Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

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DasFox
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by DasFox »

mick55 wrote:
DasFox wrote:Remember Linux is about CHOICES & FREEDOM
Yes, please remember that.

Kendall has exercised his freedom and made his choice.

We should respect that.
Sorry wrong Freedom and Choice.

I was talking about freedom and choice for the end-user, not the developers freedom and choice.

We should just all learn to respect everyone, with no special exceptions. In open-source everyone has a say and when we stop having our say, then it's not so open anymore...

P.S. Sorry made a double post without realizing it...
Kendall
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by Kendall »

DasFox wrote:Kendall, I never said the install was the end all, it's only the beginning too... :)
A couple of lessons on basic human interaction you would do well to learn:

1. When you agressively target something using a negative connotation it WILL be taken as an insult. It doesn't matter how much you try and explain it away or how many times you change the subject. It will still be taken as an insult.

2. When you imply something without offering immediate clarification it WILL be taken as what you meant. It doesn't matter how much you try and explain it away or how many times you change the subject. It will still be taken as what you meant.

Just so I'm clear, I'm not taking a stab at you or anything, but it would serve you well to remember both of these points, especially dealing with forums (where clarification is always hard to come by), and even more so when you're dealing with people who volunteer abnormally large amounts of their time and effort to give you a free product.

Yes, speak your mind and make your point, but do so as clearly and pragmatically as possible so that people will look beyond implications and implied insults. One of the beauties of open source is that you have the power to create something. If everybody thinks your idea is crazy, then you still have the freedom to create and implement that idea on your own terms. It's within your power to show to the world how good of an idea it is that you have.
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DasFox
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by DasFox »

Kendall wrote:
DasFox wrote:Kendall, I never said the install was the end all, it's only the beginning too... :)
A couple of lessons on basic human interaction you would do well to learn:

1. When you agressively target something using a negative connotation it WILL be taken as an insult. It doesn't matter how much you try and explain it away or how many times you change the subject. It will still be taken as an insult.

2. When you imply something without offering immediate clarification it WILL be taken as what you meant. It doesn't matter how much you try and explain it away or how many times you change the subject. It will still be taken as what you meant.

Just so I'm clear, I'm not taking a stab at you or anything, but it would serve you well to remember both of these points, especially dealing with forums (where clarification is always hard to come by), and even more so when you're dealing with people who volunteer abnormally large amounts of their time and effort to give you a free product.

Yes, speak your mind and make your point, but do so as clearly and pragmatically as possible so that people will look beyond implications and implied insults. One of the beauties of open source is that you have the power to create something. If everybody thinks your idea is crazy, then you still have the freedom to create and implement that idea on your own terms. It's within your power to show to the world how good of an idea it is that you have.

I don't insult people, I just tell things like they are and if people are insulted then they need to deal with their inner demons causing their problems.

Let me tell you something that you will do well in life to understand taken from a great man I know, a man that was a professional airline pilot for 20 years. He made me realize what separates the little people from the big, meaning, not those as more significant, one over another, because we are all special in our own ways, but what separates those from who can achieve and those that don't, haven't got it in them. This is because little people let the little things in life bother them and carry their baggage around. Then this man told me this, when I get into a plane and fly it with 200 people with their life in my hands, I better know how to shake the little things off and wipe my feet before I get into that cockpit to fly because if my head isn't on right I can get them all killed.

By saying what you are saying and then numerically listing them you are making it look like you are taking things personal and real men don't, real men can get in each other's faces and have it out, and then in the end shake and hug and be buddies. :)

Did you watch the American Presidential candidates last year go at each other and yet in the end they shook hands, had respect and friendship for each other, they didn't take it serious or get insulted, they took it like adults that just listened without preconceived notions like you're throwing back at me.

By doing what you did, you're just patronizing me and making assumptions over the post, why? Because like I said you are looking at things in a negative perspective, which is common in most people, most people tend to see the negative side to everything.

To be insulted is to be childish, an adult with a lack of character.

