Browsing the Windows network on Windows XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

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Mark W
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Browsing the Windows network on Windows XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

Honest, this really IS a question about networking!

Having not been a major fan of Windows, probably since the days that plug and play peripheral cards came in, and the Registry, I've kind of felt there wasn't much of a viable alternative.
Finally, having hung on to Doze XP for a long time after it is considered defunct by most of the rest of the computing world - and my ancient machine getting pretty erratic (possible hard drive senility), I got hold of an old (but WAY newer) machine they were chucking out at work; and I've put Linux Mint 20(now 20.1 I think) MATE 64 bit version on it.

I want to like it, I really do, and have already donated some cash, but as someone coming from a predominantly graphical interface based operating system, where (and I do do this occasionally) typing text into the command prompt window is usually a last resort; I don't get this duality of trying to get Linux to be more popular with people like myself who use a computer, but don't LIVE computers, but then anyone who questions the ubiquitous use of manually entered text commands being torn apart by loads of Linux fans, basically being told 'if you don't like using the command line, then you don't like Linux, bugger off'.
Plus, I was really hoping to move away from everything needing constantly updating all the time, by moving to Linux, which doesn't seem to be the case.

Anyway........ Got a bit carried away there.



Now. As mentioned, I have a OLD Windows XP (Service Pack 3) machine, and I want to network to, and browse (and copy) the files, and possibly drives it has Shared on it.

I have spent weeks looking at all sorts of information, forums, websites and all sorts, about doing this.

Putting together all the stuff I can find about fertling about with the settings in the Samba configuration file (again a prime candidate for a graphical interface, above creating pretty desktop backgrounds for instance), the best I can get to happen, finally, is typing
smb://(ip address of XP machine OR XP machine name)
into the address bar in the caja file browser, and it will show the Shares on the XP machine.
I cannot just browse what this machine calls the Windows network for other machines and shares, and see the XP machine.

However. Trying other types of Linux, Pinguy OS, and Bionic Pup(?) OS, without any faffing whatsoever, as long as the machines are both on the same subnet, you can go to the file browser, Network, and explore the network, and see the XP machine straight away, then it's Shares, and copy stuff over - albeit having to keep on putting in a password, but I imagine THAT could be a configuration tweak that worked....
The only difference, that's obvious at least, that I can see, is that both of these OSes have earlier versions of Samba installed.
2:4.7.6+dfsg~ubuntu-0ubuntu2.21

So.
Maybe I can get all this to work by installing an earlier version of Samba on this machine.
I can't even figure out how to do THAT! Despite trying all sorts of command line stuff to uninstall the version of Samba that IS on this machine
(2:4.11.6+dfsg-0ubuntu1.6), and then install an earlier version, I keep being told there is already a newer version installed already.

This, this is where I expect, if anyone has managed to get this far, I will be given all sorts of suggestions involving loads of command line stuff, which I will certainly give a go, but rather goes back to my point of appealing to someone (and I assure you I wouldn't be on my own here) who prefers the simplicity of a graphical interface that does all the nitty gritty in the background.....

Any help appreciated, like I say, I do want to get away from Windows, especially the dreaded Doze 10, which seems to be the thing you are more or less forced to use these days, even if only because the internet is almost to the point of not working without it.

Ta muchly.
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freshminted
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by freshminted »

tl;dr...

For XP you will have to change client max protocol to NT1 in /etc/samba/smb.conf and restart.
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by altair4 »

I do not understand your post:
Putting together all the stuff I can find about fertling about with the settings in the Samba configuration file (..., the best I can get to happen, finally, is typing
smb://(ip address of XP machine OR XP machine name)
into the address bar in the caja file browser, and it will show the Shares on the XP machine.
So once you do that does that mean you can access the WinXP machine and its shares?

Is your question all about SMB host discovery ( browsing )?

