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Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:31 am
by viking777
There is an awful lot of work going into the new LMDE update packs at the moment, but there are some, and I am one, for whom it is not suitable to the way we use the internet as well as to our personal preferences. However it is pretty obvious to me from this thread and others like it that there is a very strong desire for a more stable Debian edition than that based on 'Testing'. It doesn't need a genius to work out that that comes from tracking the 'Stable' repositories as many here have already stated. Now I know you can do this easily enough for yourself if you have some knowledge of Debian repos and editing sources.list, but the very people who probably most desire a stable distro are the very people that don't have that knowledge - ie. brand new Linux users.

So to my mind a Mint distro based on Debian Stable is a far easier solution than one based on update packs from Testing.

But does easier mean better?

There are downsides to almost every option you choose, many have already been pointed out in this thread. Debian stable is relatively new at the moment, and probably works with most hardware/software, but in a couple of years time that will no longer be the case and we will have the howls of anguish from Mint Stable users that their distro won't work with their new 8g holographic TV unit. Well no, it won't. And I am sure this is why Clem has tried to 'civilise' Testing with his pack system. Long term though I think it will turn out to be more work than explaining to users of 'Mint Stable' why their new hardware doesn't run and offering them the choice to upgrade to the 'Testing' edition.

So my favoured option would probably be:

Mint Main - based on Ubuntu - because that appears to be what Clem wants.
LMDE - based on Debian Testing - because that is what I want :D
Mint Stable - based on Debian Stable - because there is a big demand for it.

The various desktop editions can make their own choices as to which one they are based on.

It wouldn't be perfect, nothing is, but in the long run I think it would be understandable for new users and easier to maintain for developers.

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 4:17 pm
by KBD47
I second the idea of a Mint version built on Debian stable. My first experience downloading and using Linux was on a 5 year old desktop using Mepis, built on Debian stable. It is so solid I couldn't even manage to screw it up as a newbie. But take that, add all the necessary codecs and great polish of Mint and you would have a very good newbie system. Right now Mint is a good newbie system, but it would be nice to have a Debian stable very Long Term Support--say 4 to 5 years--version of Mint IMO.
KBD47
PS--newbie question: After a system is up and running well on the hardware and drivers, it seems next to newbie screw ups the biggest danger is updates that don't mix well. What is the best way to handle updates for stable, very long term system use without the danger of breaking something?

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:04 pm
by mzsade
I thought changing the sources.list to sid was all it took to have the stable edition...

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:42 am
by middling
mzsade wrote:I thought changing the sources.list to sid was all it took to have the stable edition...


Sid is unstable, you mean Squeeze. And it's not as simple as just changing the sources. Sure you can change them and have a stable system, but you have to forego the Mint specific packages because they're compiled for Debian Testing.

For instance the updated Mint Firefox wont work under stable, and there are various Mint packages that require versions of packages only available in testing and not stable.

I agree with the other posters that there is a real need for a Debian Stable-based Mint, with the Mint extras and a few select packages backported.

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 7:00 am
by mzsade
In that case my 2 paise in favor of a Mint Debian-stable edition. But i have to add that if one is a little careful when it comes to updating, you know, changing the smart update to "Always ask" and stuff like that, what we have at present is pretty solid too. Been using it ever since it came out and never had any issues, let alone a crash, and i am no better than your average Linux noob.
Just a thought, how about we wait until Sid becomes stable?

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:31 am
by viking777
how about we wait until Sid becomes stable?


Sid never becomes stable mzsade it always remains as unstable so it will be a long wait.

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:47 am
by mzsade
If i remember correctly, when LMDE first came out, Squeeze was still in testing; i was assuming that in a year or two Sid would be stable too, plenty of time i thought for the Mint team to plan ahead and make everything infallible.

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:58 am
by viking777
mzsade wrote:If i remember correctly, when LMDE first came out, Squeeze was still in testing; i was assuming that in a year or two Sid would be stable too, plenty of time i thought for the Mint team to plan ahead and make everything infallible.


This link should explain it better than I can:

http://www.debian.org/releases/sid/

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:14 am
by mzsade
Oh for bog's sake, viking777, now you really take me for a retard! :D What i meant was that just as packages from Squeeze "propagate"-d "into testing and then into a real release" (and this i have experienced during my lifetime), so was there the hope that the same would happen with Sid..in a year or two maybe.

