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Small team, many projects

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:48 pm
by TheRed-
Why your so small team don't work only on the major project Linux Mint Cinnamon?
Which is the sense about Mint XFCE, Mint Mate and Mint KDE if already exists Ubuntu mate, xubuntu and Kubuntu?

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:52 pm
by xenopeek
There are many different people working on Linux Mint, in various capacities. They may work on Cinnamon's software collection, the Linux Mint tools (like Software Manager or Update Manager), themes, artwork, building the ISOs, testing, bug triaging, bug fixing, brainstorming ideas, integration of other desktop environments (MATE, Xfce, KDE), user support, documentation, translations or any other tasks that come into play building a Linux distribution and developing software.

You seem to say the teams are biting off more than they can chew. Ultimately that's up to the teams themselves, right? As long as they enjoy doing what they are doing, the things they work on are useful to and valued by Linux Mint's users, and the work fits in their day—where's the problem?

As to what's the sense of a MATE, Xfce and KDE edition if Ubuntu Mate, Xubuntu and Kubuntu already exist? For Ubuntu MATE I'll let you answer that as that project started two years after Linux Mint MATE :wink: For MATE and Xfce Linux Mint clearly takes a very different approach to the desktop layout and to default installed programs. For all editions the Linux Mint tools are added on top. Some users prefer the Linux Mint approach, some users prefer the *buntu approach. As long as Linux Mint's users enjoy using the Linux Mint editions—where's the problem?

You can't make people work on something they don't enjoy working on; MATE, Xfce and KDE users aren't suddenly going to start contributing their time to Cinnamon if you cut out those editions :wink: So cutting away Linux Mint editions doesn't mean there are more people working on Cinnamon.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 4:32 pm
by Hoser Rob
Maybe because some people (like me for instance) don't actually like Cinnamon all that much?

Besides, Ubuntu didn't develop Xfce or KDE etc. They're all upstream projects.

Actually, lack of proper developer staff IS a big problem in Linux generally. As a Debian developer once said, managing an open source project is like herding kittens. They're always disappearing because they all have other jobs. But I don't think that particuarly applies here.

Besides, despite the larger Ubuntu dev staff, I think the KDE and Xfce MInt versions are a lot better than Ubuntu's.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 6:58 am
by TheRed-
Ok, but who work on Mint xfce or mate for example why don't work directly on the major project xubuntu or ubuntu mate? I think the development is much faster if they work in a single project, or not? Isn't there too much fragmentation?

OT: how can I do to visualize the notification when someone responds on topik? I had lost this thread.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:32 am
by Moem
TheRed- wrote:how can I do to visualize the notification when someone responds on topik?
You can subscribe to a topic by using the 'subscribe' option that's in the drop down menu when you click on the spanner symbol button, found below each thread.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:38 am
by TheRed-
Moem wrote:
TheRed- wrote:how can I do to visualize the notification when someone responds on topik?
You can subscribe to a topic by using the 'subscribe' option that's in the drop down menu when you click on the spanner symbol button, found below each thread.
Thanks. Now your answare was notificated (I dont' know why..). For my thread the subscription isnt't by default?

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:41 am
by Moem
TheRed- wrote:Now your answare was notificated (I dont' know why..).
Because I quoted a piece of your text. Like I'm doing now, so you'll be notified again.
TheRed- wrote:For my thread the subscription isnt't by default?
That's correct. It isn't.

Another helpful feature: the 'Quick links' menu at the top of the page has a link to 'Your posts'.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:54 am
by xenopeek
Indeed, you are notified when somebody quotes you. You are not notified of replies to topics where you have posted. You see that with the Quick links > Your posts link on the left edge of the light green bar at the top of this page. Topics where you have posted that have new comments that you haven't read yet are marked with a red icon in front of them.
TheRed- wrote:Ok, but who work on Mint xfce or mate for example why don't work directly on the major project xubuntu or ubuntu mate?
That's a bit silly. Go ask Ubuntu and all its derivatives why they don't contribute to Debian instead as that is the major project and ultimate progenitor of them all :wink: As for Ubuntu MATE, like I already said that started 2 years after Linux Mint MATE so why ask this of Linux Mint? :)

Linux Mint is doing what they think makes the best operating system. All the software Linux Mint developers is free software (libre and gratis) and they contribute to various upstream projects like MATE.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:40 am
by TheRed-
Moem wrote: Because I quoted a piece of your text. Like I'm doing now, so you'll be notified again.

That's correct. It isn't.
Now is all more clear :D
Another helpful feature: the 'Quick links' menu at the top of the page has a link to 'Your posts'.
This is amazing!!

