New features for Elyssa KDE

[joutlan]

Picasa is a standard must have app anymore.

In my world Picasa sucks moose! (In Swedish that is NOT a compliment!)

LOL....many of us like it just because we use Gmail and it integrates nicely....a convenient and fast means to import from flash and to send out photos..right click a photo, select email, and up comes gmail with the pic(s) attached..that's all. It's nice to have only for those functions. I use Gimp to edit, etc. What sucks moose about that? Many, many people use Picasa because of those reasons.

EDIT: Picasa is in the repos, sorry FORGET THAT recommendation.....changed my mind totally!

[joutlan]

All this is looking good, the recommended menu too even though I like Tasty Menu. RSSOwl really should be added to replace Akregator IMO. A wonderful program. I've added RSSOwl myself and Synaptic thanks to help from this board. Man, KDE4.xx....what about it? It's just too good to bypass? Even if it's a 'little' buggy?

[Zwopper]

I can make some sounds if you like, I have some synthesizers just lying around!
Examples are here: My current logon sound - Mint upload 2 days only.
My current logoff sound - Mint upload 2 days only.

[joutlan]

Forget I recommended Picasa...something specific to some people like that shouldn't be added because it's in the REPO's (didn't realize that, sorry) However, RSSOwl is NOT, and this would be a great way for Mint to stand out a little, although the install is very easy as it doesn't require an intaller, rather extract copy the directory to /opt, and make a menu pointer. voila.

[Zwopper]

I can make some sounds if you like, I have some synthesizers just lying around!

I really like the sounds you made there
The point is that (personal tastes here) i find them way too long...
Imagine : i open my laptop while getting bored at some databases course (just an example ) and the sound is not muted and even pretty loud, i get a (very nice) 10 second-long sound for everybody to spot me....
Well, you know what i mean ?

So i suggest shorter stuff ala ubuntu but... not the same
Anyway thanks for your work (wallpapers included )

my two cents
ed

OK!
I'll make some nifty short sounds as well.
Thanks for your input!

[dracorX]

Elyssa is using KDE4, correct?
Is it possible to get rid of all the GTK apps so you can remove the GTK framework?

Also, scrap the GIMP. People who need it can pick it up from the repos. Lets try and aim for 1 software for 1 task. We dont need more then 1 media player.

Oh, Boo. Please Please Please Please replace the Tasty Menu with KBFX. Its an alternative KDE menu written in C++ and QT. We've already discussed this but I just want to remind you.

Heyho... Nice to read you want kbfx.!!! I like it as well - but as previously disclosed, as a team member there, i am biased...

[rec9140]

Another addition:

dmraid

Your welcome to your opinion of this or that motherboard RAID v. other RAID, I'm not here nor is this thread for that debate.

This question has come up 3 times in this week, plus mine a few weeks ago. Having this support on the DVD would be a benefit for those that have existing devices using these RAID options.

The more hardware support the better even for obscure or niche options is better. Theres alot of these motherboards out there and native support of them would be a plus.

[foggytown]

I can't imagine that KDE 4 is going to be usable in the next couple of months...maybe for Fatima.

A late beta of Firefox 3 is a must.

Kmail instead of Thunderbird has its appeal, although I would be one of those who install Thunderbird anyway.

I prefer Dolphin as my file manager but that is not critical as it is easy to install and configure.

Picasa is truly a sub-standard app on Linux. KDE comes with Digikam--a far superior, integrated, and feature rich alternative. Be sure to include the kipi plugins.

While I would prefer Koffice to OpenOffice, I don't think this is really an option at this point due to file format support. If OpenOffice is included, koffice should be dropped--menu overload does not a pretty desktop make.

I don't think having the installer fetch packages as part of the install in order to keep the install media small is a good idea. Some people still use dial up, a four hour install does not make anyone happy with their new desktop.

</opinion>

I truly enjoy the current KDE release, thank you for rescuing me from GNOMEland, Boo.

--john

[rec9140]

I don't think having the installer fetch packages as part of the install in order to keep the install media small is a good idea. Some people still use dial up, a four hour install does not make anyone happy with their new desktop.

</opinion>

I read somewhere about trying to keep it to a CD for dial up users. Why? ?

If I am still on dial up I am NOT about to download a 650MB CD ISO either. Talk about painful and unhappy.

DVD is the way to go.

Another thing the 1 app is better rule/theory/idea/plan is horrible.

I prefer KMail, and it should be included, as should another piece of software even if I find it a vile piece of crap.

