Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

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MtnDewManiac
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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by MtnDewManiac » Tue Mar 15, 2016 2:28 am

M0em wrote:
stormryder wrote:Restricting me to open source drivers to run hardware I paid for is not acceptable.
Okay, so if you won't accept it... what then? :?: :?: :?:
Between your post and the next couple, I laughed so hard that Mountain Dew came out of my nose.

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MDM
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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by Moem » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:00 am

Job = Done. :lol:
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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by BigEasy » Tue Mar 15, 2016 3:22 pm

I will call it "Sarah Mint 18+". :wink:
Windows assumes I'm stupid but Linux demands proof of it

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by stormryder » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:39 pm

killer de bug wrote:He may pay for the software...
I did, when I purchased the GPU. AMD has an obligation to provide me with drivers that enable my GPU to work. Turning that responsibility over to the open source community is inappropriate. How can you be responsible for such an important component of my hardware when you cannot be held liable if it does not work properly? I think this is a sleazy move by AMD and I am not happy that ubuntu went along with it.
Only the more expensive GPUs are planned to be supported at all by AMD and I just didn't spend quite enough to get even half a driver out of them. I see little difference between paying for software or paying extra for hardware to achieve the same performance.
M0em wrote:Okay, so if you won't accept it... what then?
Yes what can I do? Apparently I can't even complain about without being laughed at. Oh well, at least someone is amused, kinda sucks to be the guy with the crappy, unsupported hardware though.
MtnDewManiac wrote:Between your post and the next couple, I laughed so hard that Mountain Dew came out of my nose.
Sorry about that dude, you gonna be OK?

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by Pjotr » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:05 pm

stormryder wrote:Yes what can I do?
As I already said: continue to use 17.3. That's still supported until May, 2019, so that gives you more than three years.

If there's no fglrx driver for newer Mint versions available by then, buy a new machine with an Nvidia or Intel video chipset....
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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by killer de bug » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:40 pm

stormryder wrote: I did, when I purchased the GPU. AMD has an obligation to provide me with drivers that enable my GPU to work.
Read the contract. I'm not convinced by what you say. You bought the hardware. Except if Linux was clearly mentioned on the box, otherwise I don't think they have an obligation to provide a driver for you. And they certainly don't have an obligation to provide an updated version of it. :lol:

Anyway, you can grab it on their website. Therefore I don't understand your complaints. We don't know the status of the next version of LM. As pjotr said, you can still use LM17.3 for 3 years. :roll:
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by viking1au » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:39 am

Somebody should notify Stevie Nicks about this. - It may give her (very good) song of 'Sarah' a new lease on life.
Unlike another previous post, I like the name Sarah. People who do not may get a pleasant surprise with a release of say 18.1. - Time will tell.
The only other thing is that I just downloaded Mate 17.3 (64bit) & was pleased to see that it was said to be paying better attention to Compiz & Wobbly Windows, both of which I have dearly missed since Mate 11.--Now I find this info re Mint 18 & guess I will wait, & live in the hope that it will come as a full bootable distro, rather than having to 'upgrade' from 17 Qiana.
My fears with a mere upgrade are that my files & address book from Thunderbird may all be lost, thereby necessitating a full back-up anyway. -- I have not yet seen any info on this point re upgrades in Linux.-- One day I may find the secret.
I am looking forward to better Compiz & Wobbly features, like Mint 11. (Katya.)......Still my favourite.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by killer de bug » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:04 am

viking1au wrote:Now I find this info re Mint 18 & guess I will wait, & live in the hope that it will come as a full bootable distro,
It will. As all the other LM release were.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by stormryder » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:22 pm

killer de bug wrote:Except if Linux was clearly mentioned on the box, otherwise I don't think they have an obligation to provide a driver for you.
Seriously? I believe this kind of attitude is why we have such poor support from hardware companies. I have no desire to perpetuate this situation, but placing the responsibility for hardware drivers upon linux developers certainly will.
killer de bug wrote:Anyway, you can grab it on their website. Therefore I don't understand your complaints. We don't know the status of the next version of LM. As pjotr said, you can still use LM17.3 for 3 years
The current performance of that driver is pretty dismal. I was hoping to see actually see some improvement. AMDs fglrx won't support Xorg 1.18 which Ubuntu 16.04 will use. The plan is to replace it with a hybrid driver that is actually a regression when compared to fglrx.
https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/p ... post857203
While the new open source driver is looking pretty good it still needs work and doesn't support some features currently supported by fglrx..
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... Way-Xenial
Pjotr wrote:If there's no fglrx driver for newer Mint versions available by then, buy a new machine with an Nvidia or Intel video chipset....
I dislike being being restricted to specific hardware even more than being restricted to specific software. I realize that there is little that mint can do, but it sucks that the only hardware that lend even moderate support to linux is produced by companies that control the market. I can either run software produced by a giant, manipulative, corporation on whatever hardware I choose, or I can run linux on hardware that costs up to 4 times more. A poor choice either way IMHO.

