Linux just aint ready

[belovedmonster]

I love everything about the open source community and the way that anyone can get involved. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that all these people come together to work on projects which I believe will one day make a huge difference in the world.

But man, I'm fed up with Linux and it's bugs and quirks.

Maybe I'm just really unlucky but everytime I install a distro there's always loads of issues I've got to resolve.

I installed Xubuntu 8.04 when it came out a few weeks back and so far I've had to spend hours fixing or trying to fix loads of annoying little bugs; firefox not downloading files right, firefox installing the wrong flash plugin, the XFCE menu screwing up, my windows partition not mounting, my thumbdrive not mounting, rhythmbox giving me two error messages everytime I open it, rhythmbox now refusing to download album artwork, xubuntu resetting my grub menu to default into the wrong thing, the list goes on.

To be fair, not all Linux distros have been this bad, but even when it's gone quite well I've still had a couple of annoying little quirks that took hours of scouring forums to fix.

I'm just fed up of it.

Though why I'm fed up I dont know, because I came to the conclusion a year ago that Linux was at least 3 years away from being polished enough that it was a genuinely easy to use OS that you could ask a computer noob to use. At the moment all my problems are just supporting that claim.

In some respects Linux is so much better than Windows, but until you can install it without fear of several issues that need resolving then it aint going to be ready for mass market adoption.

I think from now on I'm always going to wait until a distro is like 3 months old before I install it, hopefully minimising all the annoying things to fix after installing it.

[GrayWizardLinux]

instead of installing all the time - find something that works or you can get working and stay with it. Maybe tweak less too.

I found then when i can get most of it to work - it is better to leave and use ths system then to add more and break more and tweak more and break even more.

that is my newbie perspective. My big problem is printer cannot print or work or be recognized. But generally most stuff works. So I live with and enjoy what i have.

[belovedmonster]

That's all good and well if you already have a stable Linux installation, but what if you dont? Are we basically saying that new users should always install an older version of Linux? Or just that they need to bite the bullet and put up with all the initial crap you get from a new installation in the knowledge that once they have spent hours fixing it they wont need to do that again?

Either option sucks.

[MALsPa]

Yeah, there are definitely two sides to the Linux coin. No distro I've installed, to include Daryna, was truly an out-of-the-box experience. At best, there's still some work to be done that requires a bit of Linux knowledge. Maybe that would be a turn-off to a newbie. But I think that if you're going to use Linux, you should at least learn some basics.

Once things are set up, the idea that "Linux just ain't ready" quickly fades, though.

Like ed@Mint says, "...using Linux is all about gaining control and knowing a bit better your system..." Perhaps everyone shouldn't use it; perhaps it never will be "mainstream."

I don't know, my thinking is that you can't expect something for nothing. You can either pay big bucks for something like Windows, or you can do a little work and take advantage of what Linux has to offer. I'll trade a little time learning some things for giving up my hard-earned cash, any day of the week! I'll tell you what, I used to spend a lot of time with XP trying to make sure that things stayed secure. In the long run, I think that with Linux that time is put to much better use...

[rivenought]

Of course, it could be that "Not everyone is ready for Linux." Honestly, some people actually might be chained to Windows for specific mission-critical and proprietary applications. In that instance when no Linux alternative is available, dual-booting or WINE could be a valuable option.

Unfortunately, some people want to move to Linux, but insist on lugging Windows-specific baggage and demanding that it function exactly as it did in Windows. Well, that person is setting himself or herself up for disappointment and possible failure. Windows does an excellent job running Windows programs. That person is not ready for Linux.

We all have different needs. There is nothing that I "need" in Windows. Every single "need" that I have is completely covered with Linux Mint directly out of the box. The only "would be nice to also have" issue is downloading the standard GNOME games package via Synaptic. See, not much of an issue at all, obviously. While my situation is different from others, I find that if Linux will not do something, chances are that I do not need to be doing it in the first place.

I do agree with the frustration of the newcomers who have hardware that does not have much support in Linux. Instead of getting angry with Linux, focus and vent on where the problem originates - the hardware manufacturer who does not release proper drivers. However, if one is careful in initial research and purchases supported hardware, one can and usually does have an excellent Linux experience.

