A view from Joe Bloggs.

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bobfunduro
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A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby bobfunduro » Sun Oct 08, 2017 1:02 pm

Hi

This is going to upset a few but needs saying; make it easier! Make something that folk can plug in and go. No messing about creating this and converting that and putting in some gobbldy gook here and alter there. I'm still struggling after a year, on and off. Even bought 4 versions on CD to get round a whole lot of messing about. Loaded once by accident - don't know why.

A good question to ask is: Why has Linux not been developed with the ease of use, as has Windows? Go on - try and answer.

I know this'll upset the Linux hardcore but if you genuinely want the picture from Joe Bloggs to help promote Linux as this forum apparently wants - listen up.

I might argue that all the time you can load Windows (spit!) and it works without a problem (as you can) then Linux is the inferior product because you cannot load it with the same ease - I would argue it's beyond most who try it. Aha, yes - it's superior if and when it's loaded but until you get to that stage - Linux is inferior.

I wonder how many folk have been in my position and given up? Do you know how many have turned away without saying anything? Without exception, each that I've spoken too have given up, and that includes a successful computer professional ! To geeky they said. In fact, no one I have spoken too use it. Why? Because it is difficult to even to get to the base line of loading the programme! (Read para one again)

I have had some well intentioned and friendly help from this forum in particular (much appreciated) but the answers never spell out the whole answer - there's always a quirk somewhere. The web has tons of info, but you know, some is dated and no longer applicable and the rest never hit the nail on the head. there's always a quirk that's different. I wonder if 'Bill' would have cornered the market if everyone had to research getting Windows loaded?

I've messed about with computers (Speccys, Z81, QL, and the dreaded Windows) I'm no expert believe me, but I have an idea.

Hats off to the guys who redistribute old laptops with Linux for charity - wish I could do the same!

I really want Linux to work, I'm tired of Windows and all that that entails but there is no acceptable alternative.

Be interesting to see what reaction this brings?

Meanwhile back to trying to get Mint to load on an SSD.

Best wishes.

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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby Moem » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:51 pm

bobfunduro wrote:A good question to ask is: Why has Linux not been developed with the ease of use, as has Windows? Go on - try and answer.

Easy-peasy. Because of the $$$$$ that has been poured into the development of Windows and cannot be poured into Linux.
And also: most hardware is de facto produced for Windows, and more or less actively resists having anything else installed. That, again, has to do with $$$$$.

Many, many Windows users have never installed their own OS and would be hopelessly stuck if they tried.

Any other questions? :wink:
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby MrEen » Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:59 pm

bobfunduro wrote:Make something that folk can plug in and go.


That's exactly what I got on my new (to me) desktop. I had some trouble on my previous desktop until I figured out I had to actually make some room for the install (most sites never mention that step when you search "install linux mint") Once that was fixed, it's been smooth sailing for me.

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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby NChewie » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:16 pm

Why has Linux not been developed with the ease of use, as has Windows? Go on - try and answer.

Ok, I'll try.
Having installed Windows multiple times (as part of my old work) and maintained multiple machines in Windows before going anywhere near linux, I can tell you that it is much, much easier to install linux mint than it ever was to install windows.
From my experience of working in IT and software development for 12 years, most users did not install any operating system on their machines. Most came with an OS installed, or the IT department did the upgrades.

As to ease of use. The main reason that I installed linux on my machine was because windows xp went into a corrupted updates cycle that could not be repaired without a full reinstall... and it was quicker and easier to install mint (13).

I might argue that all the time you can load Windows (spit!) and it works without a problem (as you can)

[see above]. After my laptop died with a power supply issue, I replaced it with a new one. It came with Windows 7. Windows 7 had no drivers available for my scanner. The Windows 7 drivers for my laser printer produced one page every 2 minutes. I installed linux mint in a dual boot. In linux mint... both devices just worked, instantly, with no configuration or messing around.
So... in my experience, linux worked without a problem. Windows did (does) not.
I am still using the same peripherals and they work flawlessly (at normal speeds) with Mint 17.3 (and with Mint 18.2 on another PC that I recently installed mint on as the first operating system).

Meanwhile back to trying to get Mint to load on an SSD

Easy. Done it. Just read the manual (RTFM) and do what it says.
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby revian » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:29 pm

bobfunduro wrote:Hi

This is going to upset a few but needs saying; make it easier! Make something that folk can plug in and go. No messing about creating this and converting that and putting in some gobbldy gook here and alter there. I'm still struggling after a year, on and off. Even bought 4 versions on CD to get round a whole lot of messing about. Loaded once by accident - don't know why.

A good question to ask is: Why has Linux not been developed with the ease of use, as has Windows? Go on - try and answer.

I know this'll upset the Linux hardcore but if you genuinely want the picture from Joe Bloggs to help promote Linux as this forum apparently wants - listen up.

I might argue that all the time you can load Windows (spit!) and it works without a problem (as you can) then Linux is the inferior product because you cannot load it with the same ease - I would argue it's beyond most who try it. Aha, yes - it's superior if and when it's loaded but until you get to that stage - Linux is inferior.

