Why mint hates KDE?!

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Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby mbnoimi on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:01 pm

As you notice Mint guys very interesting in Cinnamon while they don't take care about KDE as they do with Cinnamon. Is there any way to talk to dev. team in Mint about this issue?

P.S. I'm KDE user since many years and I find it most powerful desktop (really hate Gnome :x )
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby tdockery97 on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:11 pm

The Mint team certainly doesn't hate KDE. You have to keep in mind that since the first release of Linux Mint several years ago the Gnome desktop was and is the main edition. It's not that the Mint developers don't like KDE (or Xfce), but the main edition comes first, then development is done on the other editions. In any distribution with multiple editions something has to be priority #1, and for Mint that is Cinnamon and MATE (Gnome-based and Gnome fork respectively).

The Mint developers have every reason to be proud of each of the editions, regardless of which one comes "first".
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby mbnoimi on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:40 pm

The Mint developers have every reason to be proud of each of the editions, regardless of which one comes "first".

Actually this is not the case of proud It's the case of practical situation. I'm using Mint KDE 14 and suffer from old ubuntu packages cuz Mint 14 based on ubuntu 12.10 which has many deprecated packages. This priority make me feel upset because from my perspective KDE comes first so priority thing is act of injustice.

I don't really convince that Cinnamon is pretty easy for newbies because in many cases the user force to use damn terminal to do some task which are already available in KDE with GUI! so easiness is relative matter and let's don't forget that Windows is very popular than MAC OSx although the last is pretty similar to Cinnamon!

P.S. I don't know why Mint guys didn't discuss default desktop issue but I certainly encourage the idea of considering KDE as default desktop for Mint and the only thing preventing me to going back to openSuSE is proprietary drivers which are included in Mint (default desktop of openSuSE is KDE)[/list]
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby xenopeek on Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:49 pm

While you may not agree with it, the fact is that Xfce and KDE are about half as popular with Linux Mint users as Cinnamon and MATE (viewtopic.php?f=60&t=100787&start=580). The team can only work on a limited number of releases, so based on community feedback they do set priorities. Hence Cinnamon and MATE each have a regular, a no-codecs and an OEM release on the main edition of Linux Mint, and also a regular release on LMDE, while Xfce and KDE each only have a regular release on the main edition of Linux Mint.

That said, don't confuse the Cinnamon development team with the Linux Mint development team. While there is some overlap, notably Clem, these are separate teams of volunteers. The Linux Mint developers and testers give equal time and attention to each release and each desktop environment. The Cinnamon developers of course only develop Cinnamon, just as the KDE developers only develop KDE (okay, there might be some working on both :)).

Coming back to your post, you mention that "they don't take care about KDE as they do with Cinnamon." You didn't share specifics, but if you have suggestions for improvement those are very much welcome. Constructive feedback is very much welcomed :) You can post suggestions here on the forum (viewforum.php?f=29), or as an idea on the Community site (http://community.linuxmint.com/), or you can leave a comment on the blog (the KDE release is still in RC, so report any bugs found!).

If your issue was just that the Ubuntu package base that Linux Mint uses isn't a rolling release, that is just a fact. For Cinnamon the Cinnamon development team makes backport packages available so you can get a newer version of Cinnamon on older releases of Linux Mint. For MATE the MATE development team does that. For KDE the Kubuntu development team does that. So if you wanted the newer KDE SC on Linux Mint 14, you would just add the Kubuntu backports PPA.
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby Orbmiser on Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:51 pm

I'm also using KDE 14 with backports to KDE 4.10.3 and running great.
Don't know about depreciated packages? As in?

And as pointed out yes it's a limited family and KDE and Xfce are step-children.
But that doesn't mean the Mint Family loves them any less. But with 4 or 5 children and only 2 parents.
There is always going to be a child or two feeling they aren't getting their deserved attention :P

Simple solution is find a Distro that is more KDE centric as their main distro.

And what is specifically missing or not doing it for you in Mint 14 KDE?
.
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby mbnoimi on Thu Jul 11, 2013 4:12 pm

Simple solution is find a Distro that is more KDE centric as their main distro.

And what is specifically missing or not doing it for you in Mint 14 KDE?

There are many troubles I recently faced with KDE 14 because it became old!I can't remember exactly but for example ubuntu 13.04 has Qt5 runtimes while 12.10 hasn't so mint 15 works fine while mint 14 doesn't. The recent most important options in Kazam screencaster doesn't work in 12.10 while it works perfectly in 13.04!!! The recent git-cola version in 12.10 2 years old while 13.04 has recent version... and many things. So I think Mint really doesn't give deserved attention to KDE.