It many times boils down NOT that "Linux just ain't ready," but that quite often "You just ain't ready for Linux." That is just an observation and opinion. Nothing I write is meant as a personal attack on anyone, but it is a suggestion for further introspection of personal "wants" versus actual "needs." Linux Mint is ready. Are you?

[belovedmonster]

I'm not talking about Windows baggage when Xubuntu decides to change my default boot up without asking me after a routine update, nor am I failing to learn to use Linux properly when I'm getting with several error messages simply from loading a piece of software in its default state.

This isnt about people not willing to learn Linux or expecting it to be like Windows, this is about Linux not being good enough, plain and simple. I should not be getting all these errors and shitty bugs when all I am doing is using the computer correctly. It's a failing of Linux not of me or any other user.

The argument stated earlier about not using the latest and greatest is perhaps the most damning. Maybe I just need to accept that Linux isnt good enough until it's been patched a bunch of times. Like I say, I'm gunna start a policy of only upgrading once the distro is half through its life cycle at the earliest.

[belovedmonster]

You are right. I am only using the examples of Xubuntu from the past few weeks, but that is because that was the straw that broke the camels back. I'm just fed up with having to tweak and configure things all the time and this was the final straw.

Maybe Mint 5 will be a relatively painless experience and restore some faith in Linux for me.

[GrayWizardLinux]

I said this in 2 other posts somewhere on this forum. Ubuntu - no luck getting most stuff to work - It Sucked big time.... Tried Mint bea or Bianca on 2 shitty laptops and most worked but not all and better than ubuntu for sure. got rid of the shitty laptops asap - actually one was a laptop with ubuntu installed that never worked and had a ton of issues - Not dell but another seller. terrible experience. half nice machine.

I did some homework and bought a refurb r51 thinkpad. Installed celena and all worked. laptop pooped out and no linux or mint - bought a thinkpad r61 new and better machine and installed daryna - most works great - but a couple of issues that the r51 did not have. but i still am very happy. Tried to install celena to see if more worked but had issues trying to get to even install celena. so i gave up. Was curious as to why I could not and if more would have worked with this laptop, but I will live with daryna. I would have been happy running celena on this if it all worked - no big deal. Matter of fact - if the r51 did not poop out I would still probably be running celena because it worked and i was very happy with it. so I felt that if it worked and it met my needs then why upgrade and do all my settings and install again. My point again is i would be very happy today running celena. I have not tried the new beta and even once that comes out - I will probably stay with what i have -Daryna. Not a big deal at all.

sorry for the quick post - working outside and just came in for a break.

[miket]

Hi All,

Just to put this all into perspective.
I support both Windows and Linux platforms, and I often build both windows and Linux PCs ...

I don't think I have ever had a "Works out of the box" experience with windows, I always have to load drivers to get things working,
whether it be wifi, printers, scanners, sound systems or whatever, hardly any of them will work from a base build of windows.

This is the same on the Linux platform too, you have to have the correct driver or "Module" to do something.
Software bugs exist under windows as well as Linux, it's the nature of the beast.

I must say though that out of all the problems I have to resolve, there are always more windows problems/bugs than Linux problems/bugs.
I must also admit though that the path of least resistance is via the Apple OS X platform .... it is about as close as I have ever got to "Works out the Box" !!

Just my two pennies worth

Mike.

[Husse]

I have done professional support for Windows boxes (not all that many though) and if I compare the amount of problems people have with XP with problems on Mint - well Mint wins outright

[donec]

Hi All,

Just to put this all into perspective.
I support both Windows and Linux platforms, and I often build both windows and Linux PCs ...

I don't think I have ever had a "Works out of the box" experience with windows, I always have to load drivers to get things working,
whether it be wifi, printers, scanners, sound systems or whatever, hardly any of them will work from a base build of windows.

This is the same on the Linux platform too, you have to have the correct driver or "Module" to do something.
Software bugs exist under windows as well as Linux, it's the nature of the beast.

I must say though that out of all the problems I have to resolve, there are always more windows problems/bugs than Linux problems/bugs.
I must also admit though that the path of least resistance is via the Apple OS X platform .... it is about as close as I have ever got to "Works out the Box" !!

