I know how unbreakable Debian Stable is. And if it is polished like Mint, and if some caution is applied with backporting necessary apps like LibreOffice and newer versions of Browsers, it will work great. For years I have used Stable with newer versions of Chrome browser without issue, so I don't see any problems with using a newer version of Firefox with Stable.Yeah I saw a while ago. It could play in the final choice.KBD47 wrote: Edit: BTW Debian is now extending long term support even beyond the normal 3 years.
https://www.debian.org/News/2014/20140424
Putting it on par with Ubuntu LTS support of 5 years, if anyone wanted to use the OS for 5 years without a distribution-upgrade.
For stability, even Testing is stable in my opinionKBD47 wrote:Debian Stable is aimed at running on servers flawlessly for many years. It almost impossible to beat for stability.
Firefox is packaged by Linux Mint team so no worries here. For other softwares that's much more difficult to sayxfrank wrote: 1 - the most important programs are backported (LibreOffice, Firefox...)
Debian Stable has a security team and fixes are coming much faster than in Testingxfrank wrote:2 - security issues are fixed
That's how Debian worksxfrank wrote:3 - the transition from the actual stable version to the next is easy and transparent (to keep the "rolling" essential nature of LMDE, that is, not to have to reinstall the OS ever).
It could be exactly like an UP...xfrank wrote:About the point 3: how a LMDE-Debian-Stable will transition from the actual version to the newer one? Automatically? changing the repos?
We need to wait for Debian Stable to catch us since we are halfway between Stable and TestingKBD47 wrote: BTW: Even if LMDE doesn't go with Stable, current LMDE users could follow Jessie into Freeze and out the other side with New Stable. It would mean a little work changing sources, the need to add some repositories, but it's been done before
Right. LMDE can really only be switched to the Debian Stable source when there is an LMDE iso released around the same time new Stable is released, either just before, or just after the new stable comes out. I have had success doing this in the past. MATE LMDE would probably be no problem whatsoever, Cinnamon LMDE might be a bit trickier. Probably when Jessie goes into freeze, depending upon the next Mint LMDE update pack, I will be switching my sources to Jessie on a Cinnamon LMDE install I have on an external drive. Of course I'm hoping LMDE will move to Stable next releasekiller de bug wrote:We need to wait for Debian Stable to catch us since we are halfway between Stable and TestingKBD47 wrote: BTW: Even if LMDE doesn't go with Stable, current LMDE users could follow Jessie into Freeze and out the other side with New Stable. It would mean a little work changing sources, the need to add some repositories, but it's been done before
LMDE on stable can not be done before Jessie is the new stable
It's all speculation, but since Debian has numerous backported packages in its backport repo, it would be kind of crazy to repeat those efforts. Perhaps the Mint team could use packages already backported to Debian, and then focus their efforts on anything they want backported that isn't already available.woodsman wrote:Okay, suppose LMDE moves to stable. That would pacify many users with respect to security updates. That leaves open the question of which packages to continually backport.
Creating a nominal backport list falls way short of the current Debian Backports effort. Should LMDE based on stable include the full Debian Backports? Why not? After all, most LMDE users choose LMDE for the basic reason of having recent versions installed.
you got it wrong. security updates have the highest priority and will migrate to testing in 1 or 2 days. regular updates takes 5-10 days. if any updates takes longer than 10 days it means something is wrong with the packages.I just read the manual... Testing has not security team. Update comes from Sid. It can take 2 days or 10 or 2 months...
So obvioulsy if security is the most important for the user, then use either Sid or Stable but not testing...
it's not quite true with current debian since debian testing now have always releasable testing policy.I'll give you a hint: Regressions happen all the time
You should really read the manual...kurotsugi wrote: you got it wrong. security updates have the highest priority and will migrate to testing in 1 or 2 days.
Wrong again... Seriously, read the manual. Thanks. 10 days is THE MINIMAL TIME!kurotsugi wrote: regular updates takes 5-10 days. if any updates takes longer than 10 days it means something is wrong with the packages.
Always releasable policy was a proposition. It's not applied.kurotsugi wrote:jessie is now boringly stable. cinnamon is the only DE didn't work with testing and the reason behind it isn't the regression in testing. rather it's because cinnamon didn't got updated since several months ago. on another hand, moving LMDE into stable actually didn't fix anything about security stuffs and the long period between UP. the frozen period started next september. it means LMDE is still based on testing until next year. do we expect to get no security updates until next year?
Normally with Debian there are two possibilities:xfrank wrote:About the point 3: how a LMDE-Debian-Stable will transition from the actual version to the newer one? Automatically? changing the repos?
I'm not familiar with "pure" Debian. Changing the sources seems straightforward, but would be nicer the scenario presented by Killer de Bug:py-thon wrote: Normally with Debian there are two possibilities:
1. your sources point to the repos using the version's name (currently wheezy) then you won't leave wheezy ever until you change your sources (from wheezy to jessie, which currently is testing and will be the name of the next stable version, or to stable).
2. your sources point to the repos using the version's type (that would be stable in this case) then you would automatically get a big update when the new stable version is published.
Killer de Bug wrote: It could be exactly like an UP...
One day Debian team release a new version and you get notified in Linux Mint Update Manager
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Update 2 Dec 2012- multiarch in testing: convert your system asap
Update 15 may 2012- cinnamon is to be removed with today's updates.
Update 7 may 2012- iceweasel12 is uninstallable in testing, see viewtopic.php?f=199&t=100493&p=576750#p576744
Update 12 march 2012- nvidia and VB fail against the new 3.2.0-2 kernel; reinstall the correspondent dkms modules viewtopic.php?f=198&t=67502&p=553788#p553773
Update 10 february 2012- kernel 3.2 enters testing - for now we have reports of breakages with nvidia viewtopic.php?f=198&t=67502&p=539953#p539934
Update 8 november 2011- GNOME-SHELL migrated to testing in today's updates.
