Virtualisation section in forums

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Does Linux Mint need a "Virtualization" forum?

Yes
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Maybe
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Virtualiwhat?
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Total votes : 23

Virtualisation section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:06 am

Linux Mint offers some nice virtualisation features and packages, be it VirtualBox, kvm or Xen.

Unfortunately there is no dedicated "Virtualisation" section in the forum, such as the one found on the Ubuntu forum here.

On the Linux Mint forum, relevant virtualisation-related information is spread all over the forum and difficult to locate. Where does one post VirtualBox, Xen, or KVM related questions? I find myself more often looking in the Ubuntu and Debian forums for related information. This is a shame as Linux Mint is relatively easy to use with virtualisation.

If you feel the same way, please vote for a dedicated "Virtualisation" section.
Last edited by powerhouse on Thu Apr 24, 2014 2:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby xenopeek on Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:53 am

Do you mean with Linux Mint as a host or as a guest OS?
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Fri Sep 21, 2012 1:38 pm

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Do you mean with Linux Mint as a host or as a guest OS?


Host OS.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby Quirken on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:08 pm

This would be really nice. I'm using LMDE as my host (dom0) for XEN, and the relevant threads are indeed quite scattered.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby squeezy on Sun Oct 28, 2012 6:29 pm

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Do you mean with Linux Mint as a host or as a guest OS?


I think a Virtualization forum would be a good addition, but don't limit it to host or guest, include all virt questions/how-tos, etc. Subject lines should make it clear whether it's a host or guest question.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:17 pm

squeezy wrote:
Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Do you mean with Linux Mint as a host or as a guest OS?


I think a Virtualization forum would be a good addition, but don't limit it to host or guest, include all virt questions/how-tos, etc. Subject lines should make it clear whether it's a host or guest question.


A section for Linux Mint as guest would be OK, but the focus should be on LM as host.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby gordon.cooke on Sat Apr 06, 2013 10:26 pm

I definately think we need a forum for Virtualization!
It was hard for me to find info and I was not sure where to post my questions. I found powerhouse's Xen how to through Google.

powerhouse wrote:In fact, it would be even better to have a "Virtualization" topic with sub-topics on the available virtualization technologies, such as "Xen", "VirtualBox" and "kvm".


Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Do you mean with Linux Mint as a host or as a guest OS?

I think both host and gues should be covered. But guest info could probably be seperated into it's own sub-topic. That would really help people find the info tehy need/want easiest I think.

Virtualization
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-Mint as Guest
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby catweazel on Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:12 am

gordon.cooke wrote:I definately think we need a forum for Virtualization!

-1

People may well think that, but where are the statistics that prove such a forum is viable?
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:22 pm

catweazel wrote:
gordon.cooke wrote:I definately think we need a forum for Virtualization!

-1

People may well think that, but where are the statistics that prove such a forum is viable?


Are 10,869 visitors to the "HOW-TO make dual-boot obsolete using XEN VGA passthrough" enough to satisfy your statistics? Let alone the many virtualization questions all over the forum.

A subforum om virtualization would greatly help organize that information.

EDIT: 10,874 visitors, 5 minutes later.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby xenopeek on Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:19 pm

There are other topics of course, but overall it doesn't look like there are many questions for support on virtualization. So we're not currently considering a separate forum for it (yet). We keep an eye on the kinds of topics we get, and as we'll likely restructure the forums later this year we will revisit it then.

I've stickied your topic as it seems it is the most in-depth how to and discussion :wink:
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:27 pm

xenopeek wrote:There are other topics of course, but overall it doesn't look like there are many questions for support on virtualization. So we're not currently considering a separate forum for it (yet). We keep an eye on the kinds of topics we get, and as we'll likely restructure the forums later this year we will revisit it then.

I've stickied your topic as it seems it is the most in-depth how to and discussion :wink:


Thanks for looking at the suggestion. One reason you won't find many support questions for virtualization is the lack of a dedicated place to ask these questions. Back when I was looking for information, I went elsewhere to the Ubuntu forum or even overclock.net. I almost got to the point where I gave up on Linux Mint altogether.

The problem with virtualization is that it doesn't fit into any other category. Perhaps you have a suggestion where to place virtualization questions/support issues in the current forum structure? Or where to place information and suggestions on this topic?

Thanks for making my thread sticky! I do hope it serves its purpose and that people share their experience on this subject.

Most of all, I like to thank you guys from Linux Mint for producing a wonderful Linux distribution. It may not be perfect (LVM still missing as installer option), but it really is nice and versatile. It's been and still is my favorite distro for the past 5-6 years.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby xenopeek on Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:18 pm

Depending on what kind of problems user have, they could post to Installation & Boot (for guest issues) or to Software & Applications (for host issues). Or depending on the kind of issue they have, to one of the other forums. Tips and tutorials got to Tutorials / Howtos. It may not be a perfect fit, but for now it will have to do.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:27 pm

xenopeek wrote:Depending on what kind of problems user have, they could post to Installation & Boot (for guest issues) or to Software & Applications (for host issues). Or depending on the kind of issue they have, to one of the other forums. Tips and tutorials got to Tutorials / Howtos. It may not be a perfect fit, but for now it will have to do.


