Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base ?

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Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base ?

Postby 0xnak on Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:58 pm

With Canonical's push to make Ubuntu a universal, every-device OS (IMO, at the detriment of the desktop experience), as well as further distancing itself from other distro's via Canonical-developed software resulting in fragmentation, will the main edition of Mint ever break-away from being Ubuntu-based and become it's own thing? Perhaps some merger of the main and LMDE editions? I am currently using LMDE and love it, but I know it is not at all the main focus of the mint team. I'm just curios.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby robert3242 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 9:19 am

I may be wrong, but I'll be surprised if they do. Debian and Ubuntu get a lot of the real scut-work done when it comes to assembling a full distro. I don't like the direction Canonical's going with its desktop environment either; in fact, I think it's as ridiculous as Microsoft's new Windows 8 from the point of view of a desktop PC user. But if the Mint development team were to strike out completely on their own, there'd be a massive increase in their workload. As I said, I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that the Mint development team isn't all that large to begin with.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby MALsPa on Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:32 am

Considering all the Ubuntu-bashing that goes on, it's kinda funny how successful Ubuntu-based Mint has turned out to be.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby robert3242 on Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:45 pm

MALsPa wrote:Considering all the Ubuntu-bashing that goes on, it's kinda funny how successful Ubuntu-based Mint has turned out to be.


There's no question in my mind that Mint's developers would have a tougher job without Ubuntu, and the Ubuntu developers would have a much more difficult job without Debian. All three, IMHO, are good distros, depending on what one is looking for and depending on one's priorities.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby InkKnife on Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:05 pm

Ubuntu bashing gets a little out of hand sometimes. I don't much care for the direction Canonical is going in a lot of areas but they also do a large amount of very good, very important, development work that the entire community benefits from. Mint would not be as good as it is had Ubuntu done a poor job of developing the base.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby dee. on Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:01 pm

Well, there's a reason for the Ubuntu bashing, and that's because Ubuntu sometimes does very stupid things, such as Mir.

Also, they take credit for other people's work and present it as their own, which is understandably causing a lot of sore feelings from lots of people...
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby catweazel on Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:54 pm

robert3242 wrote:from the point of view of a desktop PC user.

It's funny how die-hard, stick-in-the-mud traditionalists never actually see the writing on the wall.

That comment isn't directed at you, btw. It's just a general observation.
IDC's Worldwide Smart Connected Device Tracker estimated that worldwide tablet shipments will climb to 190 million units this year, up 48.7 percent over 2012, and surpass shipments of desktop computers, which are expected to decline 4.3 percent to 142 million.

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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby InkKnife on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:40 am

catweazel wrote:
robert3242 wrote:from the point of view of a desktop PC user.

It's funny how die-hard, stick-in-the-mud traditionalists never actually see the writing on the wall.

That comment isn't directed at you, btw. It's just a general observation.
IDC's Worldwide Smart Connected Device Tracker estimated that worldwide tablet shipments will climb to 190 million units this year, up 48.7 percent over 2012, and surpass shipments of desktop computers, which are expected to decline 4.3 percent to 142 million.

source

The increasing popularity of touch devices is completely irrelevant to desktop users. I do not dispute that Linux needs touch oriented Desktop environments but regardless of the popularity of touch devices we will still need good desktop DEs.
It is not being a stick in the mud to point out the obvious, that touch devices and desktops and laptops need different DEs. Canonical is wrong thinking that you can have one universal DE and Microsoft is wrong with Win8.
Mint has it right, a desktop DE for desktops.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby catweazel on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:59 am

InkKnife wrote:The increasing popularity of touch devices is completely irrelevant to desktop users.

That may or may not be so, but to Microsoft and Canonical, your opinion doesn't count.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby InkKnife on Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:54 am

catweazel wrote:
InkKnife wrote:The increasing popularity of touch devices is completely irrelevant to desktop users.

That may or may not be so, but to Microsoft and Canonical, your opinion doesn't count.

