Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

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emorrp1
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby emorrp1 » Sun Oct 04, 2009 3:31 pm

Thanks ThePicker, can you also post the output of these commands:

Code: Select all

sensors
sudo powernowd -v

Normal temperature is c. 40 degrees C
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ThePicker
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby ThePicker » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:20 pm

emorrp1 wrote:Thanks ThePicker, can you also post the output of these commands:

sensors

Code: Select all

~ $ sensors
acpitz-virtual-0
Adapter: Virtual device
temp1:        +0.0°C  (crit = +106.0°C)                 

coretemp-isa-0000
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 0:      +68.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C) 

coretemp-isa-0001
Adapter: ISA adapter
Core 1:      +68.0°C  (high = +100.0°C, crit = +100.0°C) 


emorrp1 wrote:sudo powernowd -v
Normal temperature is c. 40 degrees C

[/quote]

Code: Select all

~ $ sudo powernowd -v
[sudo] password for mrg:
powernowd: PowerNow Daemon v1.00, (c) 2003-2008 John Clemens
powernowd: Settings:
powernowd:   verbosity:        1
powernowd:   mode:             1     (AGGRESSIVE)
powernowd:   step:           100 MHz (100000 kHz)
powernowd:   lowwater:        20 %
powernowd:   highwater:       80 %
powernowd:   poll interval: 1000 ms
powernowd: about to return count = 1
powernowd: Found 2 scalable units:  -- 1 'CPU' per scalable unit
powernowd:   cpu0: 1000Mhz - 2166Mhz (4 steps)
powernowd:      step1 : 2166Mhz
powernowd:      step2 : 1666Mhz
powernowd:      step3 : 1333Mhz
powernowd:      step4 : 1000Mhz
powernowd:   cpu1: 1000Mhz - 2166Mhz (4 steps)
powernowd:      step1 : 2166Mhz
powernowd:      step2 : 1666Mhz
powernowd:      step3 : 1333Mhz
powernowd:      step4 : 1000Mhz

It's a no-fan session, and the temperature seems to be holding steady at 68. Not normal, but it seemed to be getting hotter yesterday.

Does something seem wrong with the "critical" temps - shouldn't they be somewhere below that of boiling water?
Last edited by ThePicker on Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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DrHu
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby DrHu » Sun Oct 04, 2009 8:37 pm

OK, what about that powernow selection, ?
http://archpub20.cs.ccu.edu.tw/cgi-bin/ ... owernowd/1
    The name is somewhat misleading, as any processor supported by the ker-
    nel cpufreq driver will work, not just processors supporting AMD's Pow-
    erNow! technology. This daemon works best with processors that support
    more then 2 frequency steps, like those with AMD's PowerNow!, and
    Intel's Pentium M family.
--which apparently your T3400 is (Pentium M type)
    Mode 1, AGGRESSIVE, changes frequency by a sawtooth function.
    Immediately jumps
    to the highest frequency whenever CPU usage goes over
    80%, and decreases by "step" Hz as usage drops below 20%. This is the
    default behavior.
    Just in general, sawtooth wave is sharp/jumpy, sine wave is smooth

What is the status of cpufreqd
http://www.go2linux.org/how-to-configure-cpufreqd

The simplest solution for notebooks that are too hot in normal operation..
The simple solution is to use a notebook cooler, despite any value in software control of cooling..
http://www.asiannet.com/companies/2937/ ... olers.html
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2085040/n ... ooler_pad/

passive heatsinks..
http://www.superwarehouse.com/Targus_Po ... /p/1504138
http://www.uxsight.com/product/41912/la ... k-pad.html
active (fans) ..
http://www.uxsight.com/product/20279/us ... -fans.html

Many of these notebooks run hot, there are many complaints on that level; and this is due to the small packaging used and the lack of air ports for hot air (cooling fan circulation to escape
usually it is the keyboard or the base of the unit that hot air is expelled; neither are ideal, and probably best is to use specific vents on back or side, like Thinkpads: however the cooler devices, either passive (heatsink ) style or active, fan controlled style can be both fairly cheap and effective.

