IKEv2 with certificate charon-cmd works / strongswan-nm does not

[csmwalkabout]

Connecting to WatchGuard VPN with IKEV2 EAP

I have charon-cmd installed and with:
sudo charon-cmd --cert /etc/ipsec.d/cacerts/rootca.pem --host x.y.z.w --identity YYY - works then prompts password and I am connected

However

strongswan-nm with x.y.z.w and EAP and username YYY times out and does not connect.

my suspicion is that some extra connection info is needed in the strongswan-swanctl config file

Can anyone suggest what is required?

thanks
chris

installed packages are below.

'grep -i " install " /var/log/dpkg* '
var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 08:55:31 install libstrongswan:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 08:55:31 install strongswan-libcharon:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 08:55:31 install strongswan-charon:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 08:55:32 install strongswan-starter:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 08:55:32 install libcharon-extauth-plugins:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 08:55:32 install libstrongswan-standard-plugins:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 08:55:32 install strongswan:all <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 09:15:45 install libcharon-extra-plugins:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 09:15:45 install strongswan-nm:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-22 09:15:45 install network-manager-strongswan:amd64 <none> 1.4.5-2.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-24 10:27:41 install libstrongswan-extra-plugins:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-24 11:18:40 install strongswan-swanctl:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-24 11:28:26 install charon-cmd:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-25 09:43:24 install charon-systemd:amd64 <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-25 09:43:49 install libcharon-standard-plugins:all <none> 5.8.2-1ubuntu3.1
/var/log/dpkg.log:2021-04-25 09:45:20 install python3-charon:all <none> 4.4.1-2