d/l any of the 1.x series and install it with gdebi (the features differences aren't that much afaik) worked for me in gnome-shell

- the new iso is scheduled for this month indeed (waiting for it as well :lol: )
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Re: About LMDE repositories and softwares

Postby crazyg4merz on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:21 pm

zerozero wrote:you're welcome :D
crazyg4merz wrote:(using sid, most of them are in the same version like I have now).
this has to be said :lol: sid is a amazing learning school, really forces you to get your hands on the system and either you break or you come out of there knowing a lot more about linux.
but don't be fooled :wink: sid demands some time, some reading.

you must have some minutes per day to maintain your system and then the rest to enjoy it

you have to be aware that it can break and accept downtime, the reward being that you have a fast, light, challenging system (if this is not what you're looking for don't jump in)

as for the 2 additional questions:
- assuming that you'll be using cinnamon this applet http://cinnamon-spices.linuxmint.com/applets/view/59 apparently does the same as caffeine (i say apparently because i never tried it) but anyway you can d/l any of the 1.x series and install it with gdebi (the features differences aren't that much afaik) worked for me in gnome-shell

- the new iso is scheduled for this month indeed (waiting for it as well :lol: )


Yeah I understand. I'll try with testing repo first. And will change it to Sid if I'm ready for it. Read it somewhere said that we can change from testing to Sid or testing to stable but can't change back to testing or stable after changing it to Sid (will break everything like it said). You really helped me so much, zerozero. Thank you.
Now I get what I asked for, so this thread will be marked as SOLVED. :)
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Re: [SOLVED] About LMDE repositories and softwares

Postby zerozero on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:38 pm

it's easy to climb the ladder (easy so to speak)
Code: Select all
update-packs >> testing >> sid

the way down is a nightmare, not supported by any package management tool and likely to break your install
i've put together a small guide for situations like this viewtopic.php?f=201&t=123323
hope you find it useful
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