Notebooks run hot..
http://apcmag.com/nvidia_sued_chips_and ... un_hot.htm

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=159542
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/29287-35-laptops
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/archi ... 78077.html

ThePicker
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby ThePicker » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:20 pm

DrHu wrote:OK, what about that powernow selection, ?
http://archpub20.cs.ccu.edu.tw/cgi-bin/ ... owernowd/1
    The name is somewhat misleading, as any processor supported by the ker-
    nel cpufreq driver will work, not just processors supporting AMD's Pow-
    erNow! technology. This daemon works best with processors that support
    more then 2 frequency steps, like those with AMD's PowerNow!, and
    Intel's Pentium M family.
--which apparently your T3400 is (Pentium M type)
    Mode 1, AGGRESSIVE, changes frequency by a sawtooth function.
    Immediately jumps
    to the highest frequency whenever CPU usage goes over
    80%, and decreases by "step" Hz as usage drops below 20%. This is the
    default behavior.
    Just in general, sawtooth wave is sharp/jumpy, sine wave is smooth

What is the status of cpufreqd
http://www.go2linux.org/how-to-configure-cpufreqd

Uh-oh. I installed cpufreqd, successfully, I think - here is the output for the install process:

Code: Select all

~ $ sudo aptitude install cpufreqd
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Reading extended state information     
Initializing package states... Done
No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 15 not upgraded.
Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used.
Writing extended state information... Done
Reading package lists... Done             
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Reading extended state information     
Initializing package states... Done


but when I ran the next command

Code: Select all

sudo lsmod | grep cpufreq

there was no ouptput, as was apparently expected. No response at all. I tried this command without the spaces around the pipe, but there were still no results. Something else must be missing other than the removed powernowd, any idea what it might be? If it isn't resolved, will this get in the way of solutions such as the notebook cooler?

Dr Hu wrote:The simplest solution for notebooks that are too hot in normal operation..
The simple solution is to use a notebook cooler, despite any value in software control of cooling..
http://www.asiannet.com/companies/2937/ ... olers.html

passive heatsinks..
http://www.superwarehouse.com/Targus_Po ... /p/1504138
http://www.uxsight.com/product/41912/la ... k-pad.html
active (fans) ..
http://www.uxsight.com/product/20279/us ... -fans.html

Many of these notebooks run hot, there are many complaints on that level; and this is due to the small packaging used and the lack of air ports for hot air (cooling fan circulation to escape
usually it is the keyboard are or the base of the unit that hot air is expelled; neither are ideal, and probably best is to use specific vents on back or side, like Thinkpads: however the cooler devices, either passive (heatsink ) style or active, fan controlled style can be both fairly cheap and effective.

Notebooks run hot..
http://apcmag.com/nvidia_sued_chips_and ... un_hot.htm

http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=159542
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/29287-35-laptops
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/archi ... 78077.html

Henry
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby Henry » Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:59 pm

I just wanted to say I have installed Mint as primary OS on a Compaq Presario V6000. For the previous three years it has run Windows. In those three years the laptop was hot, one could never use it on their lap, the fan would be on constantly. Now it whispers and even the power supply is cooler... just an observation that Mint is not a laptop toaster.
MSI A6000, 2x Intel Core 2 Duo CPU T6600 @ 2.20GHz, 4 gig memory, 320 gig hd,
AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter, Nvidia GeForce 9200M G
Mint 8 and Windows 7 dual boot

ThePicker
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby ThePicker » Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:30 pm

Henry wrote:I just wanted to say I have installed Mint as primary OS on a Compaq Presario V6000. For the previous three years it has run Windows. In those three years the laptop was hot, one could never use it on their lap, the fan would be on constantly. Now it whispers and even the power supply is cooler... just an observation that Mint is not a laptop toaster.


