Microsoft is Doomed

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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby catweazel on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:21 am

samriggs wrote:pretty interesting read
I can see it now, folks standing in the streets in a comma from the blue screen (skin) of death.

It could worse...

Customer: There's a glitch in my network.
MS Support: Oh, ok. Please stick your finger into a network socket and I'll check.
Customer: OK <ZAP>
MS Support: Scanning you now...
Customer: OK
MS Support: Ah! You've been picking your nose...
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby rkmugen on Fri Apr 26, 2013 3:41 am

I see this forum thread about Microsoft being "doomed" and even before I read the first post, what came to my mind almost instantly was that one old episode of "The Simpsons", where a couple of cartoon producers were trying to determine what 'new' things the kids wanted to see in the "Itchy & Scratchy" cartoon. How does this relate to the topic at hand? Well, I see Microsoft as that one guy who calls the kids stupid for not knowing what they want, thereby causing Ralph Wiggum to cry and turn his indicator dial to red instead of green (indicating his disapproval).

Source video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h29-sftMGl0

Just like "Itchy & Scratchy", and heck, even "The Simpsons", Windows has gotten stale. For the past 15+ years, Microsoft has been acquiring smaller companies and copying other innovations, I'd argue, likely in an effort to come up with something that its incredibly large user base could buy into, rather than pioneering in new inventions, or truly original, innovative things. And just like the "improvements" made to "Itchy & Scratchy" and even "The Simpsons", the "improvements" made to Windows in the form of "Vista" and "8" only ended up driving more people away... though seriously, i can only speak for myself as I refuse to upgrade my Vista-based HTPC... it came with Vista when I bought it new in early 2007 and hasn't given my any trouble ever since (software-wise), so I'd rather not mess with something that ain't broken..... at least not until Microsoft decides to stop issuing updates for it (at which point, I'm going "all-Linux Mint").

Furthermore, it's not just Windows. You look at Microsoft's other products like the MS Office suite. Sure, many companies and schools still require that their workers and students (respectively) know how to use those things. But in the end, all that matters is being able to save your files in the most widely-recognized file formats (.txt, .pdf, .mp4, .mp3, .ogg, .png, .jpg... etc.). Does one really need Microsoft products to work with those types of files (easily)? Maybe 20+ years ago, a Linux novice might have said 'yes'. It's a different story today. There's this one Australian kid who was trying to see if he could completely replace/ditch Windows 7 (supposedly the "best" iteration of Windows since XP) for Ubuntu 12.10. For the most part, he was able to do everything on Linux that a basic user could do on Windows: print his documents, make a movie, transfer files to and from his smartphone, play a Windows game.

Source video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuTv92LOy1U

I guess, the only thing I'd really bother keeping Windows for would be for games and other stubborn pieces software that absolutely refuses to run ("well" or "at all") on WINE, or for situations where gaming or anything graphics-related suffers... simply because the Linux-based drivers just suck compared to their Windows counterparts. Well... also for those cases where there are no streamlined, easy-to-use, Linux alternatives to certain Windows software and possibly for those rare times when the Linux apps/components I depend highly upon just seem to break for some dumb reason after an update/upgrade *cough*MESA*cough*.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby Pierre on Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:50 am

the antidotal evidence is mounting, though.

people, who just can't handle that "swipe stuff"

why can't I get straight to my desktop?
why aren't there any drivers for my thingy?
why won't this program, now work on windows?
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby catweazel on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:31 am

Pierre wrote:why aren't there any drivers for my thingy?
why won't this program, now work on windows?

FUD. Windows 7 drivers all work on 8, as do XP and w7 applications.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby randomizer on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:41 am

catweazel wrote:FUD. Windows 7 drivers all work on 8, as do XP and w7 applications.


Work, yes. Work perfectly? Not always. Skype 4.2 doesn't quite behave on Windows 8 when it starts with each session. You end up with a phantom taskbar entry that doesn't open any window when you click on it, but it will kill Skype if you close it via the context menu. Serif WebPlus X4 (released only in 2009) also doesn't work properly despite passing the Microsoft Logo Program, although that's not necessarily a bad thing because it's awful software and I only use it out of necessity for a legacy website. Unfortunately I have to resort to a Win XP VM though.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby catweazel on Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:44 am

randomizer wrote:Work, yes. Work perfectly? Not always. Skype 4.2

It cuts both ways. If linux distros were any different this forum wouldn't be needed.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby randomizer on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:14 am

Of course, but I'm merely pointing out that your assertion that all Win XP to 7 drivers and applications work on Windows 8 is incorrect, just as the implied assertion that none of them work is also incorrect.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby catweazel on Sat Apr 27, 2013 4:22 am

randomizer wrote:Of course, but I'm merely pointing out that your assertion that all Win XP to 7 drivers and applications work on Windows 8 is incorrect, just as the implied assertion that none of them work is also incorrect.

