Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

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hellwoodfire
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Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby hellwoodfire » Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:44 pm

Why not a Linux Mint Unified version (cinnamon + mate + kde + xfce altogether and simply choosable at login) ?
Would it be possible ?

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby all41 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 12:04 am

The desktops are not completely homogeneous.
I suggest not mixing them in the same partition--even though others will say they do it all the time.
If you want more than one the best approach is separate partitions/install for each which is entirely practical with today's multi-terabyte hd's
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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby MtnDewManiac » Thu Jan 07, 2016 3:51 am

hellwoodfire wrote:Why not a[b] Linux Mint Unified


Finite space on a DVD? Difficulty of integrating everything together in a manner that actually keeps each DE's components separate and "default" for that particular DE? Limited appeal?

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Cosmo. » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:14 am

Besides the technical aspects: It is likely, that numerous new users would not know what to choose, if the come to the point where they have to select one.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Pjotr » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:23 am

openSUSE does it that way: you can select a number of desktops during installation. Downside is a bigger iso, which might be a problem in countries / regions with slow internet.
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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby 1.618 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:31 am

It would make for a bigger iso but what if the o/s was set up so that it installs a basic DE and then when you log in for the first time, you select from a list of as yet uninstalled desktops which are then downloaded and installed? that way you could keep a small iso and then just install the DE the first time you select it at log in,then it would be there as an option every subsequent time you logged in

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Ark987 » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:37 am

hellwoodfire wrote:Why not a Linux Mint Unified version (cinnamon + mate + kde + xfce altogether and simply choosable at login) ?
Would it be possible ?


Another problem is what would call "Redundancy Hell" each one of those DE are duplicating an effort on delivering the exact same application in different flavor/layout.

A simple example is the collision of the default file manger vs file associations vs default app:

  • XFCE - Thunar
  • Cinnamon - Nemo
  • KDE - Dolphin
  • MATE - Caja

Then the Text Editor World Wrestling Federation: Pluma - Gedit - Kate. Then the Calculator Arena... and who knows what else...

When someone chooses Linux as their main OS, my first advice is to choose only one DE that meet their expectations, otherwise they will end up in the chaos of the twilight zone.
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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Cosmo. » Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:44 am

1.618 wrote:It would make for a bigger iso but what if the o/s was set up so that it installs a basic DE and then when you log in for the first time

The live system logs in automatically. Removing this function would be a regression.

1.618 wrote:that way you could keep a small iso and then just install the DE the first time you select it at log in,then it would be there as an option every subsequent time you logged in

What now, bigger or small iso?
How often do you log off and back in in the live system? Further more after rebooting the selection would be needed every time new.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby MtnDewManiac » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:12 pm

Ark987 wrote:Another problem is what would call "Redundancy Hell" each one of those DE are duplicating an effort on delivering the exact same application in different flavor/layout.


I never even thought of that one, lol. I used to use Ultimate Edition (also based on Ubuntu), certain versions of which contained multiple DEs. It seemed to me to be an "everything PLUS the kitchen sink" distro, anyway, with MANY preinstalled applications - but the versions that included multiple DEs had even more apps, since the "default apps" for each and every DE were generally included - some of which seemed to have the same name (in the menu), which was an annoyance.

I'm truly not sure what the perceived appeal would be (to most people). Sure, it'd allow one to try a different DE - but we can all easily do that now. And I assume that the average user picks a DE and sticks with it. It seems to me to be not at all like when a person - again, an average person - has multiple vehicles and drives the truck when hauling loads of gravel, the two-seat sports car when taking the scenic mountain road to clear one's head, the minivan when going on family trips (or if choosing to contribute to insane traffic jams around schools instead of letting the kids walk or - if distant enough - ride the school bus that they're already paying for anyway), or the 35-year old beater motorcycle after the wife divorces him and takes everything else. Since DEs pretty much all allow one to perform the same tasks - and the user can easily install Qt if using a DE that uses Gtk (or vice versa) if/when said user wishes to install applications which require it - people mostly just pick whichever DE they like best and that's what they use (all the time). At least, that's what the people that I know personally in the real world do.

Basically, development time is a finite thing. I can see asking Clem to expend some (possibly a lot, and in an ongoing fashion instead of a one-shot lump) of that finite resource for something that the majority - or even a significant minority - of the user's of his distro want. But I believe that this particular item does not so qualify. Sorry. (This is, of course, my opinion, lol, so if 10,000+ people reply to this thread asking for it, I will be willing to change my opinion :lol: .)

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Cosmo. » Thu Jan 07, 2016 5:32 pm

We had this topic already 1 year ago.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition ! (familly edition!)

Postby hellwoodfire » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:46 pm

We are a 4 members familly with different favorites Window Managers.
We use the same computer with 4 accounts and each of us switch his own account when he/she need to use the computer.
It would be really great if we could login in our own favorite Window Manager:
-Dad (me) fav is XFCE
-Mom fav is Cinnamon
-Son fav is KDE
-Daughter fav is MATE
Last edited by hellwoodfire on Tue Jan 12, 2016 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition ! (familly edition!)

