What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

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What if Linux Mint moved away from Ubuntu?

Postby Zorba on Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:46 pm

What do you think if Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever and develop a "from scratch" package base?
What if they develop LMDE instead for instance? :D :D
Last edited by xenopeek on Mon Dec 30, 2013 7:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Alarmist misleading title edited. Locked for inciting far too emotional and personal debate.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby 3fRI on Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:24 pm

A lot of folks depend on Ubuntu-based distros and Mint's strong suit is currently Ubuntu-based. Looking to the future, however, I'd welcome Mint dropping Ubuntu and going an LMDE or other non-Ubuntu route, such as Arch. 8)
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby catweazel on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:02 pm

Your signature induces headaches.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby MALsPa on Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:09 pm

TehGhodTrole wrote:Your signature induces headaches.


LOL!

+1!
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby Zorba on Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:09 am

Your signature looks like a worm :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby grizzler on Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:30 am

Press escape and the hurting stops (Escape stops annoying gifs everywhere...).
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby Orbmiser on Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:02 am

grizzler wrote:Press escape and the hurting stops (Escape stops annoying gifs everywhere...).


+1 Thanks for that. So tired of people that think animated gifs in forums is cool. When in fact just annoying.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby Zorba on Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:55 am

Orbmiser wrote:
grizzler wrote:Press escape and the hurting stops (Escape stops annoying gifs everywhere...).


+1 Thanks for that. So tired of people that think animated gifs in forums is cool. When in fact just annoying.
.


OHHHHHHH sorry guys got that from Ultimate Edition OZ forum administrator :D Thought it's cool :) I'll put something else then :D
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby zerozero on Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:44 am

Brahim,
you might consider (just a recommendation) changing the topic subject
Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

is misleading.
LinuxMint is not dropping Ubuntu as a base, you might want to reword that as wish (perfectly valid then)
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby kmb42vt on Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:59 pm

Brahim wrote:What do you think if Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever and develop a "from scratch" package base?
What if they develop LMDE instead for instance?


This just begs one simply question:

Why?

I see absolutely no reason to drop Ubuntu as the base for the main editions. Philosophical reasons don't count. :)
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby ahadDT on Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:09 pm

I use LMDE, and i seems to be a bit more stable and faster then Ubuntu, as there are so many bugs becuase ubuntu always has the latest software.

Though it would be nice to have stuff other than Debian, such as:

LMFE( Linux Mint Fedora Edition )
LMAE ( Linux Mint Arch Edition )
LMSE ( Linux Mint Slackware Edition )

This will give people more choices on Linux mint suitable for them.

But, I do think Linux Mint should try making their distro from scratch, straight from the kernel.
Here are some advantages:

Reduced system bloat.
Can be tuned exactly for Linux Mint
Faster.

Only problem is that Linux mint will:
Have to create a package manager of their own (mint-pkg install <insert package name here> :D)
LOTS of work and patience required.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby InkKnife on Thu Jun 13, 2013 5:58 pm

I have never understood what people are talking about when they say Mint ought to be based on something more stable. I have been using Mint for a year and a half and have never had a kernel panic, never, not once. This makes Mint considerably more stable than any version of Windows or OSX I have ever used.
How much more stable than "never crashes" can you get?
Debian, Fedora, Arch, etc are all basically server OSs which need a fair about of buffing to be really good on the desktop. Mint let the well funded Ubuntu do a lot of the heavey lifting so the very small team that develops Mint can attend to making it a great desktop OS that is so easy to use you don't have to be a Linux guru to run it.
There are dozens of distros which cater to the tinkering crowd, Mint is for people who don't want to have to fiddle with things to make them work. I switched to Mint because Apple is too evil for my tastes and Microsoft is both evil and incompetent. I just wanted a good desktop OS, which Mint provides and it is a very valuable asset that in Mint, you don't have to know anything about the terminal to enjoy the system.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby kurotsugi on Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:39 pm