BTW: If you set client max protocol = NT1 in your Mint20 smb.conf you will create a paradox that may interfere with the space time continuum. By default the client smb protocols in Samba 4.11 go from a min of SMB2.02 to a max of SMB3.11. If you set the max to NT1 ( which is samba-speak for SMB1 ) the max will be less than the min. Up becomes down. Left becomes right. THe sun will rise in the West .....

Anyhoo, a better option would be client min protocol = NT1 since that is the only one WinXP understands.
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

freshminted - yep. This is one of the MANY things I tried, and on it's own, didn't do a great deal, as I recall.
It was only after adding ALL sorts of suggested things that I could eventually get to connect to the Doze XP machine, and only if I knew the IP or the name of the thing. No browsing was happening. Kept getting an error saying something about not being able to retrieve share list......
When I get round to firing up the Linux box, I can cut and paste what I have in the smb.conf file somewhere in this thread.
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

altair4 - yes, well, I'M not understanding a whole lot of things that are going on! :D

I suspect, not having to delve to deeply into this sort of thing, ever, before, I'm gettin' me definitions and descriptions of things a bit wrong here.
Once I've done ALL sorts of stuff to the smb.conf file (which I will try and post here soon...), I can get to connect to the Doze XP machine and Shares, but only if I specify the IP or the computer's name....
You might well be correct in that it is more about SMB host discovery, and it's just I didn't have a clue what that was - I think I mentioned not being able to browse and see the Doze XP machine(?).
I don't know about interfering with the space/time continuum (which may actually be simpler), but I fear I may have irreparably damaged my braincell with this.

I'm intrigued also, with the 'client min protocol = NT1' bit, which I think was one of the several tweaks put in the .conf file; just looking at it logically (or literally?), it looks like this is saying to samba that the XP machine won't understand anything above SMB1, but you've also said that this version of samba won't go below SMB2.02 - so samba is being told the XP machine can only understand something which is below it's minimum capability?
Is this likely to be messing with dark matter, or creating some kind of singularity or summat?

Is the answer for me to install an earlier version of samba, like I have been trying to do, with zero success?
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by altair4 »

Once I've done ALL sorts of stuff to the smb.conf file (which I will try and post here soon...), I can get to connect to the Doze XP machine and Shares, but only if I specify the IP or the computer's name....
So the samba client is working. This is all bout host discovery.

It has been a while since I looked at this since NetBIOS is no longer used but you might want to go through this old Tutorial: HowTo: Samba Browsing Problems Checklist
I'm intrigued also, with the 'client min protocol = NT1' bit, which I think was one of the several tweaks put in the .conf file;
You must have or the above would not be working.
...it looks like this is saying to samba that the XP machine won't understand anything above SMB1, but you've also said that this version of samba won't go below SMB2.02 - so samba is being told the XP machine can only understand something which is below it's minimum capability?
That is correct. Windows XP itself cannot understand anything above SMB1 ( NT1 ). By default recent samba versions cannot understand SMB1. Setting the client min to NT1 forces the client to communicate with Windows XP using SMB1.
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Pierre »

it's not exactly clear, as to why you need to Network into that older win-xp machine.
:?

why isn't easier to use one of those Linux System - Bionic Pup(?) OS - to recover those files,
onto an ext drive, of some sort :?:

that's just what I've done, in the past, on various win-xp based PCs,
& that needed some files to be retrieved.
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by chiefjim »

Pierre wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:33 am it's not exactly clear, as to why you need to Network into that older win-xp machine.
:?

why isn't easier to use one of those Linux System - Bionic Pup(?) OS - to recover those files,
onto an ext drive, of some sort :?:

that's just what I've done, in the past, on various win-xp based PCs,
& that needed some files to be retrieved.
I was having thoughts along that same line of thinking. My tool of choice being a USB docking station.

Remove the XP drive and insert into the docking station. That XP drive becomes just another mountable drive on your system.

Or using a spare hdd in the docking station connected to the XP box. Boot with a live disc / flashbrive. Browse the contents and copy over what you wish to preserve.