Update 6 october 2011- don't update at the moment the python update brings several breakages
Update 28 september 2011- be careful with the xorg updates, there's severe issues both with ATI and nvidia follow them from here on
Update 10 august 2011- the 3.0 series kernel hits testing and brings issues, follow them from here viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=960#p458899
Update 5 august 2011- watch the new package dnet-common: it may break your wireless viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=457254#p457254
Update 12 july 2011- if you are not using latest or incoming watch out python-imaging upgrade - it will break MintInstall viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=447271#p447217
Update 2 july 2011- better hold the upgrades for now the new xorg and mesa will break the nvidia and ati drivers viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=680#p442574
Update 22 june 2011- Kernel updated to 39.2, in 32bit system the update will be to a 39.2-pae kernel; watch some issues with linux-headers not been automatically installed viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=438453#p438314
Update 15 june 2011- Adobe Flash update- if after the update, flash stops working, see Clem's post for troubleshooting viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=540#p435212 - and many thanks Clem for providing this support 8)
Update 4 june 2011- xchat is to be removed viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=431082#p431082
Update 17 May 2011- F-Spot fails to update viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=440#p423021
Update 13 May 2011- issues with legacy nvidia-cards: one report here viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=421418#p421407
Update 30 Apr 2011- a couple of updates are due: first grub was updated to v. rc1-13 what brought a few bugs in special setups (raid and multi-hdd systems) and the "error: symbol not found: grub_env_export" see here: viewtopic.php?f=141&t=71374 here viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=340#p414088 and here viewtopic.php?f=141&t=71603 , and lately gstreamer viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=360#p415117
Update 12 Apr 2011- The .38 kernel arrived to LMDE, together with xorg updates, so expect some issues and follow the thread from this point viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=200#p407043;
- Also mintsystem pkg was updated to v. 7.7.5 and for now the most notorious change was the removal of the "mark all upgrades" button in synaptic, this thread covers the issue viewtopic.php?f=141&t=70449&start=0
Update 30 Mar 2011- MintMenu v 5.1.7 has a bug in the show recent document plugin, already fixed in v. 5.1.8 viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=401714#p401735, so please upgrade your system;
Update 23 Mar 2011- the upgrade of kexec-tools to version 2.0.1-4, disabled the ability of reboot into grub, the system reboots, to boot again without going though grub;
Chech viking777 post for more info about the issue
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&start=60#p398542
Update 20 Mar 2011- Attention ATI users: refer to these posts please:
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=397378#p397258
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=67502&p=397378#p397374
viewtopic.php?f=141&t=68729
Update 16 Mar 2011- LibreOffice came in today's updates, it will ask you to remove part of OpenOffice (even if in the same process other part of OO will be updated -the process is not so clean as in sid, where the change was made in one move).
Depending on the customizations you made on your system the change should be smooth, ending with a full replacement of OO with LO, if for some some reason that doesn't happen there's a new metapackage called libreoffice that should take care of it.
Update 4 Mar 2011- The vlc/libva1 issue is solved. If you pinned/unmarked libva1 from update, can now proceed safely; if you chose to remove vlc, look in synaptic for the new vlc 1.1.7 and install it; if you didn't update your system at all in these days can now do it.
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03-05-13 Chrome-unstable viewtopic.php?f=198&t=132747&p=715343#p714796
25-05-13 Python3.3 transition viewtopic.php?f=198&t=132747#p722624
13-6-13 Kernel upgrade viewtopic.php?f=198&t=132747&start=40#p730550
12-8-13 gjs upgrade removes cinnamon/nemo viewtopic.php?f=198&t=132747&p=753080#p752564
02-04-14 upgrade from libcogl12 to libcogl20 removes cinnamon viewtopic.php?f=198&t=132747&start=140#p842700
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lack of critical bugs, or, at least fewer than the version currently included in Testing;
at least 10 days spent in Unstable, which is sufficient time to find and report any serious problems;
successful compilation on all officially supported architectures;
dependencies that can be satisfied in Testing, or that can at least be moved there together with the package in questionYou're an unlucky guy... This book is really up to date and written by one of the top contributor of Debian since 10 years...kurotsugi wrote: @killer: as for the handbook...when did that handbook created? you need to update your information and see how debian's developer work.
Yes it does. For the highest priority minimal time is 2 days. Not 1 or 0. It's 2 days. And this is the minimal time. Sometimes the package doesn't reach testing even after 10 days... This is because of the dependencies... Of course a package can migrate after 5 days. But it was supposed to move after 2. 5 days is not a normal time... It's either 2 or 10 days for the minimal waiting time.kurotsugi wrote: the time limit doesn't apply for security updates from sid. FYI a package in sid have a certain urgency level.
No! That's wrong I already told you to read the manual. Read it please. If you don't understand something ask your question, but don't post wrong information.kurotsugi wrote: the time limit could be vary between 1, 2, 5, or 10 depends on the urgency level.
This is definitely on topic. If you don't understand how it's work for package migration from Sid to testing, how can you discuss this issue.kurotsugi wrote: anyway, let's stay more on the topic. we were discussing about
1. whether if debian testing got their security managed. you was saying "testing didn't got regular security updates". then I were showing the proof that it wasn't true. it clearly shown that testing got regular security updates. your point about debian's handbook and the time limit for the package migration IMO is a lil bit way OOT. it doesn't change the fact that testing got regular security updates.