This is getting off topic. The phrase was a generalisation. I don't see the point in joining you in a mad dash to split hairs.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby dee. on Mon May 06, 2013 1:33 pm

In any industry, there are two types of actors: the innovators, who drive the field forward, and then - for lack of a better term - the parasites. When an industry is young, there are mostly only innovators, lots of small start-ups with big ideas. Slowly, the biggest power and capital consolidates to a few actors. These become market leaders. Sometimes, the power all consolidates to one actor, or it gains such a lead to the others that it might as well be a monopoly.

Now In a healthy market, the way it works is that the wackiest, least feasible, least sustainable ones drop off, while the most innovative, most feasible, most practical ones stay afloat and flourish. In practice, we don't have this. Instead, we have rent-seekers and gatekeepers. The innovators of yesteryear become fat and complacent, and have accumulated too much dead weight to move swiftly enough to stay on the pulse of times, and thus are unable to innovate. That's when the former innovators turn into parasites. They start a rent-seeking and gatekeeping behaviour: instead of promoting innovation, they spend their resources erecting barriers for market entry, they do what they can to keep new start-ups and innovators from gaining market share, whether it's by abusing their capital and market position, or abusing the patent system, or political bribery.

Fortunately, this never lasts. Eventually, the new innovators disrupt the market enough, and the fat old parasites are cleared out. Then a decade or two from that the cycle starts anew, as the market disruptors of today will have themselves become fat and complacent, and will do their best to keep the new new innovators from entering the market.

Microsoft is now in the phase where they've quit being an innovator and have become a parasite. It won't be long now that they will go down. I give them 5 years max.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby Lumikki on Mon May 06, 2013 2:18 pm

In my opinion Windows 8 and RT and so, was extreme bad move from Microsoft. What they did does hurt's hole PC business.

Many times when company comes bigger enough they start looking everyting as company's needs and they forget customers needs. Like company starts to saying, I know better, even if they customers disagree. That's when the company and it's products are in loosing road. Forcing your own desires to others, doesn't really work, it need to be freedom of choice.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby MartyMint on Mon May 06, 2013 8:51 pm

The desktop was in decline long before Windows 8 showed up on the scene.

The only button that OS designers and software engineers care about these days is the "BUY NOW!" button.

It's all about monetising exploitable commodities.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby Reorx on Tue May 07, 2013 8:38 am

Windows 8 is just a continuation of the Microsoft every-other-version philosophy... in summary, Microsoft only puts out a reasonable OS every other version... This goes back decades... Windows 3.0 not good - 3.11 OK... Win95 not great - 98 OK... Windows ME sucked out loud - XP was good... Vista was crap - Win7 OK... Win 8 is more crap - Win 9 will be better (probably)... Bet we see a user selectable interface in Win9 or maybe there will be different versions of W9 for different platforms...

Don't get me wrong, I hate Windows as much as the next guy but the real test of the demise of MS will be if they can have 2 failures in a row - only time will tell... Usually the next latest and greatest MS offering comes pretty quickly on the heels of a failed OS version... and usually, the worse the failure, the faster the next version is released - can't wait to see how fast we will see Win9!

And in a real sense, I think Windows is a pretty good OS - as long as you don't connect it to a network... Windows machines should be built without a NIC card (wired or wireless) and they would be fine... :D They should consider coming out with a network safe version.. Here's a scary thought - Winux!!! :lol:
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby 6dandl5 on Sun May 19, 2013 8:18 am

I upgrade my wife's machine from XP Pro to Win 8 back in January. She didn't like the start screen interface so I installed Classic Shell, for her to be able to boot into the desktop. I do not like Win 8 on a desktop PC, I have no use for laptops or notebook pc's. I do believe Microsoft has given up on the desktop PC, for all this mobility crap that everybody is using. Personally, after buying retail copies of XP, Vista, and Win7, I have contriuted enough to Microsoft. Think I will make a contribution to Linux Mint. I stil run Win7 64bit on my work machine because I do a lot of document scanning. Hard to find scanner support wirh Linux.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby justy39 on Sun May 19, 2013 8:34 pm

While desktop sales and laptop sales are down. Things like the tablet are up. Game consoles like the Playstation or xbox are up.

