Mint 11 KDE development

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craig10x
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby craig10x » Sat May 28, 2011 9:49 pm

kmb42vt wrote:
craig10x wrote:I was just reading the new thread about the interview with Clem in which he talks about the various things he will be developing for LMDE now that he is wrapping up Mint 11...If some of the rough edges can be smoothed out (including optional auto-install options) as well as the new "stable monthly snapshot" updates as an alternative to the standard debian testing way of updating, it sounds very promising that debian base for gnome and kde could work out to a very nice rolling and pretty stable distro...I hope it develops nicely :D


Which thread is that? Could you post a link? (sometimes I miss the obvious you know?)


Sure :wink: Here it is: :D
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=73547

Shoot_The_Alien!
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby Shoot_The_Alien! » Sun May 29, 2011 7:13 am

kmb42vt wrote:
Boo wrote:I have been doing development since Kubuntu Beta1, Beta2 and now final.
What problems have been found... my network connection rarely comes up and the nVidea drivers can cause all sorts of problems.
Networking is some sort of auto-eth0 issue not being created or something lower down the driver chain.

Has anyone else been playing with Kubuntu and having similar network issues?

no network connection makes it really hard to do development.

Linux Mint 10 KDE on the same machine runs no problems.

Cheers
Jamie


Now that I've finally had time to load up Kubuntu 11.04 into a test partition (and beat it into some form of usability--I like my codecs dammit! :D ) the one thing I haven't had a problem with is my network. I'm running a standard Comcast cable modem hooked into a wireless/Ethernet hub and I'm connected at login without fail from the initial Kubuntu install. Both mine and my wife's computer are hooked into the same wireless/Ethernet hub (her OS is Windows 7 and both our connections are wired) and I can log into hers without a problem as well. Now the one glitch I've seen so far with 11.04 which has been present in every KDE network manager I've used in past versions of KDE is that under 'Network Management Settings' my wired connection has never shown up however, it does show up in the pop-up window when you click on the network icon in the tray.

I'll post a couple of screen grabs so you can see what I mean.

As far as the Nvidia drivers are concerned I'm not able to test at the moment due to a faulty Nvida GT220 card. As soon as I can pick up a replacement I'll test that as well.


I wonder if someone can help me with this because this is what I see too.

I need to set up a DSL connection with username/password. These details are accepted into the config but I can't activate it. Instead, my system connects to "something" as soon as the cable is inserted but the speed I have with this is only a fraction of what it should be. A similar thing sometimes happens with my Mandriva 2010.2 / Windows 7 dual boot after I've been booted into Windows. The work around for this was to disable the eth0 from active connections via the tray icon and then reactivate ppp0. I can't seem to find out how to do this with Mint?

fioan89
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby fioan89 » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:17 am

I wonder if someone can help me with this because this is what I see too.

I need to set up a DSL connection with username/password. These details are accepted into the config but I can't activate it. Instead, my system connects to "something" as soon as the cable is inserted but the speed I have with this is only a fraction of what it should be. A similar thing sometimes happens with my Mandriva 2010.2 / Windows 7 dual boot after I've been booted into Windows. The work around for this was to disable the eth0 from active connections via the tray icon and then reactivate ppp0. I can't seem to find out how to do this with Mint?

The problem with KNetworkManager is that starting with ubuntu 10.04 i think,DSL connections don't work just search with google for dsl or pppoe problems with KNetworkManager and you will see what i'm talking.And that doesn't apply only for Kubuntu,but for all KDE distro that use KNetworkManager.
Just a little bit of demo:
http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=86951
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=605527b
https://bugs.launchpad.net/knetworkmanager/+bug/339882
I switched to gnome just because my network don't work,and i hate pppoeconf.
Please Boo,consider the idea of using Gnome NetworkManager.

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blazemore
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby blazemore » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:58 am

Maybe this gets posted a lot, but why not release a beta?
You'd get more testers that way, and everyone knows it isn't ready yet.

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kmb42vt
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby kmb42vt » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:46 am

blazemore wrote:Maybe this gets posted a lot, but why not release a beta?
You'd get more testers that way, and everyone knows it isn't ready yet.