Either of these eliminates the possibility that some other issue within the XP box is hindering your network attempts.
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Mark W
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

Pierre and chiefjim.
The REASON I want to be able to browse the Windows XP Shares and whatnot, is because I want to.
I know I can do all that stuff like whip out the hard drive, put files on USB sticks and all that, and even use a version of Linux that has an older version of Samba in it. BUT, I don't like these damn inanimate objects getting the better of me, so I'm trying my damndest to either figure out some settings that will work, or put in a version of samba that does the job......
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

altair4
I'm gonna take your word for it, the samba client is working, and it's a host discovery problem...?
I'd already found the Samba browsing problems checklist, and I don't think it resolved anything much.
I think also, it wasn't immediately obvious to me what was being referred to when talking about host and client. I'm gonna guess the host is the machine providing the file/folder, and the client is the one receiving it?

Ah, so what you're saying, is that the samba client (in this case the linux machine receiving the files?) is not actually incapable of doing SMB1, it just by default tries to use something higher, and upwards; it will lower the bar, so to speak, if you tell it to. I thought you were saying that it just didn't do SMB1 full stop.

Would I need to try and found somewhere more suitable in this forum, to find out how to force an install of an earlier version of samba, which appears at least, to work without any messing about?
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by altair4 »

altair4
I'm gonna take your word for it, the samba client is working, and it's a host discovery problem...?
You don't have to take my word for it. You stated it as a fact:
Once I've done ALL sorts of stuff to the smb.conf file (which I will try and post here soon...), I can get to connect to the Doze XP machine and Shares, but only if I specify the IP or the computer's name....
Reverting to an earlier or newer version of samba isn't done at the distro level - at least not by the distro maker.

You would have to build it yourself from source: https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Build_ ... rom_Source

I've been using samba since the last century. I built it from source once back when I was young, foolish, and much better looking. It will never do it again. Instead if it were really important I would find a distro that has a newer or older version of samba and use that distro instead.
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

altair4,
I was more implying I would take your word for it, as you know way more than I, in the definitions of the various things and processes especially. Best I could do is try and say what was and was not happening, however inaccurate my names for things. :)

I managed to find, possibly from the samba site itself, an earlier version of the samba package(? again with perhaps having the wrong definitions), as a .deb file - which I THINK, should work with APT or the software manager or package manager....... or something, without any of this mind melting sounding building from source.
BUT........ despite following all the advice I can about uninstalling samba using APT, when I try to run the .deb file (and it seems to understand and at least TRY to install), I am always told it won't have any of it, as there's a newer version already installed.
Or am I getting my packages and software...thingies muddled up too? This really is a STEEP learning curve from probably 25 years of Windows! :D

Oh, and here's the Globule section from me smb.conf - maybe you can spot any deliberate mistakes....

[global]

## Browsing/Identification ###

# Change this to the workgroup/NT-domain name your Samba server will part of
workgroup = WORKGROUP
client min protocol = NT1
server min protocol = NT1

lanman auth = yes
ntlm auth = yes
client lanman auth = yes
# client ntlmv2 auth = no
name resolve order = bcast host lmhosts wins

security = user
client use spnego = no



# server string is the equivalent of the NT Description field
server string = %h server (Samba, Ubuntu)

# This will prevent nmbd to search for NetBIOS names through DNS.
dns proxy = no
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by altair4 »

I'm going to reference these two Howto's to check your [global] section:
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=322404
viewtopic.php?f=42&t=88146&start=0

Yep. Looks like you did all the things you needed to do which is why you can access the WinXP machine from your Mint box.
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