SO are we adults here or children? But then in this day and age I see adults that act like children... ;)

So let's all lighten up, wow I said something was bloated, WOW harsh words, LOL...

CHILL MY MAN, no one is insulting anything, if anything you are insulting me and belittling my intelligence, trying to give me a lesson in life...

So let's all chill and be adults because I never once cast stones and words at anyone, in this post, you're looking TO DEEP into it, you're being to deep here and there's nothing deep to any of this, LOL...

LAUGH FOR GOSH SAKES HA HA! :)

PEACE :)
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MALsPa
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by MALsPa »

I'm surprised there's anything left to say, after this:
Kendall wrote: As has been mentioned, nobody else has complained about "bloat" in Mint LXDE. In fact it runs particularly well on a lot of old machines where the Gnome and KDE versions lag. Nobody else seems to take issue with uninstalling what they don't use or don't like and installing what suits them better. I tend to be pragmatic in my decision making and I don't favor the "vocal minority" over the "silent majority" so nothing in this thread is going to weigh heavily on the decisions I make for Mint 9. I will make it faster and smaller where I can, but I will not veer away from the Mint philosophy just to satisfy your wants. If this doesn't suit you, then you're more than welcome to try (and like) any other distro and I will not think less of you for it.
[...]
The point here is that we all have a lot of options in the Linux world. We have options for what we use and, for those of us who build distros, we have options for what we build. I don't criticize people for using the apps they want, and I don't criticize developers for building the distros that they build. Please stop questioning my judgement on this. Either use it and make it what you want it to be, use something else, or go build something that you see as ideal. If you do build something let me know, I'd love to try it.
Kendall
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by Kendall »

DasFox,

My last post was just to see how exactly you would respond to "constructive criticism" in a vein similar to your initial post in this thread. I think no more needs to be said on the subject.

Tell you what, I'm going to make you an offer. It's obvious that you have ideas and it's obvious that you would like to see them implemented in one way or another, so here's the deal: I will teach you how to build and maintain Debian packages and how to assemble iso files from a chrooted environment. I'm willing to do this if you're willing to learn it and give something back to the Linux community other than "constructive criticism". You'll need to become reasonably proficient at writing Shell/Bash scripts, and you'll need to have a general understanding of how the syntax in Python works. Fortunately Bash and Python are two of the easiest languages out there.

What do you say?
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FedoraRefugee
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by FedoraRefugee »

Kendall wrote:DasFox,

My last post was just to see how exactly you would respond to "constructive criticism" in a vein similar to your initial post in this thread. I think no more needs to be said on the subject.

Tell you what, I'm going to make you an offer. It's obvious that you have ideas and it's obvious that you would like to see them implemented in one way or another, so here's the deal: I will teach you how to build and maintain Debian packages and how to assemble iso files from a chrooted environment. I'm willing to do this if you're willing to learn it and give something back to the Linux community other than "constructive criticism". You'll need to become reasonably proficient at writing Shell/Bash scripts, and you'll need to have a general understanding of how the syntax in Python works. Fortunately Bash and Python are two of the easiest languages out there.

What do you say?
Sounds like an interesting online/forum tutorial series! I would sure be interested to read any tips you may have. :D

edit: BTW, congrats on Peppermint! Have not tried it yet but I am looking forward to it. Matter of fact, I will DL it now, now that I am thinking about it.
deadguy
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by deadguy »

make that @Kendall +2

IMO Kendall does a great job with the CE's he maintains!!

cheers to him :D


Deadguy
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by dudester2010 »

wow! Its like watching a soap opera on the tube. The back and forth, worthy of the British parliament. All I know, as a user of both linux mint 9 LXDE and (as of yesterday) lubuntu, is that they both run very well on my C610 laptop w/384MB ram. The only distro that comes close to performing as well is Puppy Linux, which I ditched after several repeated problems due to xorg.config. Too unstable. now your O.S.'s are performing well, lubnuntu is in fact VERY fast. So i thank you very much, you will never hear an ungrateful sound uttered from my blow hole. I DO think, however, that the original authors intention was constructive, not meant to be wholly negative. And I should mention that while I understand his intention, I disagree with the "bloat" comment due to the good performance on my ancient laptop.(Dell Latitude C610, 256mb, cdrw, 6 gig hd, 14" 1024X768 screen)
Last edited by dudester2010 on Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by deleted »

dudester2010 wrote:wow! Its like watching a soap opera on the tube.
All this bloating and soap operas... I need a midol. ;) http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=midol&gwp=13
-H
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by magian »

What a waste of forum space this thread is. DasFox is simply a flamebaiter out for some perverted form of entertainment.