This is absolute injustice to give Cinnamon 99% of attention. I encourage Mint to shutdown all other distros if they can't give them the right attention!

Simple solution is find a Distro that is more KDE centric as their main distro.

As I mentioned above, the only thing stopped me to leave Mint KDE is good support of proprietary drivers which is missing in Arch, OpenSuSE or Chakra. But if I found any distro fills this gap I'll never hesitate to leave Mint KDE while they don't care about KDE users.
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby xenopeek on Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:08 pm

mbnoimi wrote:This is absolute injustice to give Cinnamon 99% of attention.

Perhaps you misunderstood the terminology I used so let me try again, because this is absolutely not the case. You fail to see there is a difference between programmers writing code, distro developers putting together a new release, and distro testers testing such a new release new release. These are three separate teams.

For KDE, the KDE programmers write the code. For Cinnamon, the Cinnamon programmers write the code. But for both the Linux Mint KDE and the Linux Mint Cinnamon releases it are the Linux Mint developers that put together the new release, and the Linux Mint testers that test it. The Cinnamon programmers, or for that matter the KDE programmers, have nothing to do with putting together of a new release of Linux Mint--they just write the code for their desktop environment. Just as KDE works on many distros, so does Cinnamon work on many distros (see: http://cinnamon.linuxmint.com/?page_id=61).

Your critique seems to be only about not having the latest versions of some programs, so that you don't have the latest features. Well, in fact none of your programs are upgraded on Linux Mint for new features! All you get is security upgrades, no new features. You get new features when you upgrade to a newer Linux Mint release, or as shared you can find some PPA or other repository that will let you install a newer version of a program and that way earlier get a newer feature. There is no difference in this between the Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce or KDE releases. All programs only get security upgrades, no upgrades for new features.

Finally, I fail to see what the "injustice" is in volunteers spending their own time on doing what they love--to whit, spend it on writing code for Cinnamon. If those volunteers wouldn't spend their spare time on Cinnamon, do you think they would suddenly spend in on putting together the Linux Mint KDE release--while they aren't at all involved with putting together any of the Linux Mint releases?

I'll repeat, if you have constructive criticism about what could be done better on the Linux Mint KDE release than this is very much welcome. However, kindly respect all the valued volunteers that are working on Cinnamon, just as they in turn have respect for all the volunteers working on KDE (and for both Cinnamon and KDE here I mean the desktop environment, not the Linux Mint release with that desktop environment).
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby colyn on Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:16 pm

I think the biggest issue with KDE isn't that it is low on the totem pole but more that fredg seems to have problems getting a workable iso. He has more failures than the other developers thus a longer wait for a final release.
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby xenopeek on Fri Jul 12, 2013 2:48 am

Give Fred some slack; the KDE release has a different installer from all the other releases so there are other issues to run in to. Issues that by solving them for Cinnamon or MATE for example, would already be solved "for free" before starting the Xfce release.
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby The Dark Side on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:29 pm

Really do not think with The Linux Mint Team hates Linux Mint KDE. Me too I love KDE Desktop, and I use Linux Mint KDE, in fact Linux Mint KDE use all versions since the number 8 (and all I found excellent, except for the version 12 which was quite regular). Currently, I am using Linux Mint 13 KDE is really super stable, very efficient, no complaints.-

It is true that Linux Mint 15 KDE version is somewhat late, but I trust you will get out (actually already the RC). Me too I would like The Linux Mint KDE was the Main Edition of Linux Mint, but I will not it can be. Definitely, The Linux Mint Team gives more importance to issues Cinnamon and Mate. There are people in The Linux Mint Team that works with Cinnamon and Mate Desktop, for this know them best. Although repeat, all versions of Linux Mint I tested are excellent with any desktop (except the version 12). Best Regards.-
Linux Mint 17 Cinnamon
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Re: Why mint hates KDE?!

Postby Higgles on Sat Jul 13, 2013 3:22 am

Mint does not hate KDE. Mint gets income from the KDE edition. If you look at their commercial sponsors, you will see that Blue Systems is one the ones listed. Blue Systems also sponsor Kubuntu and Netrunner, and are the people who provided the backing for Kubuntu when Canonical pulled the funding.

There have been issues during the testing of the KDE ISO builds and if you look at the problems, they are rather important. Having a stable update backend in place for me is not a show stopper (I normally update from command line), however most people will just be using the GUI for updates. Therefore this is something that we need to be done correctly.
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