Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

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Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby laofzu on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:17 am

Since Linux Mint is unable or unwilling to keep LMDE up-to-date, perhaps they should just drop it altogether or turn it over to a community to maintain. I have long since moved on to Debian
Wheezy with the Mate 1.6 desktop installed. Works fine, no need to wait anymore for Linux Mint to release new updated isos. Should be good until the next Debian stable release far down the road. Not always the latest packages, but definitely dependable for getting work done everyday which is what matters to the clients I serve.
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby Monsta on Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:31 am

laofzu wrote:I have long since moved on to Debian
Wheezy with the Mate 1.6 desktop installed.

Do you plan to come back if the developers do what you demand? :)
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby laofzu on Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:12 pm

I would happily come back if LMDE was consistently maintained, and stable enough to use on my client's machines. I can't see that happening if it is based on debian testing instead of debian stable. I play with Debian Jessie on occasion, and it is still too unreliable to use for everyday work. If Linux Mint used testing, they would have to keep their repositories constantly updated with new packages as they become stable enough to be used safely. Considering that Linux Mint's first priorty is keeping up with new Ubuntu releases, I don't see how they will ever find the time and manpower to keep LMDE up to date unless it is based on debian stable instead of testing. Stable gives a much longer time frame to work with for Clem and other team members. If i switched back it would be simply for the ease of installation and setup, not performance. A Debian Wheezy/Mate 1.6 combination works great, but requires much more installation and configuration time. I want what works best for my clients for the long term. They don't have any desire to update every six months or year. The Debian stable cylce works for them because that is about how often they need to have their equipment replaced or serviced anyway.
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby Crewp on Fri Sep 06, 2013 6:58 pm

I find LMDE very stable, no problems, and although the UP's don't always arrive on a set schedule, when they do, everything works :D
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby jasonsmith on Tue Feb 04, 2014 11:56 pm

One approach to software is to deliver on time.

Another approach to software is to deliver when it's ready.

If you keep an eye on the areas of the forum and community where people are testing incoming, you will notice that UP8 has been allowed to stabilize for some time. Rather than picking a date and sticking to it, they define the work and keep at it until it is done. In this case, UP8 had to be preceded by the release of Mint 16.

In other words, if updates don't come fast enough for your tastes, that doesn't mean that LMDE's approach is invalid. Between Update Packs, it is very stable.

If you are willing to put up with occasional breakage, you can get more frequent updates by switching over to the incoming repositories. And help test.

And if you are really unsatisfied with this distribution, there are tons of choices out there. Linux does not lack for choice! Hop around to other distros (there are literally hundreds), try 'em on for size. And Debian straight up isn't a bad choice. Good luck, and try not to be so frustrated. This stuff is supposed to be fun!
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby tenfoot on Wed Feb 05, 2014 3:56 pm

laofzu wrote:Since Linux Mint is unable or unwilling to keep LMDE up-to-date, perhaps they should just drop it altogether or turn it over to a community to maintain. I have long since moved on to Debian
Wheezy with the Mate 1.6 desktop installed. Works fine, no need to wait anymore for Linux Mint to release new updated isos. Should be good until the next Debian stable release far down the road. Not always the latest packages, but definitely dependable for getting work done everyday which is what matters to the clients I serve.



An alternative for you could by SolydXK. You have a choice of the XFCE or KDE desktop Managers. The distribution is based on Debian Testing and has regular quarterly updates.

Have a look at http://www.solydxk.com
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby jjhiza on Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:13 am

laofzu wrote:Since Linux Mint is unable or unwilling to keep LMDE up-to-date, perhaps they should just drop it altogether or turn it over to a community to maintain. I have long since moved on to Debian
Wheezy with the Mate 1.6 desktop installed. Works fine, no need to wait anymore for Linux Mint to release new updated isos. Should be good until the next Debian stable release far down the road. Not always the latest packages, but definitely dependable for getting work done everyday which is what matters to the clients I serve.


Not to be disrespectful, but your take on the release cycle doesn't really make sense to me, and here's why... On one hand, you're asking for LMDE to be updated more frequently. That's all fine and good, but more frequent updates can come hand-in-hand with increased package breakage. That potentiality seems to fly in the face of your stated reason for using a Debian-based distro - stability. Which leads me to my second point; Instead of opting for a distro that updates more rapidly, like Arch, you went the other direction, and installed Wheezy (aka Stable), which is only updated - at most - once a year. Yes, it fills your need for a stable distribution that you can deploy for your clients and for personal use, but Stable certainly doesn't fit your criteria of a distro that is "up-to-date".

LMDE has a release cycle that gives updates more frequently than Wheezy (more up-to-date packages), and provides the same/similar level of stability, since LMDE pulls from the Testing branch, and then puts it through additional tests, prior to release of the snapshot UP's. In my opinion, that provides you the best of both worlds - a distro that's stable enough for regular, daily usage, while still receiving more frequent updates than its parent distribution.

Personally, that's exactly why I switched to LMDE from Mint 16. I really like Mint, but I don't like having to blow up my install every 6 months to a year, just to get the latest and greatest packages. I also disagree with Canonical's (and therefore Ubuntu's) policies regarding stability and security. Unfortunately, that presented me with questions regarding whether or not I could continue using an Ubuntu-based distro. I ran Arch for several months, but the need for constant maintenance really turned me off, and I'm not interested in having to build all of my packages from source, every time I want something new. Sure, it's a rolling release, and I always had up-to-date packages, but I had to sacrifice and dedicate a great deal of time to keep Arch running the way I wanted it to. LMDE provides me with a perfect blend... No need to reinstall my distro, and no/very few concerns about stability and performance.