Yup, that question get posted a lot just as you suspect but it's always been a single RC then the final release. My (rather experienced) guess is that there's currently not enough resources yet, meaning man power, hardware and hours in the day, to support a beta release schedule. It takes a lot of additional resources to build, test and release beta versions as well as take in and process feedback from testers in the form of forums and bug reports. The server requirements are higher as well and I don't believe that Linux Mint has the type of resources for supporting this at the moment.

That's my take on it anyway. :)
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randomizer
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby randomizer » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:20 am

Most people can't submit useful bug reports either. There's no point doing a beta if it's more efficient to process a small number of good bug reports rather than sifting through hundreds of ones which are unclear.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby kmb42vt » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:16 pm

randomizer wrote:Most people can't submit useful bug reports either. There's no point doing a beta if it's more efficient to process a small number of good bug reports rather than sifting through hundreds of ones which are unclear.


Good point. I completely forgot to mention that. I was in the middle of writing up a good bug report--it tends to affect the mind. :shock: :D
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)

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Boo
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby Boo » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:14 am

News people!!
Good and bad as it turns out, due to all the Ubuntu problems I am swapping the base from Kubuntu to Debian.
What does this mean? A bit more of a wait but it is DEBIAN!
Hopefully this wont take too long as I have the packages built and the ISO build process is very similar.

Cheers
Boo
Image
Now where was i going? Oh yes, crazy!

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby colyn » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:28 am

Boo wrote:News people!!
Good and bad as it turns out, due to all the Ubuntu problems I am swapping the base from Kubuntu to Debian.
What does this mean? A bit more of a wait but it is DEBIAN!
Hopefully this wont take too long as I have the packages built and the ISO build process is very similar.

Cheers
Boo


Sounds like a winner to me.....

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby thenewguy » Sun Jul 10, 2011 9:32 am

Boo,

Please say you're joking. I've been looking forward to the new KDE release for a couple of months now. A switch to Debian for the base would be a deal breaker for me. I've tried LMDE and it's too buggy to consider using for my day-today work. Kubuntu, on the other hand, works really well on my machines and just lacks that Minty touch. Please, if you're serious, reconsider staying with the Ubuntu/Kubuntu base.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby tdockery97 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:11 am

I know from reading the KDE iso testing page on the community site that the decision is already made, but I'm afraid I have to agree with thenewguy. I think for now I'll stick with Kubuntu 11.10 Alpha.
Linux Mint 18.2 KDE

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby kmb42vt » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:33 am

Boo wrote:News people!!
Good and bad as it turns out, due to all the Ubuntu problems I am swapping the base from Kubuntu to Debian.
What does this mean? A bit more of a wait but it is DEBIAN!
Hopefully this wont take too long as I have the packages built and the ISO build process is very similar.

Cheers
Boo


I pretty much expected this and although it's a decision not without some risk I agree with it (like you actually need my approval :D ) and can't blame you a bit. Sure, they'll be certain Kmint users that will be OMG! :shock: over this but that's unavoidable.

Couple of quick questions (probably stupid ones at that): Will the new LMDKDE use the new update system that LMDE does? And will it be based on the new respin that's coming up and not on the old December, 2010 release? Basing on that old release would be a rather large mistake as it's almost impossible to update after initial install unless you really know what you're doing, even using the new update system.
Last edited by kmb42vt on Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby manny » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:34 am

Boo, it may be a wise move. Good luck and hope it will be at least as good as the previous releases or much better.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby exploder » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:39 am

I am interested in the changes to the Debian installer, how the update packs are going to work and if something like Jockey could be ported to Debian. The Kubuntu 11.10 alpha might be fine for the moment but I would expect to see the familiar pattern of breakage as things progress. It makes more sense for us to go strait to Debian rather than use a Kubuntu remix that way we could better control the build and updates to the system rather than just take what we get. The Debian based systems are getting better and better and in my opinion they have a very bright future.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby rec9140 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:41 am

Boo wrote:News people!!
Good and bad as it turns out, due to all the Ubuntu problems I am swapping the base from Kubuntu to Debian.
What does this mean? A bit more of a wait but it is DEBIAN!
Hopefully this wont take too long as I have the packages built and the ISO build process is very similar.


This good news, and very bad news.

I am all for a KDebMint, as a SEPARATE VERSION.