It is true that, many older computers out there are just as good as the new one's sold today. Some of the older motherboard's used better quality parts.
Companies today are trying to save money, to make a bigger end sale profit. So they hunt around looking for the cheapest manufactured parts they can buy. Which fail very quickly, within only a year to three years. I personally have a couple old pc's, now used as servers. And still work with the original parts, other than maybe a new fan and some new thermal paste under the heatsink. Otherwise motherboard's themselves, run as good as the day I bought it.

Not everyone is a heavy gamer. You go to bestbuy or someone selling pc's. They will try convincing someone you need a 8 core processor for everyday reading email and watching youtube, that's overkill. If you search the forums in How to's, I have a thread on how to run Mint 15 on a non-pae single core pentium M processor. I wouldn't suggest someone going out and buying a old single core pc or a D600 laptop, but if money is tight it's good enough. I feel that, the typical user who wanted to play online card games, chat, email, or, youtube videos. A dual core cpu will do it for you pretty good. Now if you were going to play something like call of duty, then yes you would be better off with a bigger cpu.

Windows 8 ruined it for many. I do not know why there is a big hype with touchscreen. Touchscreen I like on my phone because of a small screen. But for typing my phone also has a slide out keyboard. On a computer, I actually like typing. But I am also very picky when comes to computer screens. If there is a smudge, dust, anything on the monitor. Everything is put on halt til it's clean. Therefore, windows 8 would not be my pick for a OS.

A lot of the people who wrote the previous versions of windows, is now retiring or retired. So with the new blood at microsoft. I think they have a aspect of making windows simplified. Sometimes, you can make things to simple, to the point it feels like more of a toy than a productive tool. People will shy away from it. I would lose interest in a operating system that reminds me of a cartoon. Actually when windows 8 came out and I saw previews at the store with metro. I thought, this is Fred Flintstone cartoon stuff. I said no way in heck do I like that look and function. I want something that I type on and get there quickly instead of scrolling through tiles. Rather keep my instant desktop icons. Windows 8 may look fun. But that's all it is, is fun.

The thing what got me into computers, back in the day Leo Laporte was on zdnet tv doing screensavers & call for help. We considered ourselves at the time as white hat hackers, or black hat hackers. There was a learning aspect with pc's. Finding out things you could do, pushing the limits of hardware and software. With OS's like windows 8, kids wouldn't learn much other than. Touching the picture of the cheeseburger for cheeseburger. If all you do is touch a picture to get a function, there is no learning curve. In the future, if there is a bunch of kids that know nothing but touching a picture. Highly unlikely they will hack anything, unless they send someone a cheeseburger picture to a server a zillion times, crashing it with DDOS. I think it's a wrong move for OS writers to aim for a picture OS. Most likely all pc's would look the same. You will not see much of a customize desktop. If they do not learn some binary codes, there won't be much of open source software. Not unless they make a program with pictures, that you can drag to create a open source program. New ideas will plummet with no decent programmers, or new programmers. Pretty hard to design or have a idea how to make something work, if all you know is surface operations like touching a cheeseburger. You need to know what's underneath and how it functions and can be manipulated.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby MartyMint on Sun May 19, 2013 9:12 pm

justy39 wrote:You need to know what's underneath and how it functions and can be manipulated.


No.

Most people buy computers because they have certain tasks they need the computer to perform.

That's like saying you need to understand how the combustion engine works in order to drive a car.

If Suzy Housewife or Joe Lunchbox buys a computer just for Facebook or Skype, I wouldn't think any less of them. I don't expect a plumber to look down his nose at me because I don't know the difference between an MJ clamp and a union fitting. I just need to use the toilet sometimes.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby jgradyc on Sun May 19, 2013 10:07 pm

I upgraded from Windows 7 to Windows 8 on a laptop I bought only one month before Windows 8 came out. I had problems getting some things to work, but mostly it was just a hassle to do anything in Windows 8. Actions that took 4-6 mouse movements/clicks now took 6-8 clicks. Some of the motions, like getting the cursor in exactly the right spot to open the charms bar were infuriating. It took 2-4 tries every time. Updates came seemingly 2-3 times a week and took 15 minutes to run.

