Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

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Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby mfluder on Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:28 am

Does anyone know if Mint 13 Maya iso will be updated to Ubuntu 12.04.2 base? I did a search and noticed a proposal for this idea languishing without much support. http://community.linuxmint.com/idea/view/2685 Anything going on with this?

I think a yearly iso update would be quite beneficial for the community. Imagine all of the updates that will be required if someone installs Maya after a few years. A professional distro like Mint needs to maintain professional quality installation DVDs so we can grab as many Windows/MAC users as possible. How about Linux Mint 13 SP1? :D

Seriously though. I have been giving out these DVDs like crazy in my little corner of the world. Mint has become mainstream guys, so why not give newcomers the best possible experience? I hope this topic gets noticed by someone who has some influence around here.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby karlchen on Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:54 pm

Hello, mfluder.
Does anyone know if Mint 13 Maya iso will be updated to Ubuntu 12.04.2 base? [...] I hope this topic gets noticed by someone who has some influence around here.

I am not a member of the main target group of your post, due to lack of influence.
Yet, I am a committed user of Mint 13 LTS and as such I do full heartedly support this idea.
I am afraid, however, our wish may not come true, due to lack of human resources, because if the MINT 13 Cinnamon ISOs get updated (32-bit, 64-bit), the Mate ISOs (32-bit, 64-bit) will have to be updated, too, and the Xfce ISOs (32-bit, 64-bit) and the KDE ISOs (32-bit, 64-bit).
But, hope dies last.


Cheers,
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby DataMan on Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:35 am

It is my understanding that the release version of all Mint (non-Debian) are frozen at the time of release. Incremental changes are picked up at the post install updates (as you referenced in your post). Between the LTS versions, there are periodic new Mint releases which will pick up all of the latest stable whizz bang stuffola. The same rule applies to the incremental releases as they are frozen at the time of release.

A large population of Mint users want and/or need stability in their ops (me included). The LTS offers a better approach to this need. Within LTS, you will still receive updates to the supporting libraries as well as some apps. When a new version of the ops system is released, there are usually (as in most of the time) problems with some apps/utilities etc.

If your root concern is not having the latest version of apps etc,, then you could either do a new install at each release of Mint or switch over to Debian Testing (a rolling distribution).

Just my opinion on the subject.

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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby mikemmm on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:19 am

No, I think that the point of this request (and several other identical ones in the past) is that the LTS version of Mint is still being recommended by Clem, and consequently is still being downloaded and installed by users. There are a tremendous number of updates for that original Mint 13 version; it takes quite a while to download and install them all immediately after a new install of Mint. Ubuntu updates its LTS iso's, keeping them much more up-to-date; it would be nice if Mint did the same. I realize that this is unlikely to happen due to the lack resources required to re-test each ISO, but it is a valid request.

The amount of time required to update a new system may be a trivial issue to most of us when installing on our own PC's, but at times it can be critical. I install Mint for other people (mostly family members), and usually I am pressed for time. I try to squeeze in an install of Mint in a much-too-short visit, and have occasionally had to leave an install in its original state with no updates. I have little confidence that the PC's owners ever update their machines, as they are not tech-savvy at all.

Another issue is actually more important and less of a convenience one - Mint 13 doesn't install properly on all machines due to its kernel. A good example is the Broadcom situation - I have one laptop that I can't install Mint 13 on, despite the publicized work-arounds. I can't even try Mint 14, since the laptop requires a non-PAE kernel despite having been bought in January 2006 (it has an AMD mobile Sempron processor.) I run Mint 9 Gnome and Mint 12 LXDE on it, but can't go any further. Fortunately, it's only one of five PC's I have (none are particularly new, though), so it's not all that important to me, but I'm sure that I'm not the only person who has an old PC that can't run a more modern and demanding version of Linux.

I've tried creating my own updated ISO's by following the "How to remaster/respin Linux Mint ISO images" tutorial, but it doesn't work for me (or for a number of other people, based on posts I've seen.) I've tried it several times over the past year, but I can't get the chroot terminal to open properly.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby flyboy1565 on Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:31 am

On the systems I've put it on, and mint 14 updates only took at most 10 to 15 min.

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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby karlchen on Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:47 pm

flyboy1565 wrote:On the systems I've put it on, and mint 14 updates only took at most 10 to 15 min.
Great. Only thing is we are talking about Mint 13 LTS, not Mint 14.
And no matter what kind of super computer you have got and what kind of super high speed internet connection (as a home user?) downloading and installing 500+ software packages on Mint 13 will take a lot of time. (Anything below 60 min. will be wishful thinking.) And after the downloaded Mint 13 ISO has been installed (state May 2012), Mint Update will detect 500+ updated software packages.
I will not recommend ignoring them. I will not recommend starting with an outdated state of Mint 13. So having an installation ISO which reflects the current state of Mint 13 would be really convenient. And in the end it might save bandwidth on the repository servers, because we do not have to download 500+ software packages.