InkKnife wrote:I have never understood what people are talking about when they say Mint ought to be based on something more stable. I have been using Mint for a year and a half and have never had a kernel panic, never, not once. This makes Mint considerably more stable than any version of Windows or OSX I have ever used.
How much more stable than "never crashes" can you get?
Debian, Fedora, Arch, etc are all basically server OSs which need a fair about of buffing to be really good on the desktop. Mint let the well funded Ubuntu do a lot of the heavey lifting so the very small team that develops Mint can attend to making it a great desktop OS that is so easy to use you don't have to be a Linux guru to run it.
There are dozens of distros which cater to the tinkering crowd, Mint is for people who don't want to have to fiddle with things to make them work. I switched to Mint because Apple is too evil for my tastes and Microsoft is both evil and incompetent. I just wanted a good desktop OS, which Mint provides and it is a very valuable asset that in Mint, you don't have to know anything about the terminal to enjoy the system.

if you keep track on this forum you'll found that this forum suddenly flooded with threads about mint15 bugs after it got released. it seems ubuntu becomes less stable and tends to buggy in their recent releases. that's why peoples want mint devs to use another distro as their base. nevertheless, they already heard and respond to it. aside from the main version we also have LMDE which based on debian as it's base.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby InkKnife on Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:19 pm

kurotsugi wrote:
InkKnife wrote:I have never understood what people are talking about when they say Mint ought to be based on something more stable. I have been using Mint for a year and a half and have never had a kernel panic, never, not once. This makes Mint considerably more stable than any version of Windows or OSX I have ever used.
How much more stable than "never crashes" can you get?
Debian, Fedora, Arch, etc are all basically server OSs which need a fair about of buffing to be really good on the desktop. Mint let the well funded Ubuntu do a lot of the heavey lifting so the very small team that develops Mint can attend to making it a great desktop OS that is so easy to use you don't have to be a Linux guru to run it.
There are dozens of distros which cater to the tinkering crowd, Mint is for people who don't want to have to fiddle with things to make them work. I switched to Mint because Apple is too evil for my tastes and Microsoft is both evil and incompetent. I just wanted a good desktop OS, which Mint provides and it is a very valuable asset that in Mint, you don't have to know anything about the terminal to enjoy the system.

if you keep track on this forum you'll found that this forum suddenly flooded with threads about mint15 bugs after it got released. it seems ubuntu becomes less stable and tends to buggy in their recent releases. that's why peoples want mint devs to use another distro as their base. nevertheless, they already heard and respond to it. aside from the main version we also have LMDE which based on debian as it's base.

I have no attachment to Ubuntu at all but I have to point out what a huge asset Mint gains by being package compatible with Ubuntu. Are the bugs from the Ubuntu base or are they being found in the Mint stuff?
I have not had any troubles but with the furious pace that Mint has been developing I would not be surprised if some bugs slipped through. My experience over the year and a half I have been using Mint is that there are always a few problem but they get ironed out with updates.
If Clem and team decide to move to a new base I wouldn't stand opposed but that seems a bit of an overreaction to one rocky release. Best spend some time determining where the bugs are before pushing for a really challenging solution like jumping bases.
We don't want to be using a shotgun to kill a fly.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby Zorba on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:14 am

InkKnife wrote:
kurotsugi wrote:I have not had any troubles but with the furious pace that Mint has been developing I would not be surprised if some bugs slipped through. My experience over the year and a half I have been using Mint is that there are always a few problem but they get ironed out with updates.
If Clem and team decide to move to a new base I wouldn't stand opposed but that seems a bit of an overreaction to one rocky release. Best spend some time determining where the bugs are before pushing for a really challenging solution like jumping bases.
We don't want to be using a shotgun to kill a fly.