Alrighty then Altair 4,

Finally got round to firing up the Linux box again, and read your links about Network Browsing.
Everything seems to be in order according to what I've read - apart from Port 138 seems to be missing..... Could this be the culprit for not being able to browse the network????
This is what I got when I used that nmap command

barnaby@Unwindoze-Opti:~$ sudo nmap -sS -sU -T4 192.168.1.100
Starting Nmap 7.80 ( https://nmap.org ) at 2021-03-08 19:07 GMT
Nmap scan report for lightwei-wtolhi.home (192.168.1.100)
Host is up (0.00038s latency).
Not shown: 999 open|filtered ports, 997 filtered ports
PORT STATE SERVICE
139/tcp open netbios-ssn
445/tcp open microsoft-ds
2869/tcp open icslap
137/udp open netbios-ns
MAC Address: 00:01:6C:2F:8C:D8 (Foxconn)

Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 8.92 seconds

I'm going to hope this means more to you than I. :D
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

Does anyone have anything enlightening to impart to me regarding this missing Port 138, and whether it might have any bearing on the browsing of the network falling upon it's bum?
It's kind of a basic operation that I would have thought most people would expect an operating system to do. I know I'm wanting to talk to quite an old OS here, but it worked quite happily for me for ages, and I've never seen the point of updating and having the latest thing, just for the sake of having the latest thing - if what you have works okay for you.
Until I can get this working, and while it isn't, the whole Linux Mint shebang is just dismantled and stored in the back room - only being brought out when I get the chance, to try and get this problem fixed. I wouldn't mind being able to use this as my main poota, and retire the VERY old Windows XP machine.
Cheers, me dears. :)
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by RowlandP »

'138' is the UDP netbios port and is required to use SMBv1.
SMBv1 is the only protocol that XP uses, so if you want two way file transfer and network browsing, you are going to have to use it everywhere. There is a problem with that, Samba and Microsoft are trying to turn it off, though neither has removed it yet. To get it working again, you just need to add these lines two lines to your smb.conf:

client min protocol = NT1
server min protocol = NT1

open these ports in the firewall:

135 tcp
137 udp
138 udp
139 tcp
445 tcp

Restart the smbd and nmbd daemons and everything should work as before.
If network browsing doesn't work, then is down to whatever tool you are using, it is nothing to do with Samba.
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

Ta RowlandP.

I already have the Client and Server bits in, as I recall, but the 138 port seems like it might be the sticking point.
Although....... it still refuses to work with the firewall turned off altogether. I'll give it a whirl nevertheless.

Ah. Just had a thought. Could it be something in the broadband modem/router box? I've a feeling that has some kind of firewall built in - but would that only block stuff going out to the internoodle, rather than between computers on the local network?

Gawd, this is WAY more complicated than I was naively hoping it would be. :D
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by altair4 »

"Discovery" by NetBIOS name can be tricky. It's a good thing you can still access the WinXP SMB share when you need to.
Mark W wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 6:26 am Once I've done ALL sorts of stuff to the smb.conf file (which I will try and post here soon...), I can get to connect to the Doze XP machine and Shares, but only if I specify the IP or the computer's name....
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Re: Browsing the Windows network on OLD Doze XP machine to retrieve files and folder refuses to work, whatever I try,

Post by Mark W »

Right then, finally getting back to digging out all the linux poota bits and firing it up again, I seem to have got the network browsing working.....after a fashion.

The samba configuration file now looks like this (don't think I've made any significant changes to it for a while to be honest), and I suspect it's the NT1 stuff that's making it work, though bizarrely it didn't seem to before:

[global]

## Browsing/Identification ###

# Change this to the workgroup/NT-domain name your Samba server will part of
workgroup = LANTASTIC
client min protocol = NT1
server max protocol = NT1

lanman auth = yes
ntlm auth = yes
client lanman auth = yes
# client ntlmv2 auth = no
name resolve order = bcast host lmhosts wins

security = user
client use spnego = no

The BROWSING of the network now seems to work, but only when the firewall on the Linux machine is switched off. There's an option to add a set of Port rules for Samba, to allow that stuff through, which I tried, but it doesn't appear to make any difference.

Turning the firewall on the Windows XP machine off or on, seemed to make no difference - only the firewall on the Linux machine.
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