Same goes for KOffice, include it AND OpenOffice. OpenOffice is a must simply due to the ability to use certain file formats. Its the only way I can use Linux at work. I can open office suite files all day long and do my thing, save them back to a shared drive and no one is the wiser.

One of the mantra's often repeated is choice, choice, choice in Linux from window mangers to other software, so lets not limit ourselves. A DVD has 4GB of space and lets fill it to the brim with the most useful and current versions available.

A couple of additions on the CLI side of things, please:

whois
traceroute

I needed to do a couple lookups recently, so I open a konsole session and do what I would take for granted to be in even the most basic of any OS and I get "not installed" errors. nslookup and ping are there, so whois and traceroute should be too.

These are must haves for any OS regardless of the target audience new to power user. These are basic functions.

On the X side of things:

Include:
pan - its about as close to Agent as things are going to get, and NO that does not mean drop knode either.

Don't hide anything in the menus. The tasty menu has grown on me, at first I was ready to rip it out and get back to a pure native KMenu, but for now have adapted.

Also the roadmap thats on the wiki for Elyssa, mentions removing amarok. I am not sure if that applies to the other version or the KDE version, or both, if it applies to the KDE version. Don't even think about it. ADD fine, removing anything NO.

[foggytown]

More thoughts...

I like the Tasty menu. It took some getting used to, I even reverted to the kmenu and checked out KBFX; but in the end I went back to Tasty. Now I am hooked.

If you decide to go with a green theme, something muted...like the colors on the forums rather than some in-your-face sort of green would be much preferred.

--john

[rec9140]

(I still suggest Kmail instead of Thunderbird, though)

At least we agree there.. KMail rules.

Boo said it would be nice to "get rid" of GTK apps, so that Mint KDE would fit on a CD and i fully agree with this.
That is why mint tools are planned to be ported to Qt.

rec9140: for CD vs DVD i find the comments here http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=158#comments are good arguments
(though DVD is not a problem for me in particular)

I am afraid any argument to limit to a CD is going to fall on deaf ears on me. DVD in this day and age is the dominant format. A lot of software for various OS' now only is available on DVD including the OS itself.

Just as I was forced to finally give way to winslop from DOS only, CD to DVD is a must.

A CD is just too limiting, just look at the debate here on what software should be in and/or out. This is wasting time that could be put forth to development.

GO DVD, and don't look back. Plenty of space to add what is needed to make LM KDE a winslop killer. Limiting to a CD is taking HUGE STEPS BACKSWARDS. More drivers, kernel modules, software, printer PPD etc. is what will make things alot easier for every one from converts to power users.

[akshunj]

I am afraid any argument to limit to a CD is going to fall on deaf ears on me. DVD in this day and age is the dominant format. A lot of software for various OS' now only is available on DVD including the OS itself.

Just as I was forced to finally give way to winslop from DOS only, CD to DVD is a must.

A CD is just too limiting, just look at the debate here on what software should be in and/or out. This is wasting time that could be put forth to development.

GO DVD, and don't look back. Plenty of space to add what is needed to make LM KDE a winslop killer. Limiting to a CD is taking HUGE STEPS BACKSWARDS. More drivers, kernel modules, software, printer PPD etc. is what will make things alot easier for every one from converts to power users.

I fully agree with this. The way in which Boo is integrating KDE over the Mint base is not quite the same as Kubuntu's KDE. This is part of the secret sauce, guys! In the end, it just won't fit on a CD-sized ISO unless it's missing things like OpenOffice, and other critical apps. Using DVD will allow Boo to do exactly what rec9140 is talking about in terms of adding to the robust nature of the distro. That said, I know that Boo is making some critical decisions about which apps to include by default. Just because he's got DVD space to play with doesn't mean he's intending to fill it with a lot of bloat. He's actively keeping up with this thread and there will be announcements after the first few pre-alpha builds regarding which apps made the final cut.

--Akshun J

[akshunj]

Yeah, and why not make a 5 CD distro, like Suse, or even 5 DVD... Oh let's be crazy, let's include the whole repositories.
Ok i'm going a little too far.

But the default software selection is what makes the identity of a distro.
I don't wanna end up uninstalling 20 unused softwares after a fresh install.

Don't forget that one of mint's goal is to provide a desktop that fits all usual needs out of the box and aimed at new linux users.
What better to get those users lost than by installing lots of softwares to do the same stuff ?

Agreed. Rest assured, Boo is working diligently to remove redundant programs, and stick to the one-app/one-task Mint philosophy.

--Akshun J

[rec9140]

Yeah, and why not make a 5 CD distro, like Suse, or even 5 DVD... Oh let's be crazy, let's include the whole repositories.
Ok i'm going a little too far.