Just my two pennies worth

Mike.

Hey Mike, I have been reading other threads like this one and felt there was a need to put some things straight. Then when I was reading this one it started coming to me what needed to be said as I read post after post till I got to yours. Well, you said it all and left me feeling kind of deflated as you left nothing out and left nothing else for me to say except thanks Mike for putting it so well.

[miket]

Hi Ed !

Apple is a bad example, they sell hardware as well as software, so their OS is specifically designed to, at least, run on their machines.
That is the least you can wait for when putting so much money into it...

I'm not sure it's a bad example, but maybe an "unfair" example
But it is still an "option"


Mike.

[miket]

Hi Ed,

The original subject of this thread is about Linux and troubles with hardware compatibility and the need to tweak & tinker.
So, as i said, this doesn't apply to Apple.

My comment is a result of this post by MALsPa on Fri May 30, 2008 1:24 pm

Yeah, there are definitely two sides to the Linux coin. No distro I've installed, to include Daryna, was truly an out-of-the-box experience.

I am not commenting "solely" on the original posting, but on the "overall thread" so it is a valid comment and on topic.

Mike.

[Fred]

Comparing Windows and Linux by the same yard stick is a non-starter. It is like comparing cars and airplanes. They are both modes of transportation, but beyond that they have little in common.

If you want to travel from London to New York, a car just won't do the trick. If you want to go to the grocery store 5 miles away, an airplane is a bit impractical.

The question of which is better is based on a false premise in the first place, so no factually correct answer will ever be arrived at.

Fred

[Husse]

@ Fred
Amen to that statement - and I hope your back is better

[miket]

I think my postings have been completely misread/misunderstood/taken out of context ... Perhaps it would be better if I just removed them ?

Mike.

[Husse]

I think my postings have been completely misread/misunderstood/taken out of context ... Perhaps it would be better if I just removed them ?

Mike.

No - don't
And I have definitely not misread you
A topic like this has a chance of getting a bit, well a bit......

[yamawho]

Comparing Windows and Linux by the same yard stick is a non-starter. It is like comparing cars and airplanes. They are both modes of transportation, but beyond that they have little in common.

If you want to travel from London to New York, a car just won't do the trick. If you want to go to the grocery store 5 miles away, an airplane is a bit impractical.

The question of which is better is based on a false premise in the first place, so no factually correct answer will ever be arrived at.

Fred

Good one Fred

I have just built a home sever and it was easier to go with XP over linux because 3 out of the 4 printers I want to hook up have no linux driver support. Used as as a print server, fax server and file server.

I wanted to use Windows Home Server but since they have not fixed the data corruption bug yet, it seemed unwise to consider it. Once it is fixed, I may reconsider.

Another project which may see the light of day is Ubuntu Home Server but seems quite a ways away however, I would still need to address the printer driver thing not to mention the faxing ...

[rbanavara]

Interesting thread.... with equally interesting posts....!

I love linux since its free and for the support from the community and its secure. I am ready to tweak and this is an agreeadble cost I am ready to pay for something thats free. Also this gives a sens of gratification.

However out of context / bad / unfair example apple is, but I still beleive they have an ideal system.

I would like linux to be main stream OS and for this somehow the above glitches should be ironed out. Its fair to expect for a non techie to login to linux, does what ever he wants w/o worrying about install/patch something & log off (initially only examples that used to come to my mind were artists... now I can think of others as well... oragnic chemist / seismic analyst...!).

Probably we need an alliance from hardware vendor & linux. Now that we are getting linux preinstalled on systems also the ubuntu dell alliance, we may soon see linux systems working right out of the box.

[AK Dave]

Good point, starcannon.

Back in the day, when ygdrasil linux was the hot distro to put this in temporal perspective, I supported OS/2. By this I mean I was a paid hired gun to install OS/2 for people. Mostly businesses. Windows is a more lucrative support market because it is so unstable and easily broken. OS/2 was too stable for a stable income stream of repeat business. But people who wanted a service (OS/2 install) would pay for the service after buying the hardware and software. Sometimes I'd sell it all as a package, custom building the PC myself. Usually I'd just do their dirty work on their dirty hardware. It was good money for a college kid with no bills.