Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

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george_angel
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Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby george_angel » Sat Jul 12, 2014 3:32 am

Hi guys and congrats on the fantastic work towards Mint releases.

Being a former advanced Windows user I would like to share my thoughts on future development of the project.
Since my initial interest for Linux I've been furiously distrohopping for the last 3 years, first dual-booting with Windows
and lately settling on Linux Mint 17 Mate as my only OS (using a VM Windows 7 for work whenever needed).
Mint is fantastic and stable, taking all the best from Ubuntu and adding superb usability.
One think i dont agree with is the KDE and XFCE editions, I just dont see the point. There are plenty of distros
out there featuring these DE's, the different flavours of Ubuntu being only a few.
I believe that most Mint users are coming here for the Mate/Cinnamon editions. A small team like Mint devs
should focus on these two, abandoning the KDE/XFCE editions and throwing all the resources there.
Especially now with the LTS strategy, it would benefit development and innovation to push these DE's forward.
Having only those DE's offered and evolved it would make Mint more focused and effective in pushing new technology
to the desktop.

Some people might not agree and dont get me wrong, i like XFCE, but since someone can easily tweak Xubuntu for exable, what is the point for the Mint edition?

Again, thanks for the great work everyone.

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xenopeek
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby xenopeek » Sat Jul 12, 2014 5:47 am

Don't mean to be harsh but what part of this is a "new idea"? This is just your personal opinion about the value of various desktop environments for Linux Mint. Hence moved this to chat.

There are many people preferring Linux Mint KDE and Xfce over Kubuntu or Xubuntu. They make up a large part of the Linux Mint user base.

When it's called for, the Linux Mint developers are capable of making though decisions on their workload. If you go back through the blog you'll see several such though decisions: Fluxbox and LXDE editions were dropped from the Main Edition, Xfce was dropped from LMDE and it was decided to not add KDE to LMDE, Mint4Win was dropped, and the next 3 releases of Linux Mint Main Edition will use the same base as Linux Mint 17--the current Ubuntu long-term support release--instead of using Ubuntu development releases as was done in the past. All this and more, you can find on the blog.
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Incurian
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby Incurian » Sat Jul 12, 2014 12:48 pm

For what it's worth, I'm brand new to Linux, and after some research and a little testing, the only DEs I use are KDE and XFCE (for the netbook). I don't care for Mate or Cinnamon, but I'm open to checking out Cinnamon again in the future.

Also, my decision to go with LM was not at all influenced by their choice of DEs (in-house or otherwise). I don't think that's a good way to pick a distro.
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colyn
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby colyn » Sat Jul 12, 2014 8:49 pm

Why do you think dropping KDE and XFCE is a good idea??

Maybe you're not aware of the number of Mint users who use these versions.

Does being a former advanced Windows user qualify you to make these decissions????

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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby nobodynoze » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:32 pm

I would not blame them one bit if they dropped KDE. KDE is bloated trash. I just had a distro I was using suddenly not boot up and the DE is KDE on that one. I am using LMDE w/ Cinnamon and Ubuntu with Gnome on separate partitions, respectively, but they're booting normally. I have had countless problems with any distro that was using KDE. Every new release of KDE gets worse.

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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby macvaliant60 » Sat Jul 12, 2014 10:43 pm

I'm enjoying trialing Mint 17 KDE and it may soon be replacing LM16 Mate when I have to change because of support being dropped.
I've tried all the various flavours in 16 and 17 and for various reasons including unintentionally and in my opinion fwiw too easily breaking Cinnamon more than once I eventually settled on Mate 16 for the past few months. I eventually got Compiz and Emerald setup in Mate and use the Cube to rotate desktops etc. But Compiz is no longer developed and can be at time glitchy

With Mint KDE I have KWin preinstalled and similar 3D desktop effects are there and working within ticking a few check boxes. I also like the hot corners. For me as a beginner KDE DE is a far more mature, complete and comprehensive experience out of the box. I also play with Manjaro KDE and found enabling the DE effects (which I want) equally easy to setup.