Edit: :oops: I feel like such an idiot, the name should have been Wheezy all along..hope it makes a little more sense now.

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:10 am
by KBD47
I tried out Mint Debian for a few hours live dvd. It was nicer than a number of other Linux distros I've tried, but to me it has a somewhat unpolished feel to it, especially compared to regular Mint. I think in time it will likely be as nice as regular Mint, but would still like to see a Debian stable version.
KBD47

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:51 pm
by Suo_Eno
E17 + x86/AMD64 Sid base for main/desktop edition and same DE w/ MeeGo OR WebOS base for netbook, tablet and smartphone editions. Man that's just asking too much I know.. :oops:

Well to sum it up >the future of Mint< depends on moar devs + money.

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:57 pm
by linuxviolin
Suo_Eno wrote:WebOS base for netbook, tablet and smartphone editions.

WebOS is dead now, HP killed it.

HP said Thursday that it will discontinue its WebOS operations as the company cut its outlook for the next two quarters. (...)
The company said it ”will discontinue operations for webOS devices”, specifically the TouchPad and WebOS phones. (...)

There were signs that TouchPad sales were bleak, but a complete shutdown of WebOS operations was unexpected. (...)

The real kicker is that HP is going to discontinue its WebOS phones.


After paying almost Two Billion Dollars for Palm and its WebOS, HP announced that it is exiting the mobile phone and tablet business yesterday.

(Fri, 08/19/11 - 9:25am.)

...........................................

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:09 pm
by xenopeek
linuxviolin wrote:WebOS is dead now, HP killed it.

Yesterday's Linux Action Show has a good discussion on this topic and the future of both webOS and HP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75f-11MbERw&feature=player_detailpage#t=1510s

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:47 pm
by Suo_Eno
@linuxviolin

Noted. I'm just wishing that HP would open it out but it's sure as hell won't happen in the near term (if ever..). Apparently they're more convinced that any microwave oven or printer manufacturer are the better licensee candidates.

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:34 pm
by /dev/urandom
HP explicitly said they'll stop producing webOS hardware. See the difference...

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:23 pm
by linuxviolin
New change from HP.

Finally:

HP decides to keep its Personal Systems Group [Updated]

HP has decided it wants to stay in the PC business after all, and will not spin off or sell its Personal Systems Group

But:

Update 3.0: Whitman and PSG chief Todd Bradley also talked about webOS’ future and the HP’s tablet strategy.

Sorry, webOS TouchPad fans: Don’t expect a rebirth of that particular product. HP will re-enter the tablet business, but it will likely be via Windows 8 tablets once the new OS is released, probably sometime next year. A decision on what will happen with the webOS software will be made this year, Whitman said.

From HP decides to keep its Personal Systems Group [Updated]

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:31 am
by mrjoeyman
linuxviolin wrote:New change from HP.

Finally:

HP decides to keep its Personal Systems Group [Updated]

HP has decided it wants to stay in the PC business after all, and will not spin off or sell its Personal Systems Group

But:

Update 3.0: Whitman and PSG chief Todd Bradley also talked about webOS’ future and the HP’s tablet strategy.

Sorry, webOS TouchPad fans: Don’t expect a rebirth of that particular product. HP will re-enter the tablet business, but it will likely be via Windows 8 tablets once the new OS is released, probably sometime next year. A decision on what will happen with the webOS software will be made this year, Whitman said.

From HP decides to keep its Personal Systems Group [Updated]



I read tonight that its possible that Amazon will acquire webOS technology for their particular, and growing iterations. Jeff Bezos may be the new Steve Jobs. :mrgreen:

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:50 am
by /dev/urandom
However, great news! :)

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:15 am
by xenopeek
mrjoeyman wrote:I read tonight that its possible that Amazon will acquire webOS technology for their particular, and growing iterations. Jeff Bezos may be the new Steve Jobs. :mrgreen:

Well, I have no clue what Jeff Bezos looks like, while I think most people have a mental image of Steve Jobs. Still a way to go.

Re: The future of Mint

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:35 am
by /dev/urandom
Steve Jobs was, as a human, not really someone to copy. All the Chinese slavery, the arrogance, the (reported) several tries to blackmail the competitors...