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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby Adelante on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:41 pm

Yeah, I was surprised by this only last week. I had dropped back from 14 to 13 because I couldn't get Netflix desktop to work properly on Cinnamon 14 (working perfectly on 13-yay) and ran into the 500+ updates. A fresh iso every so often would make sense. I'm not complaining for myself. I don't care about the extra time. But this seems like a painful introduction to new users of the LTS release.

karlchen wrote:And after the downloaded Mint 13 ISO has been installed (state May 2012), Mint Update will detect 500+ updated software packages.
I will not recommend ignoring them. I will not recommend starting with an outdated state of Mint 13. So having an installation ISO which reflects the current state of Mint 13 would be really convenient.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby mfluder on Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:56 am

wow. I think I touched a nerve here. Great posts everybody. Thanks for supporting the proposal. Earlier in the thread someone fluffed off this issue by suggesting a new install each time or switch to Debian rolling updates. I think the point here is that Mint LTS versions should keep up with the Ubuntu package that they are based on. Doing a fresh install each time is tedious, especially when family members are involved. :D (I did a hurried Mint 13 install for my wife, so I know what I am talking about) We use Mint 13 for the stability provided by the Ubuntu package base and update scheme. It makes the perfect everyday OS. For this reason, switching to Debian rolling updates is completely out of the question. After all, who wants to be on the cutting edge of released updates on their main machine? Who wants their family members on the cutting edge of updates? Not me. I know all the developers are super busy perfecting future versions of Mint, but I still wonder what the official response is to this topic.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby tdockery97 on Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:50 am

I have no clout, but I also support the idea of incrementally updated iso files for the LTS version. Ubuntu does it with 12.04 every six months. They obviously update the LTS when they have finished/released the next interim release. It would really make it easy on newer users. Some have bandwidth limitations that won't permit them to download both an iso and an equivalent size in updates. I'm guessing that the limited number of Mint developers has more to do with it than a lack of desire to give us updated LTS versions.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby mfluder on Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:42 pm

Does any Linux Mint administrator type person want to chime in on the subject? Maybe someone who has Clem's direct line. :D

You know, I wonder if Clem even reads these posts. For the love of God, please notice this thread and take action. I can't go through another Mint 13 LTS install +100s of additional updates. Please let us know if this is seriously being considered or if these comments are just a waste of time.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby mfluder on Wed Mar 20, 2013 1:36 pm

Just for the record. I am installing Linux Mint 13 for a coworker at this very moment. His windows partition was overrun with malware, so he agreed to try Linux Mint. Unfortunately, I won't be able to give him the machine today because of the all the updates that are required. We have a very slow connection here at work. 513 UPDATES or 405 MB to download for a fresh Linux Mint 13 LTS install! I'll be installing these updates for the rest of the day! :evil:

It also took 20 minutes to download language packs. Why am I even waiting for language packs which I will never use? Can this be made optional during the install?
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby Temporary Saint on Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:37 am

Good question about the language packs. :)

Also, (I dont think his was mentioned yet) Canonical announced yesterday that non-LTS releases will be supported for only 9 months instead of 18. The likelihood of x.x.2 releases for non-LTS versions will be reduced to pretty much zero. My guess, anyway.

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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby mfluder on Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:23 am

Yeah, the language pack thing always bothered me. I wish something could done about that.

Recently, I read an article about the possibility of ubuntu moving to rolling updates.

http://www.zdnet.com/ubuntu-shuttlewort ... 000012503/

I hope this never happens, but my feeling is that they are moving in that direction regardless.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby J_C on Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:59 pm

I agree, ISO should be updated from time to time, being new to Mint I'm surprised to find that it's not... This is all the more important now that LTS releases are supported for 5 years. Imagine how many updates there's going to be by April 2017!! :shock:

For people with fast connections it's just an inconvenience, but many Linux users (especially in developing countries) download their ISO somewhere other than at home.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby Reorx on Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:21 am

I have to agree as well. I think it is a good idea to update the ISO (for LTS versions) about once per year. I also think it would be nice to have all the ISOs available for D/L online for folks who might prefer an older ISO for some obscure reason.
Last edited by Reorx on Wed May 01, 2013 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby mfluder on Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:09 am

Thanks for the support Reorx. Glad to see that you are not neutral on this issue. :D
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby Reorx on Wed May 01, 2013 8:14 pm

I just did an install (dual boot) of LM13C64 on my wife's Win7 laptop that she (until recently) used to use for gaming... The install went smoothly but the update was a bit long-ish (significantly longer than the install)... and the link is a 6 mbps connection, CPU is a badass I7, RAM = 8 GB, etc. An up-to-date ISO could have made my life easier... but hey, what's an hour (give or take) amongst friends?!... :lol:
Last edited by Reorx on Fri May 03, 2013 8:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby excollier on Thu May 02, 2013 8:56 am

LMDE installs much faster, far fewer updates to download.
I dropped LM 13 Cinnamon in favour of LMDE Cinnamon, to all intents and purposes (to me anyway) it's like using the same os, only with rolling updates and it works slightly faster.
I cannot really fault it in the short time I have been using it.
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby mfluder on Thu May 02, 2013 1:50 pm

We covered this in a previous post. Sure LMDE installs faster, but Installing a distro with rolling updates is simply not an option. We need the stability of a long term release with well tested updates for our everyday machines. Also, we need to get non-tech savvy friends and family away from Microsoft products as soon as possible. Its unthinkable to migrate those new users onto an advanced distro like debian while having to support problems that will arise from installing cutting edge updates. I'm upset that we are not getting an answer to thread from LM admins. I thought this forum was about openess. Where is the support here??? I'm so disgusted that I don't even want to post here anymore. :evil:
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Re: Mint 13 LTS iso update and ubuntu 12.04.2

Postby excollier on Thu May 02, 2013 3:22 pm

Sorry. I have a pretty slow connection, and just have to wait while an iso installs and then takes another hour or more to get updates.
But it's worth the wait with Mint, IMHO.
Anyway, I'll say no more.
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