I loaded Ubuntu 12.10 and ran it in dual boot until a Windows update crashed Windows. Then I installed Linux Mint 14 Cinnamon. It's wonderful and I can't help but wonder if some of the other iterations of Linux are even better.

Microsoft will continue to be a leader in the market because if they stop upgrading the operating system, there would be very little need to buy a new computer. It's like Apple coming out with a new iPhone every year so their fanboys will buy a new phone when there is really no need to do so. Microsoft's market share will continue to decline, but they'll be #1 for the foreseeable future.

I'm happy with the status quo. Microsoft comes out with a new OS every 2-3 years that obsoletes software and hardware, forcing the masses to go to the big box stores and buy shiny new laptops. The new OS is so expensive and so buggy with old hardware that it's easier for consumers to just buy a new laptop, which they do. Four year old laptops can be bought for pennies on the dollar. I'm typing this on a Toshiba L505 that I paid $130 for. I bought a 5-year-old Lenovo without a hard drive for $40.

Linux holds a tiny part of the market. We don't have to worry about viruses. I'll never buy another computer with Windows 8 on it... that is, until Windows 9 comes out and consumers start dumping their Windows 8 machines.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby justy39 on Mon May 20, 2013 1:07 pm

MartyMint wrote:
justy39 wrote:You need to know what's underneath and how it functions and can be manipulated.


No.

Most people buy computers because they have certain tasks they need the computer to perform.

That's like saying you need to understand how the combustion engine works in order to drive a car.

If Suzy Housewife or Joe Lunchbox buys a computer just for Facebook or Skype, I wouldn't think any less of them. I don't expect a plumber to look down his nose at me because I don't know the difference between an MJ clamp and a union fitting. I just need to use the toilet sometimes.


I was referring to future programmers. If all you learned in life is, touching a screen for a cheeseburger. How are you going to come up with a idea, and write a new piece of software? You simply are not.

Yes, people may use facebook and stuff on a daily basis but, If they had a new idea like adding a instant call button on facebook. Guess touching pictures for a function all their life, is not going to help them with a dhtml code for creating that button on facebook. If a plumber spent his entire life gluing pipes together, and the time came he had to solder a pipe together. And the plumber never soldered before, guess he can not complete that task.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby MartyMint on Mon May 20, 2013 3:29 pm

There will always be programmers.

The simplicity (or appearance thereof) of an operating system has no bearing on the general public's interest on programing.
Even further, my guess is that the explosion of interest in programming came by way of the spread of Windows.

Touch devices need sophisticated progamming too. The idea that having to manually install a driver or have knowledge of drive partitioning leads to a deeper curiousity in how code is written is nonsense.
Maybe for you...but the vast majority are glad to not be burdened with such "trivialities".

Look at the growth of culture in iOS and Android app developement...all TOUCH devices.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby KBD47 on Mon May 20, 2013 5:48 pm

Yes, MS is in serious trouble. Google and Apple are taking its place. Google is winning by giving away free software--Android and Chrome OS--that run on lower spec hardware, so you have lower cost hardware with free operating systems, MS cannot compete against that because it is bloated, needing more expensive hardware, and you must add in the cost of Windows itself. Plus add in the fact that everything is going mobile and smaller, while Windows is bloated and late to the show on smaller screens.
Linux should be thinking about how to get on Chromebooks and the Hybrid Android devices (Androidbooks) that are coming. We will need keyboard computers for the foreseeable future, we just don't need Windows on them. The good news for Linux is that many of these new devices will already be running the Linux kernel and Google will not be trying to keep Linux away as MS has.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57585 ... d-windows/
It is also astounding how much young people want iPads:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/pers ... s/2343423/
I think every young person and kid I know has either an iPhone and/or and iPad with the main tablet choice being the iPad mini.
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Re: Microsoft is Doomed

Postby catweazel on Mon May 20, 2013 6:48 pm

I think that those of you who see a decline in desktop sales being due to a rise in tablet use have got your facts wrong. Empirical evidence suggests that the real cause of the decline is not a move to tablets but the PC-using public's negative reaction to Microsoft's Windwoes 8.

According to at least one market research firm, IDC, Windwoes 8 contributed to a 14 per cent decline in worldwide desktop sales during the first three months of this year. That's more than 80% of the total decline in desktop sales being due to a negative reaction to MS' very own bad decision-making.
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