Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

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Moem
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by Moem »

mattlach wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:36 am
I'd still argue that operating systems were better when they were a blank slate with very few or even no applications pre-installed, and each user installing what THEY used, rather than having a pre-selected ecosystem selected for them.

Having the desktop environment and all the settings apps pre-installed certainly makes sense. Maybe even having a browser pre-installed does, but personally I would prefer that this is where we'd draw the line, and after that I could choose what else I want to install, instead of having to hunt and uninstall packages every time.
I'm curious to know why you went with an OS that is explicity described as 'full-featured´. That could make a good subject for a separate topic.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by Cosmo. »

As Moem said. With my words: You are here perhaps on the wrong steamer.
mattlach wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:36 am
That said, I'd still argue that operating systems were better when they were a blank slate with very few or even no applications pre-installed
With this I can handle. If you say, that this is your opinion, than OK. If you throw around with wild claims, which already on the first view have no relation to the facts, than it is not acceptable.

This here is the thread about a new version of Mint, not about a principle discussion, what a distro shall have and what not. (Such discussions do exist in the forum, as I remember,) In so far you are definitely in the wrong thread, perhaps you write about the wrong distro.
Gotcha!
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by Infidelus »

One of the best things about Linux distros compared to Windows is, if you don't like the software that's installed, you can just uninstall it - fully and completely. The same cannot be said with software on a Microsoft OS where it's hidden in about twenty folders and all over the Windows Registry.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by mingle »

I'd have to say, I heartily agree with this - a 'clean' version of LM with no apps installed, only the basic stuff like networking, desktop/UI would be great.

I too spend an age uninstalling pretty much all of the apps after a fresh install. I maintain quite a few installation of LM and pretty much only require firefox, file-manager, text-editor, calculator and of course the terminal. Everything else is removed.

True, I could investigate other distros, but I've been using LM since version 7 and find it to be just right, aside from the unneeded application programs.

Any chance of this every happening?

Cheers,

Mike.
mattlach wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 11:36 am
I'd still argue that operating systems were better when they were a blank slate with very few or even no applications pre-installed, and each user installing what THEY used, rather than having a pre-selected ecosystem selected for them.

Having the desktop environment and all the settings apps pre-installed certainly makes sense. Maybe even having a browser pre-installed does, but personally I would prefer that this is where we'd draw the line, and after that I could choose what else I want to install, instead of having to hunt and uninstall packages every time.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by SMG »

mingle wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:17 pm
Any chance of this every happening?
This is an announcement topic for LM21 Cinnamon.

If you wish to make recommendations for changes you can do that in Suggestions & Feedback which is where discussions have already happened on that very topic.
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A woman typing on a laptop with LM20.3 Cinnamon.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by mattlach »

Moem wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:15 pm
I'm curious to know why you went with an OS that is explicity described as 'full-featured´. That could make a good subject for a separate topic.
Because a "full featured operating system" shouldn't mean "lots of programs installed"

Most of those programs are not part of the operating system at all, they just run on top of it.

An operating system is really just kernel, and basic utility programs, and in modern times a working GUI environment. Anything beyond that goes above and beyond "full featured operating system" into something else, which I don't even know what to call it, but "ecosystem" seems to make sense.

Where the exact border between operating system and programs running on top of the operating system lies today is a little bit grey at times, but certainly an office package is not part of the operating system, nor is an email client, or image editing suite.

A file manager is closer to Operating System side (though traditionally this wasn't the case) and a web browser, while certainly nbot part of an operating system, it has become the norm to include one with it these days.

All I am saying is "full featured operating system" means "operating system with the bells and whistles", not "operating system, and also all these application suites we think are neat and want to include"

I'm not arguing there isn't a place for the latter. Some may even like it, but for those of us who like things our way, and don't want a lot of wasteful programs installed that we never use, it would be nice if a more basic release were an option. I'd much rather add to the system after installing it, than having to sift through and remove from it what I don't want.

As for why do I use Mint? Because I like the Cinnamon desktop environment, and it being set up to work out of the box is nice. I know I can install it on top of other distributions, but it's not quite the same, and it takes a lot of work to get it working smoothly. I've been using Mint as my primary desktop distribution for over a decade now ever since Ubuntu started to use the Unity interface as their default, and I hated it. Back then Mint already had some bloat, but I feel it has been going in the wrong direction since, at least for my preferences.