Thanks
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:05 am

xenopeek wrote:There are other topics of course, but overall it doesn't look like there are many questions for support on virtualization. So we're not currently considering a separate forum for it (yet). We keep an eye on the kinds of topics we get, and as we'll likely restructure the forums later this year we will revisit it then.

I've stickied your topic as it seems it is the most in-depth how to and discussion :wink:


For more than a year the "HOW-TO make dual-boot obsolete using XEN VGA passthrough" - which is all about virtualization - has been the most popular thread in the "Tutorials" section - see http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=112013. In fact, by now it has become the number 1 tutorial in terms of views.

I wish you would reconsider opening a Virtualization section as there is absolutely no place on this forum to ask virtualization-specific questions, regardless of whether we are talking about Linux Mint as guest or as host. The worst thing is that there is no way one can contribute with answers - I would have to scan the entire forum to find virtualization related questions, and I doubt anyone else would go through the trouble of searching for "the needle in the hay stack".

In fact, most will probably look elsewhere to ask questions, for example at the Ubuntu forum.

Please reconsider.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby xenopeek on Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:49 pm

powerhouse wrote:For more than a year the "HOW-TO make dual-boot obsolete using XEN VGA passthrough" - which is all about virtualization - has been the most popular thread in the "Tutorials" section - see viewtopic.php?f=42&t=112013. In fact, by now it has become the number 1 tutorial in terms of views.

You alerted me to this fact, that the view count was rising by tens of thousands per week. Investigation is underway but initial conclusion is that somebody is running a script to artificial increase the view count on that tutorial. Not representative by any margin of general interest of Linux Mint users in virtualization.

We may reconsider if we see more topics/questions about virtualization. Most (of the few) questions we've seen about virtualization relate to VirtualBox and are well at home in Installation & Boot or Software sections of the forum.

Is your current intent for the virtualization forum to ask questions yourself, or to answer questions from others, or to have one place for all tutorials and howtos about virtualization? In the latter case, you may consider the Community site's tutorial section: http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/welcome. Tags can be used on tutorials there and several tutorials with the "virtualization" tag can be found.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:26 pm

xenopeek wrote:
powerhouse wrote:For more than a year the "HOW-TO make dual-boot obsolete using XEN VGA passthrough" - which is all about virtualization - has been the most popular thread in the "Tutorials" section - see viewtopic.php?f=42&t=112013. In fact, by now it has become the number 1 tutorial in terms of views.

You alerted me to this fact, that the view count was rising by tens of thousands per week. Investigation is underway but initial conclusion is that somebody is running a script to artificial increase the view count on that tutorial. Not representative by any margin of general interest of Linux Mint users in virtualization.

We may reconsider if we see more topics/questions about virtualization. Most (of the few) questions we've seen about virtualization relate to VirtualBox and are well at home in Installation & Boot or Software sections of the forum.

Is your current intent for the virtualization forum to ask questions yourself, or to answer questions from others, or to have one place for all tutorials and howtos about virtualization? In the latter case, you may consider the Community site's tutorial section: http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/welcome. Tags can be used on tutorials there and several tutorials with the "virtualization" tag can be found.


1. The view count has stopped rising by the tens of thousands a day. In any case, even before the sudden rise it was in the high fifties (57,000 or so), not bad for any topic. I agree that someone must have written a script to artificially raise the count. It wasn't me and I don't need that "publicity", in fact I was and am quite disturbed about that.

2. It's a chicken and egg situation: In the beginning I tried to post virtualization related questions (mainly Xen) on the forum but I can't remember getting any answers back. So I looked at other forums such as Ubuntu, Fedora, ArchLinux, even overclock.net, tomshardware, etc. They all have virtualization sections. The few virtualization related questions and answers on the Linux Mint forum are usually related to VirtualBox.

3. My intent for a virtualization forum is first and foremost to promote Linux, in particular Linux Mint as the host for virtual machines. Linux Mint is a user friendly distribution, particularly to Linux newcomers, so I think it's a good platform for getting the ordinary folks more into virtualization. My personal favorite is running Windows and Windows applications on Linux without performance penalty. The Linux environment currently offers at least 2 tools for that: Xen and KVM. Both are relatively little known, compared to VMvare or the popular VirtualBox.
Until recently very few people were even aware that they can run Windows on top of Linux with full graphics performance using a dedicated graphics card. Over in the gaming chat section there isn't even a mention of that, though it seems easier to run a Xen hypervisor and install the Windows games in a Windows VM (I tried some Wine stuff today, just to get a feeling for it).
Many people will have to stick with Windows just because some of their favorite or indispensable apps aren't available in Linux. This happened to me and I was dual booting for perhaps 15 years. Today I click an icon to boot my Windows VM and switch between Linux and Windows with a button.
Not everbody is prepared to let go of Windows, and those who decide to give Linux a try still need a solution for running Windows apps - virtualization can offer that solution. So I believe this is a pretty important matter and shouldn't be left to the sidelines.
Personally I don't care much about running a Linux VM on Windows - this may be an attractive solution to many, but not to me. Windows has too many weak points, in my opinion. Still, a virtualization forum should also be open to include questions on running Linux Mint on VMware, VirtualBox, HyperV (Windows), or whatever.

