gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

oldgranola wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:49 pm
Saw the push message to fix the update manager oops, followed the CLI approach. Worked fine thanks Just loving this PPA, particularly the update manager. And especially in THAT , the kernel manager tool. I can even look at non-generic including low latency kernels for my gaming toy. I also really appreciate the more granular handling of removing old kernels. Now I can ditch UKUU on LM.
Thanks much for the feedback, always very appreciated! Good to hear my oops didn't cause you trouble. ;)
Pjotr wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:43 pm
Enabled - Sources is fine, I think. But perhaps Source Code would even be clearer and logically more correct: after all, you're dealing with software sources in general.
If anything, then Source Packages, for that is the technical term. But it would make for an unnecessarily long column title. I've been adding (Sources) to source code repositories all along and nobody ever complained, so I was meaning to stay consistent with that. The repository listing will also still contain the (Sources) suffix.
Drugwash wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:06 pm
gm10 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:00 pm
they can understand whether a PPA is enabled or not.
Yes, when any of the checkboxes is enabled/marked then the PPA is enabled. What if one only wants the sources and not the binaries? Wouldn't the Enabled checkbox mislead them?
Not so much I'd say, because checking the sources box doesn't mean that your system will do anything with it, which it won't unless you specifically instruct it to download a source package from it - something most users wouldn't even know how to do. But checking the "Enabled" column means that the binary packages will appear everywhere in Update Manager, Package Manager, Software Manager, etc.

Anyway, I know I asked for feedback and yet I am pushing back against it, but this discussion is helpful to me and shows why I asked - it's not clear cut. How about a compromise in the form of an explanatory tooltip on each checkbox? Seems best to me.
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by Drugwash »

In this particular situation tooltips seem more like a weakness, a sign that the main title is not explanatory enough. I stick to Binaries and Sources as my personal opinion. Others are welcome to chime in with their own.

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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

Fair point. Or we go full out:

Image

But I'm very wary of how that'd look in some localizations. I'll have to sleep on this. WTB newbie feedback. ;)
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by Drugwash »

Translations should always be as brief as possible in order to accomodate in the original controls' space.
Newbie feedback may take quite a while to come through, if ever. I've already stated a few reasons why, recently.
Pjotr could share his opinion on Dutch localization at least. Theoretically I could acknowledge a Romanian translation would fit nicely.

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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by dorsetUK »

Hi gm10

A newby grumbles ... what the hell are binary and source packages!
Another newby mumbles ... if you don't understand then don't click.
Another newby stumbles ... which table leg is the 'Dictionary of Linux' propping up.

Personally, this newby mumbles - and your Download Manager works a treat - even if it isn't understood down here in the world of the Morlock :)

Cheers, Jon

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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

dorsetUK wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:17 pm
A newby grumbles ... what the hell are binary and source packages!
Cheers, this very much reinforces my original thinking. So would the original idea:
Image
be any better from your perspective? Note that as a newbie you will never need the Sources/Source Packages, so I'm not overly concerned about having you do anything with those, but I don't want you confused by what is happening after you added a PPA, either. :)
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by dorsetUK »

gm10 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:28 pm
... but I don't want you confused by what is happening after you added a PPA, either. :)
Thanks for that gm10, it's appreciated. I think that your suggestion makes more sense to users such as I.

Too much, 'clicking just to see what it does', has left me accepting the defaults, but it's nice if I can convince myself that I have some idea of what they mean - he mumbled.

Jon

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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by smurphos »

Not a newbie, but I personally think Enabled is more descriptive as-well
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

smurphos wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 12:11 am
Not a newbie,
It's good you clarified that, I would not have known otherwise. :lol:

Cheers, mate! ;)
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by oldgranola »

gm10 wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:28 pm
dorsetUK wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 3:17 pm
A newby grumbles ... what the hell are binary and source packages!
Cheers, this very much reinforces my original thinking. So would the original idea:
Image
be any better from your perspective? Note that as a newbie you will never need the Sources/Source Packages, so I'm not overly concerned about having you do anything with those, but I don't want you confused by what is happening after you added a PPA, either. :)
I think this works. Maybe something like [default]....[sources] though might make more clear the first option is to be chosen first?
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by oldgranola »