I don't think I need to tell you that linux has the potential to be a vastly superior platform. The lightweight and secure nature provide the perfect environment for intensive gaming and graphical applications. Unfortunately without decent graphical drivers linux can never reach this potential. I don't doubt the developers ability to provide good drivers especially if they have the proper resources to work with. I just don't think it should be their responsibility to provide them. I think we would all benefit if they could dedicate that time to other development.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by killer de bug » Thu Mar 17, 2016 5:55 pm

stormryder wrote: Seriously? I believe this kind of attitude is why we have such poor support from hardware companies.
That's the way it is. If you don't like this, sue them in front of the Congress or the EU commission.
But don't expect anything. They are already providing a driver, I don't see what they would risk... :roll:
stormryder wrote: I was hoping to see actually see some improvement. AMDs fglrx won't support Xorg 1.18 which Ubuntu 16.04 will use. The plan is to replace it with a hybrid driver that is actually a regression when compared to fglrx.
Ubuntu is Ubuntu. Linux Mint is Linux Mint. Nothing has yet been announced for Linux Mint 18 which will be out in... 4 months.
stormryder wrote: While the new open source driver is looking pretty good it still needs work and doesn't support some features currently supported by fglrx..
Don't hesitate to make a donation. It will help them to code a better driver.

stormryder wrote:I can either run software produced by a giant, manipulative, corporation on whatever hardware I choose, or I can run linux on hardware that costs up to 4 times more. A poor choice either way IMHO.
My computer was bought in 2009, it was a middle low range hardware (core 2 duo and Nvidia GT M). It's still doing a really great job and I have no plans to change it. Therefore your statement is wrong. Ohhh... And I run Cinnamon :)
stormryder wrote: I don't doubt the developers ability to provide good drivers especially if they have the proper resources to work with. I just don't think it should be their responsibility to provide them. I think we would all benefit if they could dedicate that time to other development.
Which Dev are we speaking about? If it's the ones responsible for the drivers, make a donation. Help them to do their job...
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by MtnDewManiac » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:51 am

stormryder wrote:
killer de bug wrote:Except if Linux was clearly mentioned on the box, otherwise I don't think they have an obligation to provide a driver for you.
Seriously? I believe this kind of attitude is why we have such poor support from hardware companies. I have no desire to perpetuate this situation, but placing the responsibility for hardware drivers upon linux developers certainly will.
I understand your frustration - I once purchased a "windows modem."

But your attitude (IMO) may not be correct, either. There are all kinds of situations in which a person might want to shake their fist at a manufacturer. I'm sure my friend would have appreciated it if her van had come suitably equipped with hand controls, for example, which would have saved her a few thousand dollars.

If the product (graphics card) was not sold as being one which supported linux, then you have gotten a bonus by it working at all with your chosen OS.

But even if it DID come inside a box that had "Works in linux!" embossed across it in big, bold letters... Just exactly how long do you feel that such a statement should keep them on the hook? One assumes that it should work with linux at the time of sale (if it was a current product at that time) - but which linux, lol? ALL of the various distros/DEs? Do you feel that the manufacturer should support its device in perpetuity?

I wouldn't be surprised, if someone decided to initiate proceedings against AMD in court... If AMD's response was short and worded something like this: There is nothing physically preventing you - and certainly nothing that AMD has done - from continuing to run the configuration which worked with their product on the date that it was manufactured. If YOU choose to modify that configuration, AMD cannot be held responsible.

The fact that we update our systems does not mean that we have to. Furthermore, if AMD provided a driver that worked, you modify (update/upgrade) your OS - and that AMD driver is still available in its original state, but fails to work with your changed setup - how is this AMD's fault instead of the (many and various) developers who have changed everything else?

