Confusion .... What don't I understand ?

[Newbie221]

I've just started my journey into LinuxMint. Downloaded and installed on a old laptop to check things out about a week ago.
The main reason I'm doing this, like many others, is an attempt to break away from the never ending spying and controls placed upon us.

My Confusion;
While doing research on what programs I want to run on my "new" laptop, I keep coming across tech related articles and videos of how to use/run Google and Microsoft apps and software.
I thought the whole idea was to break away from these companies. Hence my confusion.

If I'm missing something please chime in and help me understand. It seems to me that if I had to use those services it would be way easier to stick with a windows machine.

Thanks for your time
Newbie221

[gittiest personITW]

Welcome to the forums.
I don't run any programs by the companies you mention (although there is a time and a place to use them if and when I want to) and I'm sure many others don't either.

What is it exactly you are wanting to do with your computer? Word processing, games, etc?
You don't say what you are wanting to do.

It seems that the equivalent might be that you have a car and when you go to fill up the tank with fuel you go into the shop and pay, but you are seeing all the pretty packs of crisps and chocolates. You don't actually have to buy those crisps and chocolates - but you can if you want.
You don't have to install 'google' stuff etc.

I think you might be typing the wrong things into a search engine - or worse, looking in the wrong place for info. These forums a great place to start - so ask your questions here rather than on Reddit or Youtube.

Look here for some great info on how to start your 'journey':
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.com/p/2.html

[Hoser Rob]

Some users do need MS or Google, and I think a lot of Linux users ditch all their Windows too quickly. Many of these programs are business related or games. It's just a fact that many of the most popular Windows programs have no Linux version. And Wine is a dumb idea that doesn't work with most Windows programs. All of the other Linux "Windows emulators that say they aren't emulators" are just front ends for Wine and so work no better.

You could keep a Windows box or dual boot with Windows or run it in a virtual machine.

[Catsbark]

Hello Newbie221, and welcome to Linux Mint and to the Forum.

Some Windows apps have no worthy Linux replacement. Some Linux users are required to use certain specific applications for work. Some Linux users have a strong motivation to continue using a particular Windows app. I have about 20 years of financial data in Quicken 2012, and even if I determined to switch to a Linux-native bookkeeping program, I have tried most of them and I don't like the workflow.

For these and other reasons, a Linux user might want or need to run a Windows application. That's where dual-booting, Wine, and Virtual Machines come in. I prefer VMs myself, so when I need to use Quicken, I launch my Windows 10 VM, take care of business, and shut it down. I would prefer a Linux-native solution, but Intuit doesn't seem interested.

Then there are games....

[Schultz]

I do not corrupt my Linux system by using Wine (or Mono). When I started, I dual booted because I have 3 or 4 apps for Windows that I can't do without. But dual booting got pretty old pretty quickly, so I bought a cheap refurbished computer for Windows, and made my good computer solely for Linux.

The link below is a good website to read up on Mint (and Linux in general). It is by Pjotr, a member here on the forum. You should read especially the page on security (if you think you need an AV on Linux, NO, you don't).

https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.com/p/2.html

[Hoser Rob]

Yup, you really can corrupt the system with Wine. If it can run a Windows program it can run a Windows virus.

[Dullard du Jour]

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My Confusion;
While doing research on what programs I want to run on my "new" laptop, I keep coming across tech related articles and videos of how to use/run Google and Microsoft apps and software.
I thought the whole idea was to break away from these companies. Hence my confusion.
.
.

Your confusion is based on it is one or the other to use. It is not either a 'Linux' or 'Microsoft' philosophy, Linux did not start out that way. However, over the years Linux became an avenue for those disgruntled with Microsoft's antics and ethics, and those that wanted the world to have free, unencumbered software, etc. to pit one against the other. Microsoft was the corporate virus and Linux was the cure.

If you are entrenched in the Microsoft world, you should stay there as there are very few MS programs that also are on Linux, at the client level anyway. There are Linux substitutes for many MS programs, but they have their own learning curve and seldom mimic the GUI or flow of the MS programs, and often lack in the same features. As well, you will find that most Linux programs are named by creators that are lacking in the ability to assign a name to a program that actually reflects the purpose of the program. That can be fairly vexing for the average user coming from Windows. You will have to learn many, many new OS centric commands and tools, it is a learning curve, but not a steep one.

But, there are advantages to Linux. You will no longer buy a firewall or virus program, that is money saved every year due to the subscription format used by most AV companies these days. In most cases, you will find plenty of free software to use. Your PC security is enhanced, updates and upgrades are generally quick, and they are free. No longer will you wait hours for MS updates, or have your PC sluggish as MS updates it behind the scenes. Your net activity and PC activity are no longer monitored.