I'm grateful that I have been given a multitude of choices and that my opinion fwiw is no more or less important than anyone elses. As in the saying "Opinions are like a-holes and everyone has one". If I may presume to offer yet another opinion based on very little I would hazzard a guess and say that not merely "some" but very 'many' would not agree with you advocating that KDE and XFCE be dropped. :roll:

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Incentive I.C
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby Incentive I.C » Sat Jul 12, 2014 11:51 pm

colyn wrote:Why do you think dropping KDE and XFCE is a good idea??

Maybe you're not aware of the number of Mint users who use these versions.

Does being a former advanced Windows user qualify you to make these decissions????


He already told you why he thinks its a good idea and he is just sharing his thoughts. I don't mean to sound harsh but chill out.

But dropping I don't see the point. Don't they just take it from the Ubuntu repos and tweak it? I don't think it takes alot of time/resources and alot of people like KDE and XFCE.
The best way to learn from it is break it OS's (is there a plural for OS?) included.

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colyn
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby colyn » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:03 am

Incentive I.C wrote:He already told you why he thinks its a good idea and he is just sharing his thoughts. I don't mean to sound harsh but chill out.


I was just asking the OP a simple question. He implied that because he was a former "advanced" Windows user he was more qualified to decide that KDE and XFCE should be dropped.

Nothing wrong with asking him the question...

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colyn
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby colyn » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:09 am

nobodynoze wrote:I would not blame them one bit if they dropped KDE. KDE is bloated trash.


No more than any other distro...in fact I find it the best for what I do. Currently my conky is showing 24-26% ram use and both cores are running around 2-13% usage.. I wouldn't call that bloated..

nobodynoze wrote:I just had a distro I was using suddenly not boot up and the DE is KDE on that one. I am using LMDE w/ Cinnamon and Ubuntu with Gnome on separate partitions, respectively, but they're booting normally. I have had countless problems with any distro that was using KDE. Every new release of KDE gets worse.


Sounds to me like a hardware issue..

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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby The Dark Side » Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:52 am

This really it sounds like a very Bad Idea. No, it's not only a bad idea, it really it's a Terrible Idea. Remove editions of Linux Mint that have (both) considerable public is a very Bad Idea.....

There are many people who prefer Linux Mint KDE or Linux Mint XFCE, instead of Kubuntu or Xubuntu. In my humble concept, without a doubt, Linux Mint it's better, and it has many less errors that Kubuntu or Xubuntu how, (although both they have improved a lot with it's latest editions).-

"KDE is bloated trash." Do not believe it, at all !!!! KDE continues to improve, when you leave you'll see KDE 5..... And something both, Linux Mint KDE, Kubuntu and OpenSuse KDE how to have a really good number of users.... By the way, I throw an idea in the long term, I would like to see.... An Edition of Linux Mint 18 LXQT Desktop.... from what little which, I saw LXQT Desktop promising. What do you think ???? Best Regards for All.-
Linux Mint 17.3 Cinnamon
Linux Mint 17.3 KDE
Manjaro Linux XFCE (OpenRC)
Pisi Linux 2.0 (Beta)

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Postby SMarais » Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:31 am

I'm mainly using Cinnamon or Mate. So if the team decides to drop KDE and xfce I might not even notice it.
But some people actually do like these two desktop environment and the beauty of Linux is the ability to choose between various software to experience the most perfect use of your computer according to your personal feelings.
So if the team is able to continue the support for these two DE then I'm perfectly fine with it especially if it offers all the minty flavors according to your personal feelings.
I prefer to have the choice then no choice. My freedom is to be able to install whatever I want because a tram is offering me the choice.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it doesn't fit your needs :)
I have LM Running on all these computers

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Nilla Wafer
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby Nilla Wafer » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:11 pm

I'm quite attached to my Xfce Mint. If it left, I would go back to Xubuntu or maybe check out that cool Xubuntu-based Voyager distro.

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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby Orbmiser » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:45 pm

Yep sounds like the mis-informed here about what makes Linux Mint Great which is choice. Tho now using SolydK KDE which is Debian based is a off-shoot from the wonderful Mint Team & Family.