Hey, would it be a MInt-specific problem anyway? My laptop has had this problem with Ubuntu and Ubuntu-based distros (Mepis and Mint). Ubuntu is Debian tweaked, don't ask me the specifics. I don't know about the standard Debian, since I never was able to get it set up. The three Red Hat-based distros which I tried (if I am correct that this is so of Mandriva, Fedora, Centos - I know they are neither standard Debian nor Ubuntu), for all the grief they gave me, always ran cool.

So, I guess it really does depend on what hardware you are using. Isn't it sad that Linux issues can only be resolved by how many say "heyl, you shouldn't say that because I didn't / I had that problem on mine", while Microsoft problems get resolved by the dictates of one single organization, and are followed by all hardware manufacturers. There are certain advantages to monopoly power, even for the consumer, but I'm still not willing
to pay hundreds of dollars per installation for it, and then get all the spyware, virus problems, bloatware, and fragmentation.

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby AK Dave » Tue Oct 06, 2009 6:19 pm

ThePicker wrote:I did not post to ask for help with my specific problem of the moment, but to ask the Mint/Ubuntu community to be more attentive to this known, and chronic issue.


You don't want help with a specific problem, then you must be here to rant generically. What a profound waste of effort.

The reality of these heat and power issues, especially with laptops, is that they are complicated multi-factoral problems. There is not one simple solution to a simple problem. There are lots of factors, and depending on your hardware they may need to be addressed in different ways. One size, most certainly, does not fit all.

A huge factor in a lot of overheat problems has to do with the end user: what you do with your computer. I can get my laptop very hot, but not dangerously so, with Flash video. But not with AVI video. Youtube, for example, pegs the thermostat.

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby DrHu » Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:09 am

ThePicker wrote:Uh-oh. I installed cpufreqd, successfully, I think - here is the output for the install process:

Nope that listing shows that nothing was installed

Code: Select all

No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed.
0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 15 not upgraded.
Need to get 0B of archives. After unpacking 0B will be used.
Anyway you can check if it is installed simply by typing into a terminal
cpufregd
--and checking the message
ThePicker wrote:I did not post to ask for help with my specific problem of the moment, but to ask the Mint/Ubuntu community to be more attentive to this known, and chronic issue.

I had forgotten that was your original message, except to advice you that Linux doesn't toast notebooks any more than Windows or Apple does

To echo AK Dave comment
    "A huge factor in a lot of overheat problems has to do with the end user: what you do with your computer."
You are way off about Linux toasting notebooks

And that it probably was a waste of time & effort.

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby catilley » Sat Oct 10, 2009 1:31 am

I've been running Mint for about a month now, and I've noticed no unusual heat or burning odor. And my laptop is notorious for overheating (Dell Latitude C640). In fact, it gets hotter running XP Pro. The only time that my laptop has come close to overheating was when converting ISO downloads into bootable live CD's or when installing a new OS. Then it gets hot and even slows down. Just my opinion, but I don't think it's Mint. Do you have two laptops to prove this on? I have Mint on two (the other one is a Dell Latitude D610) laptops with no troubles. And I spend 3 to 5 hours at a time on them every night. If you have a second laptop, install and try it on that. Also, I have Ubuntu, and no troubles with that, either. All laptops get a little hot when you have used it a while. I've never had one that didn't.

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby emorrp1 » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:33 am

please note that the OP said this *doesn't* happen in Fedora, or other RPM-based distros, which means it should somehow be possible to port that over (this won't help my case, I tested fedora last night, and didn't do a thing)
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby ageeb » Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:32 am

ThePicker wrote:Here below is an all-too typical response to another respondent's similar problem last year (mine differs in that the fan doesn't run at all)


And your BIOS doesn't bark at you for having your CPU fan down? Can you adjust it to be fixed speed rather than by temperature in BIOS? Do you have BIOS updates available to you? I realize you're not looking for a solution, but i'm just curious on a personal level.