A simple version with kernel, GNU utilities, window manager and cinnamon desktop environment but nothing else preinstalled would be a nice option to have.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by Cosmo. »

mattlach wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:10 pm
An operating system is really just kernel
Why don't you just download the kernel?
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by Nikolai5 »

mattlach wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:10 pm
Moem wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:15 pm
I'm curious to know why you went with an OS that is explicity described as 'full-featured´. That could make a good subject for a separate topic.
A simple version with kernel, GNU utilities, window manager and cinnamon desktop environment but nothing else preinstalled would be a nice option to have.
Not even Debian would meet your requirements, so you may not want to go with a Debian based system if that is what you want.
The thing is, most people don't mind because not only do we use these pre-installed applications, but them being installed has near no impact on performance.

I would recommend one of the self-proclaimed lightweight distributions such as Arch if you really want what you're asking for. You aren't going to realistically get that with Debian +.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by Lady Fitzgerald »

mattlach wrote:
Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:10 pm
Moem wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:15 pm
I'm curious to know why you went with an OS that is explicity described as 'full-featured´. That could make a good subject for a separate topic.
Because a "full featured operating system" shouldn't mean "lots of programs installed"

Most of those programs are not part of the operating system at all, they just run on top of it.

An operating system is really just kernel, and basic utility programs, and in modern times a working GUI environment. Anything beyond that goes above and beyond "full featured operating system" into something else, which I don't even know what to call it, but "ecosystem" seems to make sense...
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by deck_luck »

Linux Mint is a Linux Distribution. A distribution is an assortment of a Linux-based operating system and user applications.

Linux Mint is a general purpose Linux-based distribution that appeals to many different user types. The Linux Mint Team does a good job of including user applications to create a very popular general purpose Linux-based distribution. Likewise, many other Linux-based distribution focus on a specific user base. For example, the Ubuntu Studio includes a vast number of user applications for digital media creation and or editing. Many other distributions exist focusing on child education, engineering, science, etc.

If you want just the operating system with the Linux kernel and just the gnu core utilities, you might try installing Arch or Linux From Scratch. You might even try ubuntu-minimal. You could even create your own distribution using Linux from Scratch.

You should not expect a general purpose distribution to make wholesale changes just for your personal preference. Find the best distribution for your needs and use it.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by Pjotr »

deck_luck wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:57 pm
You should not expect a general purpose distribution to make wholesale changes just for your personal preference. Find the best distribution for your needs and use it.
Yup, that's the Linux way of doing things.... 8)
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by frd92 »

Thank you very much!
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by tonywhelan »

mingle wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:17 pm
I'd have to say, I heartily agree with this - a 'clean' version of LM with no apps installed, only the basic stuff like networking, desktop/UI would be great.

I too spend an age uninstalling pretty much all of the apps after a fresh install. I maintain quite a few installation of LM and pretty much only require firefox, file-manager, text-editor, calculator and of course the terminal. Everything else is removed.
You could write a simple bash script that uninstalls a list of apps you don't want. Then just run the script on each machine.

Code: Select all

#!/bin/bash
# Sample script purges apps listed in $applist below
# Must be run with sudo
applist="hexchat* transmission*"
for i in $applist; do
   apt-get purge "$i" -qqy
done
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by DPM »

tonywhelan wrote:
Thu Oct 06, 2022 7:47 pm
You could write a simple bash script that uninstalls a list of apps you don't want. Then just run the script on each machine.
Even easier: you use the Mint backup tool (Menu -> Administration->Backup) and save the list of installed packages, copy the backup text file over, then restore on the other machines.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by Proxima »

A new disk for my laptop was good opportunity to go from 19.3 to 21 with a fresh install. Frankly speaking, after a couple years of upgrading from whatever the starting point was, it got a little messy, that's why I stopped at 19.3 until now. Well, the old HDD is perfectly fine still, and will serve as a (non-essential) data disk from now on, but we're in the age of the SSD for a while now, so...

As for the other machine still at 19.3 in my signature, well, I mostly use Windows there (that is, when I actually use that thing) so Mint is more of a backup.
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Re: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon released!

Post by karlchen »

<mod>
Announcement threads are not for help requests. venomspawndx's problem report has been split off into a new support thread as a consequence: Linux Mint 21 “Vanessa” Cinnamon no video at boot time with kernel 5.15.0-53
</Mod>
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