And KDE is NOT Bloated! Mine chimes in to desktop at 302mb with full effects and apps are smooth and snappy. Couldn't say that about Cinnamon which was a bit more cludgy and not as smooth and snappy. But that was back in Mint 15 Cinnamon days and expect it to have improved since then. Tho when I ran Cinnamon it chimed in at 482mb. Ubuntu Unity at 540mb and wasn't as snappy and smooth as my KDE desktop.

So please stop spreading FUD saying it's KDE when in fact issues have more to do with Hardware. I know 2 people that are running KDE on 2gb Netbooks and are happy and completely satsified with the results. And there is a giant following of another great DE ant that is Xfce.

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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby george_angel » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:15 am

I never expected starting such a debate when i initially posted my opinion but let me clarify.
Coming from a different OS ecosystem i can tell you that "too much choice" especially for the desktop environment IS damaging the linux ecosystem no matter what everybody says. It's confusing for the new user.
My opinion in dropping XFCE and KDE is based on the fact that Cinnamon and Mate are flagship DE's, one for newer and the latter for older hardware. Hence the technical need for XFCE and KDE is covered, they exist only for variety of choice.
They are also pretty much the "signature" DE's of the project since if you want to have the best cinnamon or mate experience you SHOULD try them on Mint.
I feel for the big number of the XFCE and KDE users of Mint, all i was emphasizing is that any project needs FOCUS to move forward.
And by focusing all development to the flagship DE's can only make them better.

Having said that, i give huge respect to the developers and I didn't want to create any debates.
Just giving food for thought.

george_angel
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby george_angel » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:30 am

and 'colyn' relax and don't get aggressive.
I'm not trying to make decisions for the Mint project, I wouldn't want to. They have been doing a fantastic job without me all this time.. ;)
Sharing thoughts and opinions is the forums purpose, right?

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Postby SMarais » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:08 am

You are misinformed. The only thing added to KDE and xfce is the look and feel of mint nothing more.
The main work is made with Cinnamon and Mate. It's also the reason why the KDE and xfce releases are differed from the two others DE.
I have LM Running on all these computers

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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby xenopeek » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:02 am

SMarais wrote:You are misinformed.

Xenopeek hands you a mirror because you need one :) Go back in time before Cinnamon and MATE; what defines Linux Mint isn't Cinnamon and MATE but the default selection of applications, default configuration, easy installation, already installed codecs, the Mint tools, the community, and so on.

Yes, Linux Mint developers started the Cinnamon project and were involved with the MATE project from the start. But that's not what defines Linux Mint. There are other reasons users prefer to use Linux Mint aside from it having arguably the best Cinnamon and MATE experience. You're disregarding all the other software developed by Linux Mint and choices made for each edition. Recall Whisker menu (for Xfce) was first adopted by Linux Mint for example, and KDE out of the box on Linux Mint is configured to behave much more like other Linux Mint editions than other KDE distros.
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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby killer de bug » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:34 am

george_angel wrote:Coming from a different OS ecosystem i can tell you that "too much choice" especially for the desktop environment IS damaging the linux ecosystem no matter what everybody says. It's confusing for the new user.


It's easier to find a new car hein? Less choice, right? :lol:
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If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby george_angel » Sat Jul 19, 2014 5:35 pm

killer de bug wrote:
george_angel wrote:Coming from a different OS ecosystem i can tell you that "too much choice" especially for the desktop environment IS damaging the linux ecosystem no matter what everybody says. It's confusing for the new user.


It's easier to find a new car hein? Less choice, right? :lol:


Ehmmm... no. When you get in a car you know where the steering wheel, gas petal, handbrake, etc are. Now compare gnome 3 to e18 to KDE to whatever else is out there. If that was the change to your new car you would need a whole new driving licence course just to drive it home from the dealer..

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Re: Drop KDE and Xfce editions of Linux Mint

Postby pgmer6809 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:00 pm

KDE is one of the major DE technologies in the Linux ecosystem.
It is also under active development; there is no telling when some distro such as Ubuntu or Debian might decide to use the QT libraries as the basis for one of their future releases.
By keeping a KDE version of Mint current, the Mint team is hedging their bets. If they had to base their main DE on QT libraries they would have some familiarity with them, and some assurance that the core of Mint is not completely incompatible with them.

pgmer6809


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