@Kendall, keep up the great work. You have make a terrific distro that I use daily

Folks, remember the age-old Internet adage: Please don't feed the trolls. :twisted:
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by Kendall »

magian wrote:What a waste of forum space this thread is. DasFox is simply a flamebaiter out for some perverted form of entertainment.
I don't consider it to be a waste of forum space. In truth I think it reveals a lot of what goes into the decision making when building a distro. It's not easy, and every choice made is something that is potentially controversial or deterring to new users.

I also don't consider DasFox to be a flamebaiter. He most certainly has strong opinions but unfortunately for him those opinions are not reflected in the way distros are assembled around here. Based on his last forum visit (as of now, it was 6 minutes after his last post in this thread) he seems to have exercised his freedom and moved on to other things.

Thanks for your support.
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by Andrew33 »

Kendall makes a great and conserdid point....these forums are not a waste of space or time, it is the one place the others can come to and get valuable information or to learn something new about theirs or another distro of Linux.....True, everyone has a different opinion about something, but that's what makes Linux Communities so cool...it's diversity. The Devs, Moderators, Users, all have something to contribute in their own way....The Devs are the ones' who make the different and new distros, possible. True....not everyone wants all the stuff or choices installed in their distro, they want the choice of being able to add those things.....others want those choices of having it all in there...that's their choice. Me.....I'm one of those who's open to learning new things, seeing what works and what doesn't, because each distro will respond differently to different machines (desktops & laptops). If DasFox wants to have everything in his distro, then that's his choice, and he's free to express his thoughts here or anywhere (from the American point of view of free speech, which is the First Amendment of our Constitution).

Each distro has its own make-up, my personal opinion on LXDE...there's not too much bloat, each distro has its own certain package make-up....if you don't like one, try another...I know you said this earlier Kendall, just making a point that everyone has a choice as to what they want to use...that's all....to the Devs who make these distros possible...I salute you for all your hard work and time devoted to making all this happen....cheers :)


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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by SxFlare »

It would've been interesting to see that tutorial, lol
Learning bash and python is all good, although getting practiced into it and experience is another matter :P
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by Kendall »

SxFlare wrote:It would've been interesting to see that tutorial, lol
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/55 I'm going to try to have the next part up in the next few days.
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by dudester2010 »

magian wrote: @Kendall, keep up the great work. You have make a terrific distro that I use daily

Enough said, i can't agree enough. Amen.
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by SxFlare »

Kendall wrote:
SxFlare wrote:It would've been interesting to see that tutorial, lol
http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/55 I'm going to try to have the next part up in the next few days.
oh nice, I need to create a community login then... I get MySQL errors due to me not having a login. (and then report this bug)
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by robsmint »

Kendall wrote:http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/55 I'm going to try to have the next part up in the next few days.
Great work Kendall. I am hoping to be able to keep up.
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Re: Way To Much Bloat In LXDE CE

Post by Dave68 »

Thanks Kendall.

In the Community, I'm listed as an Isadora Main User. Maybe I should change that to Isadora LXDE. I'm actually running the LXDE Version on more machines.

Regardless, I think you've done a great job with Isadora LXDE RC, and I don't notice any of the "Bloat" that the OP talks about. It's pretty peppy on my sons 9 Year Old Dell with 40GB Hard Drive, 512MB RAM and Pent4. It didn't run very well with the Isadora Main or Ubuntu, but after switching it over to Isadora LXDE RC......Big Difference!!

Thanks Again,
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