You will need to decide how much of each world you want to be in, and for what purpose. Many users dual boot, other users have Linux and Windows on separate computers, each serving a purpose.

[spamegg]

I keep coming across tech related articles and videos of how to use/run Google and Microsoft apps and software.
I thought the whole idea was to break away from these companies. Hence my confusion.

Unfortunately many users try to replicate their Windows / Mac experience on Linux.
Often they are not motivated by a genuine privacy concern, more of a vague negative feeling against Microsoft / Apple.
But they don't want to part with their favorite "professional polished software from a big corporation".
Even if the software has an equal / better Linux equivalent that's an easy replacement.
It's a strange phenomenon, where they both love and hate the corporation at the same time.
Humans are weird and self-contradictory! They have always been.
Don't think too hard or be confused about it. Humans just being humans.

[Newbie221]

Thanks to all for your responses !!!

I guess I fall into the category of those who wish to leave it all behind.
I’m looking forward to a new ecosystem to do my daily activities that require the use of my computer. Perhaps my view of why people switch to Linux based systems is skewed by the comment sections of the articles and videos I see and read. It just seamed odd to me, with so much security/spying concern, I would find so much information on co-mingling of the platforms.

I will however admit I do like the look and function of a lot of what I’m leaving behind. In some ways I feel as if I’m taking a few steps backwards.

I did take a look at the blogspot that was suggested, excellent recommendation. I did read the security section, it answered some questions I had. I book marked it and plan to go back and do some more reading.


Thanks for your time
Newbie221

[gittiest personITW]

Excellent.
As you have seen, Linux (and especially Mint) is all about choice.
No one will tell you what you MUST or MUST NOT have.

If you have any other more specific questions, probably best to start a new thread.

Good luck.

[KMD2023]

I've just started my journey into LinuxMint. Downloaded and installed on a old laptop to check things out about a week ago.
The main reason I'm doing this, like many others, is an attempt to break away from the never ending spying and controls placed upon us.

My Confusion;
While doing research on what programs I want to run on my "new" laptop, I keep coming across tech related articles and videos of how to use/run Google and Microsoft apps and software.
I thought the whole idea was to break away from these companies. Hence my confusion.

If I'm missing something please chime in and help me understand. It seems to me that if I had to use those services it would be way easier to stick with a windows machine.

Thanks for your time
Newbie221

Newbie221,

Alternatives to various programs can be found at https://alternativeto.net/
(not an advertisement, just a site I use occasionally)

Hope this helps you

[Hoser Rob]

I do install Chrome but my default is Firefox ESR and that's what I almost always use nowadays. I still want Chrome because doe to Linux compatibility issues etc some sites will only work with Chrome (not even Google Chromium).

Remember that there's a big difference between not using any Google app software and totally avoiding Google. Their infrastructure is so ubiquitous that it's almost impossible to completely avoid it,

[Peter Linu]

Hi Newbie221 and welcome to the forum.
I have no ideas why it wasn't mentioned by the more senior members however after trying a separate computer with Windows,
dual booting and Wine, I found the perfect solution with Oracle VM Virtualbox. On it I have Win10 (and other OSs). I access Win10 probably twice a year. It works perfectly. I have disabled updates so it doesn't bug me or cause problems.

Oh, when looking for Virtualbox do not go to Mint's Program Manager, go directly to the Oracle website. It's not so much to do with getting the latest and greatest but more about getting matching components.

[Hoser Rob]

My Confusion;
While doing research on what programs I want to run on my "new" laptop, I keep coming across tech related articles and videos of how to use/run Google and Microsoft apps and software.
I thought the whole idea was to break away from these companies. Hence my confusion.

Your confusion is based on it is one or the other to use. It is not either a 'Linux' or 'Microsoft' philosophy, Linux did not start out that way.

No, it didn't. It was originally designed to be an open source drop in compatible replacement for the Unix kernel. Unix came out before even MS-DOS (released 1975 I think), and it was closed source and quite corporate.

However, over the years Linux became an avenue for those disgruntled with Microsoft's antics and ethics, and those that wanted the world to have free, unencumbered software, etc. to pit one against the other. Microsoft was the corporate virus and Linux was the cure.

Yes, it did, but it was and is other things to other people too. Many users seem to think that the main purpose of Linux is what they want it for. It may be an anticorporate stance or a security thing or compatibility with old hardware etc.

Linux may be open source, and it's true that no one owns Linux and it's created by a foundation (the Linux Kernel Project), not a corporation. However the LKP gets a ton of corporate funding from a lot of very big companies and has for years. That includes Microsoft.

