Mint 22 open thread

[AZgl1800]

I am looking forward to 22, but I am worried from what I am hearing from Ubuntu-land about some of their design choices that might make Mint 22 a difficult design. Also it looks like Wayland is going to be a big deal in Ubuntu 24.04 so I wonder if that is going to have any effect on 22?

Clem talked about Wayland in the October issue of https://blog.linuxmint.com/

Wayland

The work started on Wayland. As mentioned earlier this year, this was identified as one of the major challenges our project had to tackle in the mid to long term. Priority had been given to ISO tools and Secureboot over new features for 21.3 already, we felt it was time to invest some resources into Wayland as well.

he goes on for several paragraphs, follow the link to get caught up

[MurphCID]

I did, I am worried that Ubuntu may force the pace of Wayland before Clem and crew have things ready.

[JosephM]

I did, I am worried that Ubuntu may force the pace of Wayland before Clem and crew have things ready.

How? Wayland support is DE dependent. Only a couple of desktops currently support it well. Many of Ubuntus own flavors don't currently support it.

[MurphCID]

I did, I am worried that Ubuntu may force the pace of Wayland before Clem and crew have things ready.

How? Wayland support is DE dependent. Only a couple of desktops currently support it well. Many of Ubuntus own flavors don't currently support it.

I thought it was tied into the OS like Microsoft does with Windows. I had not realized it was a completely stand alone system which was only part of the DE/Window manager. That clarifies things for me.

[spamegg]

I thought it was tied into the OS like Microsoft does with Windows. I had not realized it was a completely stand alone system which was only part of the DE/Window manager. That clarifies things for me.

On top of that, Mint's DE / Window Manager have their own codebases anyway. The DE (Cinnamon) is based on GTK3 and the Window Manager (Muffin) is based on Gnome's Mutter but not directly (that's why there was a Muffin code rebase with Mint 21 to get it closer to Mutter). The DM (display manager) LightDM is protocol agnostic, should work with both X11 and Wayland (even Mir ) https://github.com/canonical/lightdm.

[Hoser Rob]

I did, I am worried that Ubuntu may force the pace of Wayland before Clem and crew have things ready.

It isn't Ubuntu 'forcing' Wayland or anything else. It's the Gnome project that's pushing the development of Wayland so much (and to a somewhat lesser degree KDE). Ubuntu supports other desktops, including but not limited to all the ones Mint supports, and only Gnome and KDE have Wayland now really.

Ubuntu does not force snaps or telemetry etc on any one either. You can opt out quite easily.

[JosephM]

I thought it was tied into the OS like Microsoft does with Windows. I had not realized it was a completely stand alone system which was only part of the DE/Window manager. That clarifies things for me.

On top of that, Mint's DE / Window Manager have their own codebases anyway. The DE (Cinnamon) is based on GTK3 and the Window Manager (Muffin) is based on Gnome's Mutter but not directly (that's why there was a Muffin code rebase with Mint 21 to get it closer to Mutter). The DM (display manager) LightDM is protocol agnostic, should work with both X11 and Wayland (even Mir ) https://github.com/canonical/lightdm.

This isn't quite correct. Cinnamon is based on the Clutter toolkit. Clutter is a built in part of Muffin and it's all forked from Mutter/GNOME shell. Only the external apps like Cinnamon Settings are built with GTK3. All other UI elements such as the panel, run dialog, notifications, etc. are built using Clutter. That's why they use a separate theme.

[MurphCID]

That clears things up to a degree, I was confused as to the whole Wayland thing, and since it replacing "X" Windows, was not sure how deeply it is tied into the basic OS.

[thomasreed]

I downloaded the archive, opened it up and got the file yt-dlp_linux, and renamed it, but I can't move it into the usr/local/bin folder. When I open up the Permissions tab for the folder, it has a message saying "You are not the owner, so you cannot change these permissions." Do I have to move it through the terminal window with a sudo command? There is also a file in the folder, apparently associated with the Evil Python, named yt-dlp. Do I need to delete that file through the terminal window as well? Sorry, I'm kind of a novice at file manipulations. Thanks in advance for the help!

Yes, move it on the Terminal. Assuming, on the Terminal, you are already inside the directory with the yt-dlp file that you downloaded and renamed. (Probably ~/Downloads so you can go there with cd ~/Downloads). Then

Code: Select all

sudo mv yt-dlp /usr/local/bin

Otherwise in the File Manager, you can right-click inside /usr/local/bin and "Open as root" then move the file into it, but using graphical applications as root is generally not recommended.

Thanks, spamegg! I wanted to reply on your web site listing posted with your post, but there doesn't seem to be a place to simply send a message. As mentioned, I found a version of yt-dlp that works without any of those stupid Python installations. So, until my next instance of Thanos dropping in and killing half my system, be assured that you are a brilliant, talented and gracious person.