Postby Pierre » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:30 pm

hellwoodfire wrote:We are a 4 members familly with different favorites Window Managers.
We use the same computer with 4 accounts and each of us switch his own account when we need tu use the computer.
It would be really great if we could login in our own favorite Window Manager:
-Dad (me) fav is XFCE
-Mom fav is Cinnamon
-Son fav is KDE
-Daughter fav is MATE


that would be do-able, but you may only be able to use three DEs out of those four.
eg: mixing Kde & Cinnamon, would not work well, but mixing the other DEs would work.

Cosmo. wrote:We had this topic already 1 year ago.

gee - you've got a good memory ..
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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition ! (familly edition!)

Postby Cosmo. » Wed Jan 13, 2016 6:24 am

Pierre wrote:
Cosmo. wrote:We had this topic already 1 year ago.

gee - you've got a good memory ..

Yep, I am very happy, that this part of mine still works to my satisfaction and I train it wherever I can.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby fungus » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:42 am

I've not read the entire thread, sorry if my suggestion is a duplicate :-)

I would not mind an ISO where there would be a lot of unnescessary components implemented - bloatware is frustrating. If anyone would like to add other DE's besides the default it is easaly done with the package management afterwords. But it would be quite nice if there was an "Unifying web-installer" - a small binary that would be able to put itself onto a bootable USB stick (or whatever media) and when you boot onto the media you would be prompted to select what components to install. This would also make it possible for the user to choose his / her favorite DE (if any) in a list of small screenshots and only what's needed will then be downloaded and installed.
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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Quexos » Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:55 am

Heck, I am on the other side of this fence. I wish they'd get rid of the bits and pieces of the DEs I don't even use. there's bit from Cinnmaon and KDE in my Xfce install!

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Hoser Rob » Thu Jan 14, 2016 1:46 pm

Why don't they do it? SImple. Installing multiple DEs is a bad idea. Noobs don't know the difference but developers do.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby 1.618 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:23 am

Cosmo. wrote:
1.618 wrote:It would make for a bigger iso but what if the o/s was set up so that it installs a basic DE and then when you log in for the first time

The live system logs in automatically. Removing this function would be a regression.

1.618 wrote:that way you could keep a small iso and then just install the DE the first time you select it at log in,then it would be there as an option every subsequent time you logged in

What now, bigger or small iso?
How often do you log off and back in in the live system? Further more after rebooting the selection would be needed every time new.



I think you misunderstood, like usual

The dvd iso would be too big with all the DE included, so when you install your o/s you install a basic desktop, then the next time you log in to your system - not the live system"!!!!!!!!!! at the log in screen you choose from a list of DE's, whichever one you choose is downloaded and installed and the next time you log in you can choose that DE. and every time you boot your pc that DE will be there, along with any others you install - you simply select which DE you want at boot

My suggestion is that the very first time you choose a DE is when it actually gets installed, not from the live disc, then the DE is there every time you boot your pc afterwards - simples :)

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Moem » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:16 am

Then how can you try out a DE in a live session, and see which one you want to install?
And how can you install Mint on a computer that has no internet connection?
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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby Cosmo. » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:07 am

1.618 wrote:I think you misunderstood, like usual

It's a matter of the description, as usual.

1.618 wrote:The dvd iso would be too big with all the DE included, so when you install your o/s you install a basic desktop, then the next time you log in to your system - not the live system"!!!!!!!!!! at the log in screen you choose from a list of DE's, whichever one you choose is downloaded and installed and the next time you log in you can choose that DE. and every time you boot your pc that DE will be there, along with any others you install - you simply select which DE you want at boot

My suggestion is that the very first time you choose a DE is when it actually gets installed, not from the live disc, then the DE is there every time you boot your pc afterwards - simples :)

And the live system comes with which DE?

Result would be, that a user with a small band Internet connection installs the system, comes into the login screen and than has to wait and wait and wait and cannot do anything in this time. If he has any trouble with the network connection he cannot reach a GUI to investigate in the problem. Result: Most users will give up at that point.

And what is the benefit compared with the current solution? The DE has to be downloaded in any case, either inside of the ISO-file or separately. Saved bandwidth: zero. The live system must have any DE to provide the current functionality. So at the end the user downloads 2 DEs (one with the ISO, one for the installed system.

Not to mention that the functionality to install a DE would have to be added to the login screen.

Result: more problems, more download amounts in the sum, less functionality in the live system.

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Re: Linux Mint 18 Unified Edition !

Postby 1.618 » Mon Feb 01, 2016 5:20 am

@Cosmo

My intial reply was meant as a suggestion for keeping the size of the iso to a minimum but still allowing a way of having multiple d/e on one system, the suggestion was for a 'unified' version. Granted not everyone has unlimited bandwith to download a new d/e and you have expanded on why it would not be such a practical idea and with hindisght I can see why it would not be brilliant. :)
Last edited by 1.618 on Sat Feb 06, 2016 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.


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