Great, works for me! When I can I order the DVD's? ? ? And NO I am not kidding.

But the default software selection is what makes the identity of a distro.

I'll agree with that, but theres a problem lurking with that statement......

I don't wanna end up uninstalling 20 unused softwares after a fresh install.

Why do you need to uninstall them? ? ? ? I see plenty right now in LM KDE and other distros I will never use, no big deal.

I could turn this around too... I don't want to have to go around installing 20 needed apps to get up to speed to replace 20 useless apps.

Don't forget that one of mint's goal is to provide a desktop that fits all usual needs out of the box and aimed at new linux users.
What better to get those users lost than by installing lots of softwares to do the same stuff ?

And to meet that goal LM KDE needs to include as much software, drivers etc. to not scare off the new users.

Pop the DVD in a machine and it boots up and sound doesn't work or LAN or video doesn't work at the resolution they want and that potential convert is lost. Same goes with the higher end non gamer users... lack of support for example motherboard RAID, and they will go right back to where they were.

Most news users can handle choice a v. choice b for an email client, one will be better for them over the other.

To meet the above stated call there is just no way you can:

1) Limit to a CD
2) Limit software select to one app for one task.

[deadguy]

[Deadguy's opinion]
I like Mint KDE the way it is:

with the tasty menu.

with open office.

with the gimp.

with amarok,k3b,k9copy,thunderbird,firefox etc...

on a dvd.

and blue!!!
[/Deadguy's opinion]

[Fred]

Well, I tend to fall into the category of, if in doubt include it. I agree there should be some discrimination in the programs included, ie. They should all be quality programs that enable choice and reflect well on the distro. But the arguments between say Kmail and Thunderbird don't really work for me. This is going to be a KDE distro and Kmail is a quality KDE app., so it should be included. Thunderbird is a quality app. that many people prefer so I see no problem with it being included also. One person's bloat is another's must have app.

I keep a list of programs I like to use. One of the first things I do after installing a new distro and updating it, is to open a terminal and run:

sudo apt-get -y install program1 program2 program3 program4 ..... etc.

Then I make a list of the programs in the distro that I know I don't use and open a terminal and run:

sudo apt-get -y --purge remove program1 program2 program3 program4 ..... etc.

sudo apt-get autoclean

sudo apt-get clean

As an example, I don't use a mail program at all. I leave all my mail on-line on Google mail. So I would remove whatever mail programs are provided. I do play with a lot of photos. Mostly family stuff, nothing noteworthy. I use Gimp for the heavy lifting stuff. I use Krita for day to day touch up. It is faster and easier to use than Gimp. I use Kview to display pictures. It is simple and does what I want it to do. Anything else I remove. All the photo programs that purport to organize my photos, I don't need. I already have them organized the way I want.

Viola, now I have what I want/need and no bloat. From the perspective of a long time Linux user this works fine and so to me it really doesn't matter much what the default programs are. But to a relatively new user that doesn't really know what programs they like and want, more choice is better. They can always remove what they decide they don't want. If on the other hand they aren't given a choice, how are they to know that the program even exists, if it isn't included in the distro?

In this case more is better, up to a point of course.

Fred

[Fred]

I apologize if my post was offensive. I didn't say my opinion was a good and worthy one, only that it was mine. I will try to do better in the future.

Fred

[Fred]

No problem on my end what so ever my friend.

Fred

[rec9140]

Ok, i know that there's a lot of persons that won't agree with me, but i wanted to try to clarify what i meant.
This even appears to be some sterile debate (for instance, rec9140 seems to have a pretty much firm opinion about cd vs dvd).
This thread was originally created to suggest some *particular* apps, so let's stop polluting it with this and, if really needed, create another thread

You can't ask what software etc. should be included unless you have decided CD or DVD.

I am afraid its time to agree to disagree and that its clear that LM KDE and I are not on the same path and its time to part ways. Its too bad, because LM KDE solved a lot of issues for me, to the point I installed it and switched cold turkey.

Its clear that based on some replies that appear to have inside info CD is the direction, one app/one task and some other things.

Its been great, but its clear its time to move on.

[Fred]

rec9140,

Don't make hasty decisions based on a theoretical debate my friend. Boo seemed to do a pretty good job last time, I think. Certainly better than most, don't you think?

There is no reason to believe he will suddenly do an about face and put out a rotten distro that deserves to be dumped, is there?

Everybody deserves the benefit of the doubt. Especially someone like Boo that worked so hard and did a very good job on the last release, and just seems to be looking in all directions for ways to improve even more.

Fred