I wouldn't expect MS or Canonical to care about my opinion. They can go wandering off any way they want. I do not use any Microsoft products at all, I don't use Ubuntu, heck, I even kicked OSX to the curb about a year and a half ago. I do not do business with companies I think are headed in a direction I don't want to follow.
I like the Mint teams focus on making the best desktop oriented DE they can and I believe that there will be a need for beautiful, efficient and excellently engineered desktops DEs for many years to come.
I am not complaining about either MS or Canonical.
I am just stating my opinion, born of 35 years of using computers, that I do not think either MS's or Canonical's plan for a unified DE across devices will work. Early indications are I am right. Adoption of Win8 has been abysmal, to the point that Microsoft hardware partners are openly blaming Win8 for causing a decline in new PC sales.
Canonical is making lots of noise about their phone plans but as yet don't seem to have attracted any hardware or carrier partners, mean while Ubuntu based distros like Mint are beginning to eclipse Ubuntu itself.
The unified DE idea is being rejected in the marketplace.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby craig10x on Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:14 pm

I always find it amusing when someone here says "i don't use ubuntu" well, you may not use it directly, but if you're running mint, then indeed you ARE running ubuntu...granted, it's a modified ubuntu but underneath, heck, guess what? it's STILL ubuntu! :wink: :D

And that is also true of all the other "ubuntu-based" distros, like pinguy, zorin, etc...in fact, the only version of mint where you can really say, i don't run ubuntu, is LMDE...
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby InkKnife on Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:08 pm

craig10x wrote:I always find it amusing when someone here says "i don't use ubuntu" well, you may not use it directly, but if you're running mint, then indeed you ARE running ubuntu...granted, it's a modified ubuntu but underneath, heck, guess what? it's STILL ubuntu! :wink: :D

And that is also true of all the other "ubuntu-based" distros, like pinguy, zorin, etc...in fact, the only version of mint where you can really say, i don't run ubuntu, is LMDE...

Of course you are right and while I may slag on Canonical for some of their choices I wish them no ill-will. Clearly they are doing a lot of great work otherwise there would not be so many really nice Ubuntu based distros.
Behind my complaining about the "Unity on everything" philosophy is a real concern for the future of Ubuntu. I do not think any universal DE approach is ever going to work and I do not want to see Ubuntu fail because that would effect the whole community.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby MALsPa on Sun Apr 14, 2013 3:48 pm

InkKnife wrote:Behind my complaining about the "Unity on everything" philosophy is a real concern for the future of Ubuntu. I do not think any universal DE approach is ever going to work and I do not want to see Ubuntu fail because that would effect the whole community.


I have no such concerns. Users can still take Ubuntu and run just about whatever DE or WM they want to run on it. Nobody has to be stuck with Unity if they don't like it.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby craig10x on Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:22 pm

I happen to like Unity, and i know malspa does also...but as he said, you can use ubuntu and still have many other options, such as cinnamon desktop session, cairo dock session, gnome 3 session, gnome 3 fallback session, to name a few...and then of course there are the community base variations like kubuntu, xubuntu, lubuntu...

Also, many who originally didn't care for unity and gave it another try and spent some time with it, realized it is actually a pretty neat desktop in itself...
After i left windows, i did spend about a year with mac before discovering linux, and in a way, unity reminds me a bit of when i ran the mac...it does have a kind of mac feel to it, with the dock and global menu...and a lot cheaper then the real thing :D

Though unity is designed to be used in multiple applications, unlike windows 8, it's pretty easy to use on a desktop...from what i have heard, windows 8 only shines when used on a touch device...i've worked with it on a desktop, and despite giving it a fair chance, didn't like it at all...

Ubuntu is a good base for mint to use, i don't think it would be as nice, if it went, say, debian directly...
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby dee. on Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:06 pm

craig10x wrote:I always find it amusing when someone here says "i don't use ubuntu" well, you may not use it directly, but if you're running mint, then indeed you ARE running ubuntu...granted, it's a modified ubuntu but underneath, heck, guess what? it's STILL ubuntu! :wink: :D

And that is also true of all the other "ubuntu-based" distros, like pinguy, zorin, etc...in fact, the only version of mint where you can really say, i don't run ubuntu, is LMDE...


Sorry, but I don't buy that argument. All the packages that are shipped with Ubuntu are free/open source software. Anyone can take that code and use it for their own project. From there it becomes a Ship of Theseus kind of deal. How many of the same packages do you need to have with a distro to be considered derivative? If you take a shovel, replace the handle, the shaft and the head, is it still the same shovel? And so on.
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Re: Will the main editions ever move away from a Ubuntu base

Postby craig10x on Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:34 pm

dee...i am sure if you even asked Clem directly, he would acknowledge that his distro is built upon the ubuntu base...has nothing to do with being open source or not...Clem makes a number of modifications, adds his desktop environment... adds in a package of codecs, adds a repo which contain certain mint related updates, but the main updates you get come directly from ubuntu...

To use an ice cream analogy...ubuntu is a vanilla bar with a chocolate coating, and mint is the same vanilla bar but has a different coating on top...underneath, they are both the same vanilla bar... :lol:

And to your analogy..yes, it's the same shovel with a different shaft and head...so it feels somewhat different, but both are based on the same shovel...
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