As far as not looking for a solution and just trying to make dev's, etc aware of the problem, i suspect NOT bringing them detailed info won't allow them to replicate the problem and therefore fix the problem.

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby RonP » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:42 am

This sounds like a hardware issue. You did not specify the brand of PC, but the OS is not responsible for fan operation in PCs I repair. We replace failing fans, motherboards and CPUs for this issue constantly. It is not limited to laptops but effects desktops as well.

Another cause can be dust accumulation blocking the airflow. I have corrected minor overheating in hundreds of machines by cleaning the dust from the cooling channels (including my own). Electronic systems attract and hold dust. Try a shot of canned air. If the problem persists, particularly no fan operation (overheats) or a runaway fan (obnoxious), contact the manufacturer for service.

Oh, and one other thing, I have had customers complaining of overheating and found the unit sitting on a pillow because it was more comfortable. The pillow (or any soft surface) can block proper ventilation and cause overheating.

RonP

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby xieu90 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:07 am

I am also a novice
but i think linux has some problem in driver,firmware or programm
cause with a brandnew computer and on the floor (so no dust no pillow and in room temperature) it is still hot.
at least hotter than xp
xp idle 34-39 (speedfan)
linux(ubuntu,mint) 44-55 (lm-sensor)
(idle = running nothing, only windows or linux, or + firefox with only 1 website)

there might be also standard diference in temperature programms.
so i checked xp and linux with my own nose and comb too.
the result : linux is hotter than xp

long ago i tried to use compiz with my desktop (which has ati card, and of course it had problem with driver)
before install driver from ati website / driver with envy , the temperature was cool/warm
after install its temperature is always hot = 100% load when I play games in xp (so even when i just get pass gdm and get into linux it will be that hot and stay like that until i shutdown the computer)

that was only an example
back to topic
so i think there is something wrong with driver of something (cpu ?, cpu fan controll ?, harddrive ? videocard ? or ram ?)
but that is only a guess of a novice.
what do you think then ?

a joke:
may be because linux is becoming another vista and that hot temperature becomes standard ?
if so then we are moving along with earth, everything will be hot, and everyone will be hot


















what did you think hot means ? sexy? roasted ?
^^
I thought of roasted ^^ :lol:

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby lumi » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:54 pm

Mint actually fixed my overheating problem. In my last weeks with XP, it had got to the point that my Dell Inspiron 6400 would shut down at least once or twice a day. It was so annoying that I switched to Linux - and never had that problem again ;)

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby catilley » Sun Dec 27, 2009 8:09 pm

Any OS will burn a laptop, depending on how you use it. Do you watch DVD's while on your laptop? It doesn't matter about the brand or OS that is running on it, it will get hot playing them. Do you keep your vents vaccumed or blowed out? If you don't, your laptop will run hot. I've never had an OS to overheat a laptop. In fact, this is the most ridiculos thing I've heard of regarding this issue. Mabye you should try Puppy Linux out. If that makes your laptop overheat, you either need to take it to the shop (or dump preferably) or consider buying a new one. If after buying a new one and everything works right, if Mint overheats it, then mabye I'd believe it.

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby Husse » Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:28 am

This is in the end controlled by BIOS
If for some reason the fans do not start or run properly the BIOS will shut down the computer before it is in danger of being destroyed
Image
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby hunkirdowne » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:16 pm

Husse wrote:This is in the end controlled by BIOS
If for some reason the fans do not start or run properly the BIOS will shut down the computer before it is in danger of being destroyed


While I certainly agree, the problem I had -- and I think it is at least similar to The Picker's issue -- seemed to be a software (OS) issue at least with respect to turning fans on as needed to maintain temperature below threshold. This appeared first on Ubuntu Hardy and was a repeatable issue when I booted Ubuntu and non-existent when booting WinXP. For reference, I'm listing some Ubuntu forum threads:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=771258
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=821597
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1070474

Hardy was where I first noticed I had a problem but I don't recall if it was with the original install, initial update, or a subsequent update where the problem first appeared. I was not using Mint or Debian actively at the time. The problem disappeared with an upgrade to Intrepid. The laptop on which I had a problem is no longer in commission due to a hardware failure that has not been thoroughly diagnosed and I'm not ruling out the temperature issue as at least a contributing factor to it's demise, but it saw quite a bit of service over the years so maybe something totally unrelated failed.