[spamegg]

This isn't quite correct. Cinnamon is based on the Clutter toolkit. Clutter is a built in part of Muffin and it's all forked from Mutter/GNOME shell.

Didn't know that, thanks JosephM! You have a green user name, you must be a Mint dev. I think I remember seeing your name on Github.

So, until my next instance of Thanos dropping in and killing half my system, be assured that you are a brilliant, talented and gracious person.

You're welcome.
We should really thank the yt-dlp people for making that non-Python version.

[MurphCID]

I, for one, am starting to really get the anticipation bug for 22, now that some leaks are starting on Ubuntu 24.04. So I am really getting stoked for what Clem and company will provide. I just know it will be another excellent offering.

[MurphCID]

Just a thought, with Ubuntu going to the NON LTS 6.8 kernel, does this mean that Ubuntu and conversely Mint will be using more of the latest kernels to keep up with new CPU/GPU technology? I just thought about this, so if Ubuntu starts pushing out 6.8/6.9/6.10 etc kernels will Mint follow? And also are LTS kernels effectively dead since they only last two years? I wonder if that is behind the Ubuntu decision?

[MurphCID]

I am highly excited after reading the latest blog post by Clem. Mint 22 looks like it is going to be a real winner! Now I have no idea what Deb822 really is, since I read the post and the link and did not understand what it did or what it was supposed to do. As for Mint (and Linux) it already is so space efficient that my 500gb drives "feel" like a 1tb drive under Microsoft, and making it even more space efficient is just amazing. I am VERY excited about the up to date Kernels being included, this will be a world changer for those of us with new(ish) hardware. I have been hoping for this for a very long time. Very exciting blog and it gives me a lot of hope for the future of Mint.


https://blog.linuxmint.com/

[spamegg]

Just a thought, with Ubuntu going to the NON LTS 6.8 kernel, does this mean that Ubuntu and conversely Mint will be using more of the latest kernels to keep up with new CPU/GPU technology?

I don't think so. Ubuntu will maintain it themselves.
Look at "Distribution kernels" here: https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

Many Linux distributions provide their own "longterm maintenance" kernels that may or may not be based on those maintained by kernel developers. These kernel releases are not hosted at kernel.org and kernel developers can provide no support for them.

And also are LTS kernels effectively dead since they only last two years?

On the Linux side yes, "LTS kernel" does not have much meaning anymore to me. 2 years is not "long term".

On the Ubuntu side, no. I think Ubuntu will simply provide their normal 5-year support by themselves. Just more work for them.

I wonder if that is behind the Ubuntu decision?

I absolutely think so.
They wanted to start off with an "as new as possible" kernel to buy as much time from upstream as they could.
That just makes sense. They are trying to minimize the LTS maintenance they have to do by themselves.
Work on 6.8 barely finished in March, so that's the newest possible starting point Ubuntu could have chosen for an April release.
It's a tough squeeze and it's risky but I can understand their decision.
This way, at least they are covered until 26.04 release, without having to switch.

so if Ubuntu starts pushing out 6.8/6.9/6.10 etc kernels will Mint follow?

I don't think Ubuntu will do that (except for the usual HWE stuff), but if they did (for LTS), yes Mint would follow them of course.

Well, maybe I'm wrong: Clem said

Ubuntu 22.04.x releases used HWE kernels, and version 24.04 is set to use kernel 6.8.

During the last two years we didn’t observe significant differences in terms of stability between LTS and HWE series. Both were pretty stable. A growing number of users with new laptops/chipsets relied on EDGE images to be able to install Linux Mint though.

Linux Mint 22 will follow Ubuntu going forward and ship with new kernel series release after release.

Not really sure what this means, it's too vague.
"Release after release" could mean that 22.1 will get a newer kernel,
22.2 will get a kernel newer than that, etc.

So maybe you are right actually! I guess we'll see.

I still think Ubuntu will definitely have a 5-year long unchanging kernel version,
at least for their business customers.
I would be very surprised if they didn't.
A big kernel change / upgrade can cause significant problems for business users.

[spamegg]

I am highly excited after reading the latest blog post by Clem. Mint 22 looks like it is going to be a real winner! Now I have no idea what Deb822 really is, since I read the post and the link and did not understand what it did or what it was supposed to do. As for Mint (and Linux) it already is so space efficient that my 500gb drives "feel" like a 1tb drive under Microsoft, and making it even more space efficient is just amazing. I am VERY excited about the up to date Kernels being included, this will be a world changer for those of us with new(ish) hardware. I have been hoping for this for a very long time. Very exciting blog and it gives me a lot of hope for the future of Mint.

The future looks bright indeed
Newer kernels are actually good for not-so-new(ish) hardware too, as they have improved performance in many areas.

[MurphCID]

The future looks bright indeed
Newer kernels are actually good for not-so-new(ish) hardware too, as they have improved performance in many areas.

I am getting really jazzed by what I am reading on Mint 22. It looks to be a very solid release.