Minor suggestion. In software manager menu view>maintenance>delete cached repository index ...I wonder if "refresh cached repository index" would be better? I just had to update/refresh the key for the official ubuntu PPA which then prompted to refresh the index but it wasn't clear that closing that section would perform that so I went looking.
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

oldgranola wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:47 pm
Minor suggestion. In software manager menu view>maintenance>delete cached repository index ...I wonder if "refresh cached repository index" would be better? I just had to update/refresh the key for the official ubuntu PPA which then prompted to refresh the index but it wasn't clear that closing that section would perform that so I went looking.
It doesn't refresh it though, it truly deletes it. The refresh is what you do afterwards by clicking on OK when it asks you to update your APT cache, or by clicking the Refresh button in Update Manager. But these are different features. A regular refresh only downloads updated indexes, whereas when you delete them first then they will all have to be downloaded. The feature exists because for some users the already cached files end up being corrupt and need to be removed before new ones can be downloaded.
oldgranola wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:47 pm
I just had to update/refresh the key for the official ubuntu PPA which then prompted to refresh the index but it wasn't clear that closing that section would perform that so I went looking.
I'm not entirely sure what the workflow and the confusion here was. Are we talking about this prompt in Software Sources?

Image

If so, it sounds pretty unambiguous to me but I'm always open to suggestions.
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by oldgranola »

gm10 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:56 pm
oldgranola wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:47 pm
Minor suggestion. In software manager menu view>maintenance>delete cached repository index ...I wonder if "refresh cached repository index" would be better? I just had to update/refresh the key for the official ubuntu PPA which then prompted to refresh the index but it wasn't clear that closing that section would perform that so I went looking.
It doesn't refresh it though, it truly deletes it. The refresh is what you do afterwards by clicking on OK when it asks you to update your APT cache, or by clicking the Refresh button in Update Manager. But these are different features. A regular refresh only downloads updated indexes, whereas when you delete them first then they will all have to be downloaded. The feature exists because for some users the already cached files end up being corrupt and need to be removed before new ones can be downloaded.
oldgranola wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 2:47 pm
I just had to update/refresh the key for the official ubuntu PPA which then prompted to refresh the index but it wasn't clear that closing that section would perform that so I went looking.
I'm not entirely sure what the workflow and the confusion here was. Are we talking about this prompt in Software Sources?

Image

If so, it sounds pretty unambiguous to me but I'm always open to suggestions.
Well, the prompt in edit/software sources/maintenance/add missing and renew expired keys, after proceeding to fix keys. The prompt doesn't say 'how' explicitly to refresh.
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

oldgranola wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:00 pm
Well, the prompt in edit/software sources/maintenance/add missing and renew expired keys, after proceeding to fix keys. The prompt doesn't say 'how' explicitly to refresh.
Oh, ok, so this here?

Image

I guess I could just drop that line entirely, it's basically redundant considering you are being asked to do the same in the banner as well. Would it have been less confusing like that?
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by oldgranola »

gm10 wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:17 pm
oldgranola wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 4:00 pm
Well, the prompt in edit/software sources/maintenance/add missing and renew expired keys, after proceeding to fix keys. The prompt doesn't say 'how' explicitly to refresh.
Oh, ok, so this here?

Image

I guess I could just drop that line entirely, it's basically redundant considering you are being asked to do the same in the banner as well. Would it have been less confusing like that?
Yes, definitely. That line is confusing as the refresh happens when one backs out of the tool without having to do anything else.
Last edited by oldgranola on Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

oldgranola wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 5:04 pm
Yes, definitely.
Excellent, consider it done. :)
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by Drugwash »

I'd say, rather than removing that line why don't you say "When asked to update APT cache please do so" instead?
That'd be more in line with the banner's message.
Just sayin'.

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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

Drugwash wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:05 pm
I'd say, rather than removing that line why don't you say "When asked to update APT cache please do so" instead?
That'd be more in line with the banner's message.
Just sayin'.
Nah, let's keep it simple, that's why that banner exists, after all. It goes without saying that if the tool asks you to update the cache it wants you to do so.

Speaking of updates, I'm delaying most of today's updates until at least Pjotr's translation "updates" have come in for mintupdate and software-sources, but otherwise I'm done with them. Surprisingly long list of changes (and fixes) for mintupdate again, wasn't planning for that last week, thought the focus would be software-sources. One overdue feature that I added is mainline kernel support for automatic upgrades, so you can break your system without even looking - Pjotr is going to love that one. :lol:
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by Pjotr »

gm10 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:06 pm
One overdue feature that I added is mainline kernel support for automatic upgrades, so you can break your system without even looking - Pjotr is going to love that one. :lol:
I sure do. :twisted:
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Re: gm10's Linux Mint Tools PPA

Post by gm10 »

Pjotr wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:58 pm
gm10 wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:06 pm
One overdue feature that I added is mainline kernel support for automatic upgrades, so you can break your system without even looking - Pjotr is going to love that one. :lol:
I sure do. :twisted:
Well, it was originally intentional to exclude it for exactly the reason I jokingly mentioned above, but I feel it has all matured enough to warrant inclusion now. Which reminds me I should add automated snapshots in now as well. More translation work for you. ;)
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