Lest you get the wrong idea about me, I also wish that there was more hardware support for my favorite OS. But I place a big chunk of the blame on the consumer. Businesses exist to make a profit for their principles - profit that they derive from their customers. It's like when people say, "I'd like to use linux as my sole OS, but I can _____ in Windows." If those people stop buying/supporting/using Microsoft OS completely, things will change. Otherwise... well, there's not much motivation for the companies to develop software/hardware for linux :roll: . If I have a restaurant and serve a breakfast item that the overwhelming majority of my town's residents will purchase, and I could spend additional time/effort/money to produce a different item... but only a (relatively) tiny percentage of people would have any interest at all in buying it - and a fair percentage of them already purchase my current product anyway... Well, I'll do just fine continuing to serve up the same old eggs :lol: .

BtW, I just read this:

Code: Select all

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2956567/components-graphics/amd-is-working-on-a-new-linux-graphics-driver-to-catch-up-with-nvidia.html
and it reads like AMD is doing a good thing. It is, of course, regrettable if someone has a product that AMD considered old enough to not be worth their expense of developing the new driver setup for (some folks, OtOH, might be happy that this decision makes the code smaller?). Then again, there are some parts for my 1982 Nighthawk that I cannot purchase new from Honda, either. Hmm... Come to think of it, I can't seem to find an AMD driver that will work with the current version of Mint for a laptop that I have, and it's much newer than my motorcycle (having been manufactured in 2002). Go figure....

Regards,
MDM
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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by killer de bug » Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:35 pm

MtnDewManiac wrote:and certainly nothing that AMD has done - from continuing to run the configuration which worked with their product on the date that it was manufactured. If YOU choose to modify that configuration, AMD cannot be held responsible.
That's what stormryder is not willing to understand. He is not under any obligation to upgrade to LM18. LM17.3 will still be supported for 3 years.
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by min2max » Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:55 am

So basically Linux Mint is released one month after a Ubuntu LTS is released, and the KDE version is released one more month after the base release of Linux Mint. Is it possible to release Linux Mint (all versions) in the same month as the Ubuntu LTS release? We can't wait and want to get hands on new Linux Mint release ASAP!

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by Moem » Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:37 am

I'm guessing the team needs that time to finish things up and get it right. Personally, I can wait, so kindly speak for yourself... what's another month?
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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by Cosmo. » Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:17 am

min2max wrote:Is it possible to release Linux Mint (all versions) in the same month as the Ubuntu LTS release?
That is impossible. Ubuntu might change some details until their final release; only after the release you can definitely say, how the details are made. Further more the resources of the Mint team are limited; that means, it takes time - except the user want to to get a instable version. Last not least beta testing has to be done (usually this takes 1 month). Also the servers have to get set up for the new version, otherwise the users would get a new version, which can get updated.

This gives: You have to wait - until about the mid of the year. If you can't wait you still have to wait for LM 19 2 more years, for LM 20 another 2 years and so on. Also note, that for the - possibly available - inline upgrade some more time will be needed.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by noxcruor » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:23 am

Basic question - will LM 18 Sarah be a long term support edition? Or is 17.3 going to be it for a while?
-NoxCruor "Nox"
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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by Fred Barclay » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:30 am

Hi noxcrusor. All releases of Mint, beginning with Mint 17 and continuing till ???? will be long-term support releases (LTS) unless Clem changes his mind in the future.
So yes, Mint 18 will be supported for 5 years.
Cheers!
Fred
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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by rc_racer » Mon Apr 11, 2016 6:53 pm

I have to go along with karlchen because the name Sarah reminds me of a beautiful young women who happens to be my God daughter. Shouldn't be hard for me to remember the new codename :)

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by skayell » Tue Apr 12, 2016 1:24 am

Newbie Post, but what better place to start? I have decided Windows 10 was not a replacement for 7.

In regards to Sarah, there is no name everyone will agree on. What's in a name? A Rosa would still smell as sweet... As to male names: even NOAA saw the wisdom of alternating years ago. Many of you were just a gleam in your mother's eye when they caved on that one. And being of the - well, I was going to say fairer sex, but I do have a mirror - female persuasion. I would nominate Srinivas, as he was the best darned Systems Test Manager I ever had the pleasure of working with.

Hello to all,
Skayell (Although I usually don't capitalize the first letter. I couldn't afford capital letters when I first got on the web.)

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Re: Linux Mint 18 codenamed “Sarah”

Post by caf4926 » Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:10 am

I really don't care
If it's as good as always that is all that matters
Linux Mint 19.1 Cinnamon

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