As I just stated, there's going to be a tradeoff when you place value on one thing (updates) over another (serious stability). Wheezy doesn't provide update value, because it's frozen, but it does give you stability. You also have the drawback of having to reinstall the distro every time it updates to a new version...Not ideal if you ask me. Arch gives you updates on demand, but the potential for serious breakage is always there. Again, this is just my opinion, but I feel that LMDE provides users with an ideal distribution; A distro that updates without the need for a reinstall, more frequent updates than Wheezy, while still boasting the stability for which Debian is famous. To that point, I would rather see Clem move the team away from the mainline Ubuntu-based distros, and focus more attention on this branch.
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby KBD47 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:03 am

I suspect something will have to give eventually. These guys can only do so much with the resources and manpower they have. Right now they are turning out Ubuntu based releases with about 8 mos? support. That seems a waste of manpower. And the LMDE update packs are hit or miss with users. They are simply too far apart and too large. My two cents which is nothing but my view from the outside looking in:
Drop everything except:

Ubuntu-based LTS releases with point release updated iso's.
Either LMDE pure Debian Testing rolling releases the user is responsible for maintaining.

And/Or
LMDE based on Debian Stable with a repo for updated Firefox and desktop updates.

That would seem a better way to conserve resources and provide a selection of very stable releases and a reasonably updated Debian edition that wouldn't eat up lots of time and resources.
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby Crewp on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:25 pm

jjhiza I couldn't agree more with what you said, but I also agree that Linux Mint should focus on the LTS versions as KBD47 stated because a 9 month support cycle has got to be tough on the devs. With LMDE and Linux Mint LTS would allow the devs to hone Mint to a Master piece of open source OS's. I just hope the debian base mint does not disappear.
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby Zorba on Tue Mar 04, 2014 4:29 pm

jjhiza you said it all :D
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby Ubulindy on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:47 pm

I agree with jjhiza . This has turned out to be the best of both worlds. Mint which I love, choice of environments, and a rolling release, which Ive found very stable. When you need help you can get help here, or hop into IRC. Clem and the rest of the gang rock!! I couldn't be happier. There's no reason for me to ever distro hop again, or do reinstalls. Was quite tired of that. Ive tried every distro out there almost. Some were quite nice, others not so much. Just always ended up coming back to Mint. Now with LMDE, I never have to leave again. Thanks alot guys! You do a great job!!! <3
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby KBD47 on Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:55 pm

Just a quick note about Debian Stable:
It gets continual security updates, it has backports that allow for newer software, and if for instance you install Chrome browser, it will continually update from its own repo. There are ways to use a Debian Stable base and not have ancient software. Also after 3 years of support you can do a distribution upgrade to the next Debian Stable release. Not only that, if you get too bored with Debian Stable you can go ahead and do a dist-upgrade to Jessie, then to Sid as I recently did with one install. Debian offers lots of options. Would hate to see Mint completely abandon it, but I do believe LMDE approach needs a re-think regarding the update pack system currently used.
My two cents.
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby Orbmiser on Wed Mar 05, 2014 2:23 am

As mentioned SolydXK but that is only if wanting KDE or Xfce. Now based on quarterly update packs. And is based on testing branch. In over 6 months have had zero issues smooth & stable and is pretty fresh with most apps being 1-3 months behind.

And found testing to be a misnomer as my experience has been stable for me.
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby MadmanRB on Wed Mar 05, 2014 11:52 am

For me the lack of frequent updates is the reason why LMDE is so unpopular, and to be honest I think upgrades should come more often like on a bi mopnthly basis as opposed to an upgrade every 60 years (so it seems on the end users perspective)
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby killer de bug on Wed Mar 05, 2014 3:09 pm

It's easy to request things, but to my knowledge, I didn't see your contribution on helping with the testing of UP8 MadmanRB... :wink:
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby MadmanRB on Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:23 am

killer de bug wrote:It's easy to request things, but to my knowledge, I didn't see your contribution on helping with the testing of UP8 MadmanRB... :wink:


Thats because I am, and let me make it clear to you so you understand, I am an end user that means I am not a tester by trade nor a builder.
I am the intended audience aka the non hardcore linux user who can hard code in their sleep, one does not have to be a hard coder to be a user of an OS.
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby sigshane on Thu Mar 06, 2014 7:58 am

MadmanRB wrote:...I am not a tester by trade nor a builder.
I am the intended audience aka the non hardcore linux user who can hard code in their sleep, one does not have to be a hard coder to be a user of an OS.


I disagree with this sentiment, MadmanRB.

It is usually the end user, not the "hard coder", who is instrumental in discovering the flaws in a program or piece of software. Using the program, noticing glitches, re-running to see if the problem persists, reporting the experience - THESE are the critical steps of testing/debugging, man!

See, you are already a very potential testing/debugging team member, and you won't even have to lose much sleep doing it!

If you feel empowered, then you ARE empowered!
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Re: Drop LMDE or turn it over to a community group!

Postby kurotsugi on Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:49 am

let's just stop here :3

this thread date is 27 aug 2013. at that time LMDE was on UP6 since around desember 2012 and didn't got updated until that date. several days later we got UP7 and since then LMDE got more frequent update. on top of that we got UP8 several weeks ago. the discussion about 'unmaintained LMDE' should be finished with the latest UP.
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