Also remember that IBM owns Red Hat, and they're probably the most influential Linux distro around. For example, a lot of Debian developers are Red Hat employees. They're the reason that systemd is so ubiquitous nowadays. Also Gnome.

[Newbie221]

Hi Newbie221 and welcome to the forum.
I have no ideas why it wasn't mentioned by the more senior members however after trying a separate computer with Windows,
dual booting and Wine, I found the perfect solution with Oracle VM Virtualbox. On it I have Win10 (and other OSs). I access Win10 probably twice a year. It works perfectly. I have disabled updates so it doesn't bug me or cause problems.

Oh, when looking for Virtualbox do not go to Mint's Program Manager, go directly to the Oracle website. It's not so much to do with getting the latest and greatest but more about getting matching components.

I've got zero interest in VM or duel boot setups !!!
My goal is to do a complete transition to the Linux ecosystem. How long it takes me to get there could be another story.
I am finding this to be a bit of a challenge, I'm not what you'd call a computer geek who is nerdy about this stuff.


Thanks for your time
Newbie221

[spamegg]

My goal is to do a complete transition to the Linux ecosystem. How long it takes me to get there could be another story.
I am finding this to be a bit of a challenge, I'm not what you'd call a computer geek who is nerdy about this stuff.

This is always a good read: https://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Prepare to suffer for a year or two!
If you have very new or special / "edge case" hardware (weird laptop wifi, hybrid graphics, some printers, special peripherals like capture cards, audio / video hardware, "gaming" mouse / keyboard / headset etc.), the kernel may not fully support it.

Say goodbye to all your Windows software, GUI habits, and most games. Sometimes there are good alternatives but often Linux lacks quality GUI and apps. I think they are good, but often people find them inadequate, so I am presenting it from their perspective.

You can run into bugs / issues and they may not get fixed for several years (due to how slow and unfunded / unsupported open source generally is). Also developers can decide to "improve" (remove) features you liked and used for years, or make breaking changes often (lack of backwards compatibility).

Being a geek / nerd definitely helps a lot with Linux. It's mainly made by nerds, for nerds, to do nerdy things. "Ordinary people" can use it too, but often they don't find what they expect.

Now, I am a nerd, I don't game much, I don't have any attachment to polished GUI or "professional" apps, I don't have new / edge case hardware, or audio / video, I don't do networking / NAS stuff, I'm very technical and can solve problems by myself, and I mostly do programming. So Linux is perfect for me.

Be prepared for the possibility that, at the end of your journey, it turns out Linux is not for you, or the trade-off (giving up convenience for more privacy) is not as worth it as you thought.
Not trying to scare you, just being honest and preparing you!
Hope I am not coming across the wrong way.

[wwblm]

Being a geek / nerd definitely helps a lot with Linux. It's mainly made by nerds, for nerds, to do nerdy things. "Ordinary people" can use it too, but often they don't find what they expect.

I don't necessarily disagree with that. However, I do think that more and more people primarily use a computer for web apps, social media, streaming, etc. They are not nerds and don't care to do nerdy stuff on their computer. All my wife knows about the difference between Windows and Linux is that her computer is faster and less frustrating to use. Probably my configuration and spending 10 minutes with her showing how she can get to what she wants helped in that regard. Bottom line is one day she was on Windows and the next day she was on Linux. She does now what she did before.

[Newbie221]

This is always a good read: https://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

Havn't read it yet but I will.
Gave it a quick scan and it appears to be a lot of what I may have come across in my research leading up to me doing this.

Not trying to scare you, just being honest and preparing you!
Hope I am not coming across the wrong way.

Not at all. I appreciate the frankness of your response.

I came it to this aware of the challenge it's gonna be.
I got into Windows when Vista was released (2006 ???) knew nothing about computers,self taught and now others ask me for help. So now it looks like I'm kinda doing it again !!!


Thanks for your time
Newbie221

[Dullard du Jour]

I don't necessarily disagree with that. However, I do think that more and more people primarily use a computer for web apps, social media, streaming, etc. They are not nerds and don't care to do nerdy stuff on their computer.
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That would pretty much be me. Retired from a Windows centric workplace and no longer need Windows for anything. My world is now web apps, browsers, internet, streaming, etc. For the little bit of letter writing and printing I do, LibreOffice is excellent, and my Brothers MFC-L8610CDW was instantly seen by Mint. Mint is a boon for us old folks, easy to use and trouble free. I have no need to ever go back to Windows.

[Newbie221]

This is always a good read: https://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

This article gets right to the heart of my original post !!!
I only referenced one aspect of it but it certainly hits the overall gist of my confusion.


Thanks for your time
Newbie221