KMint - *buntu
KDebMint - Debian

This is a HUGE REGRESSION in sofware from KDE itself to things which will never ever be as easy as apt-get install xyz, due to the DFSG, NONE of the audio programs support MP3! :evil: Unless of course your repos are going to recompile and provide all the audio programs like sox etc with MP3 support?

So this pretty much seals the fate of the top KDE distro.

Thanks for 3 great years.
Julep....mixing.....KDE Done right, and minty.
http://www.juleplinux.com

Its been a great 3 year run! Thanks for the fish.. but time for new waters....

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby thenewguy » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:45 am

I'm a bit concerned about software selection. As I understand it Ubuntu/Kubuntu software cannot be installed on the Mint Debian edition. So items like Software Centre and PPAs will not function on a Debian base. If that is still the case this cuts off an important piece of functionality for KMint. By contrast what benefits would be gained from a shift to the Debian base?

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby exploder » Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:49 am

thenewguy, there would be no need for ppa repos, it would be a rolling release.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby GhoS » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:04 am

I'm cautiouisly optimistic about this change. I like the idea of the rolling release, but hope that it doesn't affect the functionality I've been used to with Ubuntu based KDE.
I think for the long-term health of Mint as a whole this is a good move. Sure part of the popularity has been being based on Ubuntu, but breaking away gives it a chance to be it's own distro. I'm just glad this version is still being made even with the switch. I don't care for Gnome (although admit Gnome 3 shell seems intereting). I also want to be able to stay with mint.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby thenewguy » Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:08 am

exploder wrote:thenewguy, there would be no need for ppa repos, it would be a rolling release.

That would be fine if:
A) Software released in PPAs was also included in Debian (some are not).
B) Software found in Ubuntu's standard repositories also could be found in Debian's.

Since neither are true I fail to see how a rolling release is at all relevant to my concerns.

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Re: Mint 11 KDE development

Postby rec9140 » Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:46 pm

thenewguy wrote:
exploder wrote:thenewguy, there would be no need for ppa repos, it would be a rolling release.

That would be fine if:
A) Software released in PPAs was also included in Debian (some are not).
B) Software found in Ubuntu's standard repositories also could be found in Debian's.

Since neither are true I fail to see how a rolling release is at all relevant to my concerns.


YOUR SPOT ON!

Debian is a great base, but it brings in many changes, that the distro itself will need to pick up and run with.

Media - Your distro better be ready to RE-COMPILE and MAKE AVAILABLE REPOS with audio software for LAME, sox, DarkIce etc... with MP3 support. Throw in any other media format which tweaks the DFSG rules...

KDE - Regression to 4.6.3! People here are screaming for backports of KDE 4.7.0 and were going to go backwards?

Thanks to being Debian based, a Debian version allows for DEBS to be brought in to use many software packages not available via a Debian repo.... BUT.... there is going to be a LOT MORE NEED for compiling of things from source for LOTS OF SOFTWARE which is as simple as apt-get install xyz or via synaptic. As for install via the software thingy, I don't use it, so I have no clue what, how, or where it gets it pacakges, but I doub't it is a rich.

OEM Drivers - Debian has an issue with installing OEM Drivers, unless this has been resolved (?). Coupled with the X org issue changes, but I think the latest nVidia updates may have corrected this.

Again, I only conisder Debian based distros, and I am 100% for a KDebMint, but as its OWN VERSION, until the various things like software selection etc. are resolved to be Minty... its not there... starting with media generation and playback...

Example, quoting from synaptic: "NOTE: The Debian version of DarkIce is only compiled with Ogg Vorbis
support due to patent reasons and will therefore only work with IceCast2 servers!"

Translation its useless! For 2.5 years I've provided OGG format streams, no one but me uses them, and Android devices can not use them. If Android is not even going to support Ogg then whats the point... throw in all the headaches from getting LAME etc.. on Debian.

I reiterate I am all for a KDebMint, but on ITS OWN, till Mint is ready to provide full repos with the equal of the various selections in Synaptic. I don't think Debian is ready to carry the load and demands of KMint, unless the distro itself is ready to complete the gaps that the DFSG etc. create.
Julep....mixing.....KDE Done right, and minty.
http://www.juleplinux.com

Its been a great 3 year run! Thanks for the fish.. but time for new waters....


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