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 8:48 am
by TheRed-
TheRed- wrote: As for Ubuntu MATE, like I already said that started 2 years after Linux Mint MATE so why ask this of Linux Mint? :)
This I had lost it... so rightly the question is directly for the ubuntu mate team :D But not for xubuntu or mint kde (maybe).

Anyway if you have not seen it yet I posted here some tips found from my user experience about Mint Cinnamon.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:06 am
by MintBean
TheRed- wrote:Ok, but who work on Mint xfce or mate for example why don't work directly on the major project xubuntu or ubuntu mate? I think the development is much faster if they work in a single project, or not? Isn't there too much fragmentation?
Again, Ubuntu Mate came AFTER mint, so shouldn't you be asking them why they created Ubuntu MATE and didn't work on Linux Mint? If someone decides to create a Ubuntu Cinnamon flavour, must the Mint team down tools and go and work on that?

People work on what they choose to work on. Actually, Linux Mint and Ubuntu MATE collaborate to introduce improvements to the MATE desktop, so there is not so much wasted effort as you may assume.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 9:36 am
by Hoser Rob
TheRed- wrote:... Isn't there too much fragmentation? ....
God yes, and this topic is only one small part of it. That's one of the biggest Linux issues and it goes far beyond Mint and Ubuntu and the DEs they use.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:00 am
by MintBean
Okay, so let's say we could wave a magic wand today and there would be only one distro with everyone working on it. Okay, it's the crummy Gnome desktop on top of an Arch rolling release which is hard to keep running and requires a lot of knowledge to fix when it breaks. Not what you like? Tough. You thought everyone was going to get behind exactly what you wanted? Nah. You've got one choice and like it or lump it.

There are advantages to that 'fragmentation.'

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:35 pm
by TheRed-
Here we are not speaking about different distros, but the same ones with only default programs different... If you say about Fedora, openSuse, Ubuntu, Arch ok, but the existence of Xubuntu, Mint Xfce, Mint Mate, Ubuntu Mate, Kubuntu, Mint KDE, KDE Neon, Zorin OS (ubuntu based and Xfce again), ecc. for me has no sense.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:41 pm
by xenopeek
TheRed- wrote:for me has no sense.
Things don't exist just because they make sense to you :wink: Do we really need as many car brands as we have today? Many come out of the same factories even. It doesn't make any sense. We should just all get the latest iCar or the new Windows Car 365. Throw choice out of the window. The one with the best ad campaign, the best tax evasion, the best government bribes, the best anti competitive actions, the best locking in of their "customers", and so on should be the one you get to drive. And yes, cars are now a subscription service. You don't own your car. And there is a 300 page "EULA". And your car shares who you're driving where with the government.

The opposite end of that is we have common car parts and several teams try to build what they think is the best general car or the best car for a specific purpose. Even using the same components, tweaks and customization and additional features can build something better suited to your needs from mostly the same components (noting that Linux Mint adds software on top of what is available in the Ubuntu repositories, so we do work with more than just the common components :wink:).

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:43 pm
by Schultz
I like Mint. And I like Mate. I'm glad there is a Mint Mate. I'd be hard pressed if Mint dumped Mate. Would I stay with Mint and go with Xfce? Or would I dump Mint to stick with Mate? I'm glad I don't have to choose.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:41 pm
by catweazel
Hoser Rob wrote:
TheRed- wrote:... Isn't there too much fragmentation? ....
God yes, and this topic is only one small part of it. That's one of the biggest Linux issues and it goes far beyond Mint and Ubuntu and the DEs they use.
I disagree that it's a problem. The proliferation of different distros brings a positive wave of evolution and progression to Linux, especially the desktop.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:17 pm
by mr_raider
This comes up every few years, and gets rehashed in the forum. And usually it's KDE/XFCE that people drag up to the guillotine, and inevitably there is a reprieve. To put it plainly, I like XFCE and KDE more than Cinnamon and MAte, and I find them to be solid stable well finished products. The fact these are widespread DEs with upstream support and a big dev community is a plus in my book for Mint, since it allows the Mint people to focus on Mint specific changes. For KDE, much of the work is coming out of the Kubuntu backports repo anyway.

Should Mint ever dump both XFCE and KDE, I would be hard pressed to make a choice. I might consider moving to Mate, but most likely, go to Kubuntu or KDE Neon. That being said, the Ubuntu forums give me a headache.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:24 pm
by BG405
If there wasn't a LM KDE edition, I would be using a different distro for my KDE machines. I for one am grateful for the efforts put in to making the LM KDE (and Xfce) distros.

Re: Small team, many projects

Posted: Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:29 pm
by catweazel
I agree with mr_raider and BG405. I run KDE on my desktops and Xfce on my servers. I use Xfce on the servers because it's the bees knees over a VNC connection.