4. Regarding the virtualization forum, I intend to both answer questions (on Xen, for example), but also to learn from others. For example, I'm keen on learning more about KVM, as well as SPICE etc., even LC. Hope that answers your question.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby xenopeek on Tue Dec 10, 2013 5:18 pm

powerhouse wrote:It wasn't me and I don't need that "publicity", in fact I was and am quite disturbed about that.

Apologies that I didn't make this explicitly clear in my post :| Yes, it was you that alerted me to this and you were rightly worried about what you saw happening. In no sense did I mean to imply you were doing this, and given your public standing here we've never considered you to be involved with this.

powerhouse wrote:I tried to post virtualization related questions (mainly Xen) on the forum but I can't remember getting any answers back. So I looked at other forums such as Ubuntu, Fedora, ArchLinux, even overclock.net, tomshardware, etc. They all have virtualization sections. The few virtualization related questions and answers on the Linux Mint forum are usually related to VirtualBox.

The focus for Linux Mint has been desktop and laptop use, while the focus for several distros you mention is also server and enterprise use. You're right that virtualization questions on the Linux Mint forums are mostly about VirtualBox, though now thinking about it VMware also pops up. Yes, Xen and others are less well represented and perhaps you are right that this is a "chicken and egg" situation. I'll head it up with the other admins again.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby powerhouse on Wed Dec 11, 2013 8:26 am

xenopeek wrote:
powerhouse wrote:It wasn't me and I don't need that "publicity", in fact I was and am quite disturbed about that.

Apologies that I didn't make this explicitly clear in my post :| Yes, it was you that alerted me to this and you were rightly worried about what you saw happening. In no sense did I mean to imply you were doing this, and given your public standing here we've never considered you to be involved with this.

powerhouse wrote:I tried to post virtualization related questions (mainly Xen) on the forum but I can't remember getting any answers back. So I looked at other forums such as Ubuntu, Fedora, ArchLinux, even overclock.net, tomshardware, etc. They all have virtualization sections. The few virtualization related questions and answers on the Linux Mint forum are usually related to VirtualBox.

The focus for Linux Mint has been desktop and laptop use, while the focus for several distros you mention is also server and enterprise use. You're right that virtualization questions on the Linux Mint forums are mostly about VirtualBox, though now thinking about it VMware also pops up. Yes, Xen and others are less well represented and perhaps you are right that this is a "chicken and egg" situation. I'll head it up with the other admins again.


1. No need to apologize - I didn't think you were acusing me. Thanks for making it clear to other readers who haven't been part of our correspondence. When I wrote the answer above I was hoping that the perpetrator would read it - whatever motive behind the manipulation of the view stats may be, it's nothing but a bad joke.

2. Virtualization is not only about servers and enterprise applications. Virtualisation can help the ordinary Windows user migrate to Linux without having to give up her/his favorite Windows games or applications.
Many if not most Linux users have a dual-boot setup. We all know how discouraging this is. I've met enough people who tried Linux, but in the end went back to Microsoft Windows just because of the inconvenience of dual-booting.

Virtualization provides a real solution for those people. For some of them the answer may be VirtualBox, for others perhaps Wine. For me - a photo enthusiast - the solution was Xen with VGA passthrough. VGA passthrough under Xen or KVM is also the perfect answer to gamers, see for example here: http://www.overclock.net/t/1205216/guide-create-a-gaming-virtual-machine or here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=162768.

I chose Linux Mint as the platform for my Xen VGA passthrough adventure because Linux Mint is such a great desktop distribution. Even though this meant that I had to re-invent the wheel, that is, figure out myself how to get it working on LM.

So, to make it absolutely clear, I'm not proposing the virtualization forum to push Linux Mint towards server or cloud applications, instead I would like to make Linux Mint more suitable for everyday desktop tasks.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby cwn33 on Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:55 am

Hello - I support the implementation of a dedicated forum for virtualization. I'm confident there are several Windows users who, like me, would like to use Linux but can't because of abandoning some application. In my instance, I'm locked into a couple Windows programs - Quickbooks and our company mailing list and reservation system (programmed in Visual FoxPro). The forum should also include categories for various methods of virtualization - VirtualBox, KVM, Zen, whatever. It would also seem to me that WINE, while I guess not being technically virtualization, should be included since it is another means by which favorite/necessary applications can be brought along with a switch to Linux. So, in this sense, perhaps the forum heading, instead of "Virtualization", might be something like "Software Applications (Legacy)"...or some term that might convey this concept to Linux prospects.
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Re: Virtualization section in forums

Postby deminted on Sat Jan 11, 2014 10:26 am

Add to http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=148021 ?
(given a major use of virtualisation is for this reason)
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