More information available upon request but I think I've probably posted more than enough for a side note to this thread. ;-)
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby tacoz » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:25 am

Given these threads... I was rather nervously curious when I installed Mint 8 on a new Samsung R522 that I bought the wife for Christmas. It's had about four weeks of Mint usage... and going well!

Initially I tried to dual boot it with the pre-installed Windows 7 but that crashed the boot process entirely and neither system was able to boot. With the second attempt I elected to use the whole disk and made new partitions... the web cam, microphone, HDMI to the big screen, wireless connection all worked first time. The only additional apps I added were skype, sound-juicer and dvd:rip. Finally I have the whole family using Mint and there are only two instances of Win7--both running in Virtualbox--one in my workplace and one on the kid's PC and that only because they teach IT at high school via the Microsoft platform.

But to get back to this topic of hot laptops... we've watch DVDs, skype, etc and there is definitely no excessive heat problem here. Maybe the fact that we live in Zululand where heat is an issue anyway puts this machine in a context. Unlike most folk around here, we don't have air conditioners but the house is cool enough. Point is... when I first saw these threads around Christmas and over the weeks watched the cpu/fan performance... I'm not fussed about the current heat output (normal) and once again... I applaud Mint!

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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby hunkirdowne » Sat Jan 23, 2010 11:04 am

tacoz wrote:Given these threads... I was rather nervously curious when I installed Mint 8 on a new Samsung R522 that I bought the wife for Christmas. It's had about four weeks of Mint usage... and going well!



First, I'm glad things are going well. Mint8 is impressive to say the least.

Second, what I have been attempting to describe with respect to laptops overheating (and possibly one desktop but I have not been able to pin down the exact cause yet) is something that came along all of a sudden like with Ubuntu Hardy, I believe but possibly sooner, and ended with either Intrepid or Jaunty -- the former, I think. In any event, this phenomenon is not evident in Linux Mint 8 Helena, Ubuntu Karmic, or Debian GNU/Linux 5.0.3 so whatever the problem was seems to have been fixed. Although I was not using Linux Mint prior to the problem being solved, I can say that the problem I had existed on both the Ubuntu and Debian platforms.

Finally, if someone is having a hot laptop issue now and they are using an updated kernel, I would say it is a separate issue.

My dos centavos.

Enjoy!
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Re: Mint burns laptops, please don't leave it to another distr

Postby grizwald » Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:14 pm

I have a H/P laptop which overheats on a regular basis. I discovered after trying an assortment of fixes that it was caused by collection of lint piled up on one side of the microprocessor heatsink inside the Laptop. This gets sucked in through the air vent on the base of the unit and over time accumulates over the internal heatsink fins on top of the microprocessor allowing the heat to build up to quite high levels. Obviously diving into the Laptop innards is not for the feint hearted but happily access to the microprocessor heatsink isn't too difficult. I removed the appropriate cover, gently unscrewed the heatsink retaining screws and removed it. There is no need to remove the microprocessor. Then the dust was brushed off the fins and any more dust inside the laptop is removed. I next re-smeared the thermal conductive paste evenly over the base of the heatsink before returning it to its original position. Everything now runs cool again for several more months before the process needs to be repeated.

Obviously this isn't the cure for everyones overheating problems but if your fan runs at high speed and the air coming out of your Laptop is very hot, then you may like to give this solution some thought.

Good Luck.

G.


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