I do agree with you :D I think Mint should maintain its compatibility with Ubuntu and I think Canonical should support the Mint project because this will only add to Ubuntu's popularity :D Always remember our enemies are OS X and MS Windows. I think Linux has beaten OS X and the only remaining foe is MS which I think Mint 15 has delivered the death blow to it :D
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby eanfrid on Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:45 am

Considering the new Ubuntu policy, where non-LTS releases are more than ever interim/experimental releases (6 months basic lifetime + 3 months overlapping the next release to just let you a few weeks to upgrade - or not). A smart move could be for Linux Mint to focus and use only Ubuntu LTS releases as a working base, ditching the interim Ubuntu releases.

During the 2 years interval between Ubuntu LTS, LM could then work on its own brand and custom tools. So the dev team could deliver a rolling release based on Ubuntu LTS backports and/or deliver its own branded "point" releases with the new versions of its own custom tools and layers like Cinnamon, MATE and Mint-specific features. Kind of a LMULE - Linux Mint Ubuntu-LTS Edition - with a better support cycle than LMDE has today.

NB: Fedora and Arch are not "server OSs", far from that: they lack the kernel tuning and default tight/secure config params to do so...
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby kmb42vt on Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:44 am

InkKnife wrote:I have no attachment to Ubuntu at all but I have to point out what a huge asset Mint gains by being package compatible with Ubuntu. Are the bugs from the Ubuntu base or are they being found in the Mint stuff? ...


Right now it looks like the instability, boot time freezes, no HDMI audio and such that are being reported are due to the mainline kernel that comes with the Ubuntu Raring (version 3.8.0-19). According to the latest Linux Mint Monthly News post, Clem has stated that this kernel should be replaced in the upcoming KDE and XFCE editions with mainline kernel 3.8.0-25 which should be available soon. From the post:

Although it was selected as default in Ubuntu 13.04, the 3.8.0-19 kernel used in Linux Mint 15 didn’t work as well as we’d have expected. Many people were unable to get the sound working through HDMI and some even experienced kernel panics and system freezes. A few workarounds were identified during the RC but the cause of the problem wasn’t clear to us so we spent time looking into this… we’ll vulgarize our findings on the Segfault blog and we’re likely to upgrade the kernel to 3.8.0-25 (up-to-date with upstream 3.8.13) in the upcoming KDE and Xfce editions.

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2369

This kernel will also be available as a "level 5" upgrade via MintUpdate in the Cinnamon and MATE editions of LM 15 when Ubuntu releases it. You'll have to temporarily enable level 5 updates in MintUpdate in order to upgrade to the new kernel when it's available. I assume there will be an announcement when this happens.

And there's always those folks who encounter video and wireless driver issues but that's typical for any Linux distro. Thankfully those kind of issues have now become the exception rather than the rule. :D
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby grimdestripador on Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:52 pm

Title is bait, and misleading. Good discussion.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby Frivolous on Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:50 pm

I'm really new to Linux Mint (I've only been using it for about two months now) but so far I haven't really had any of the issues on it that I used to have with Ubuntu. Maybe they'll show up in time though.
Also, I'd be quite interested in finding out what a Linux Mint Arch Edition would be like. Mint is my main OS right now, but I use Arch on the side, so combining them would probably turn out to be a pretty cool distribution.
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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu forever !!!!!!!!

Postby os2x on Sat Jun 15, 2013 8:59 pm

Hello Fellas, thought I'd try loading Lubuntu on a spare drive I had laying around here early this morning.
Had problems with it since it uses Ubuntu repository for updating. BigTime crash, so I decided to put LMDE
on the drive after wiping it and it was ok until I did an update. I suspect the updates came from Ubuntu? If
any of files are updates are from that repository I won't update! I ended up putting Mint 14 "Nadia" back on
that drive and it works good but I doubt if I will do an update if they are using Ubuntu for updates. On both
instances with the other systems, I had errors with files not found. When the system is running and then a
update is done, and afterwards the system won't even start showing a bunch of errors, it stands to reason,
something is badly wrong with the updates. I don't like Ubuntu and have used their system and won't go
back to it because of so many problems.

-Dennis
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