I wonder how many folk have been in my position and given up? Do you know how many have turned away without saying anything? Without exception, each that I've spoken too have given up, and that includes a successful computer professional ! To geeky they said. In fact, no one I have spoken too use it. Why? Because it is difficult to even to get to the base line of loading the programme! (Read para one again)

I have had some well intentioned and friendly help from this forum in particular (much appreciated) but the answers never spell out the whole answer - there's always a quirk somewhere. The web has tons of info, but you know, some is dated and no longer applicable and the rest never hit the nail on the head. there's always a quirk that's different. I wonder if 'Bill' would have cornered the market if everyone had to research getting Windows loaded?

I've messed about with computers (Speccys, Z81, QL, and the dreaded Windows) I'm no expert believe me, but I have an idea.

Hats off to the guys who redistribute old laptops with Linux for charity - wish I could do the same!

I really want Linux to work, I'm tired of Windows and all that that entails but there is no acceptable alternative.

Be interesting to see what reaction this brings?

Meanwhile back to trying to get Mint to load on an SSD.

Best wishes.

Ease of use and system security are two opposite ends of the line. The closer you get to ease of use, the further away you get from system security, and vice versa. Flying a paper airplane is much easier than flying a passenger airplane.

Windows is very easy to use, but it is far from being secure. Linux is much more secure, but it is more difficult to use.

bobfunduro wrote:A good question to ask is: Why has Linux not been developed with the ease of use, as has Windows? Go on - try and answer.

The truth is.. you can't have your cake and eat it too.

I have been using Linux as my sole operating system since 2001 - I haven't touched a Microsoft product since then. Back then I wanted sorely to go back to Windows, but I was determined to make Linux work. Today.. I see Windows as nothing more than a child's toy and you couldn't pay me to go back.

Linux is like everything else in life.. you get out of it what you put into it.

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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby Moem » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:43 pm

revian wrote:Ease of use and system security are two opposite ends of the line. The closer you get to ease of use, you get further away you get from system security, and vice versa. Flying a paper airplane is much easier than flying a fighter jet.

Windows is very easy to use, but it is far from being secure. Linux is much more secure, but it is more difficult to use.

I agree with the general idea that there is a tradeoff between ease of use and security. This is most certainly true. However, I (again) need to quote my mother when she had been using Mint for all of one hour:
I'd thought this would be much harder than it turns out to be.

I don't think that Linux is inherently more difficult to use. For 'normal' users, like my mother, it's often harder because it's new to them; but even when taking that into account, it's not actually all that hard.

People are creatures of habit, and anything that's new is more difficult, because it's new. But that wears off and then it becomes habit. I get less support questions from my mother now than I did back when she was using Windows.

Or maybe my mom is just very very smart. :D
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby daveinuk » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:35 pm

bobfunduro wrote:This is going to upset a few but needs saying; make it easier! Make something that folk can plug in and go. No messing about creating this and converting that and putting in some gobbldy gook here and alter there. I'm still struggling after a year, on and off.


As to ' make it easier ' well that's not happening unless you buy a machine with linux pre-installed, good luck finding one used at a reasonable price. New? small fortune in comparison, nearly always made for dev's, so top end great machines. So that leaves the DIY option. You say you've used it a year and are still struggling, but don't say what with. I was still finding my feet after a year, but I didn't know windows inside and out in a year either, and on reflection, MS was harder.

The only plug and go option you have at the minute is chromebooks if you don't want to spend a fortune.

bobfunduro wrote: Why has Linux not been developed with the ease of use


Have to disagree, just installed it on a 5 year old Asus belonging to a 72 year old guy with bad eyes and next to zero 'techy' knowledge. Not heard from him in 3 weeks and only left him with 20 minutes instruction over a cup of tea and two sheets of A4 instructions printed, one for him, and a spare one I gave to his wife for when he loses it, referring to his password and how to use the update manager and instructions not to delete 'things'. When I called on him and asked how come I hadn't had any panic stricken phone calls yet, he just said - well I haven't had any problems to bother you with because it works better now and starts up quick and connects to the internet every time and shuts down really quick as well, and your instructions were easy enough to follow so I haven't needed to bother you -

So for me, that told it's own story.

Maybe it's just your perception of what 'easy' is or expectations of what you want to get from a free and open OS, personally I think it's great value for money ;)

Best of luck, it gets easier with use, but I don't think anyone's really trying to 'drag the crowds in' because people tend to come to Linux because they want to, no one's really trying to 'beat windows' any more, if they ever were, it's a pointless, futile, and unnecessary goal, folks that came here to get away from MS like me, have achieved that and are happy enough, others dual boot as they still have ties with MS, others like mac's, it's whatever floats your boat.

the rest use windows 10, cos' now that's their 1 and only option ;)

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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby jimallyn » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:18 pm

I find Linux quite easy to use. You click on the Menu button in the lower left corner of the screen, choose which program you'd like to run, click it, and away you go. All of my friends and family I have turned on to Linux have found it quite easy to use. One of my brothers, who is a carpenter, not a techie, started using Linux about the same time I did, back in 2002. I think I talked him through the first install he did over the phone, but I don't think he's asked me for support in the 15 years since then. About 2 years ago my older brother asked if I could install Linux on his computer, which I did. I got one support call when he missed a step in installing a printer driver. Shortly after I installed Linux on his computer, I asked if he could pick up a few things for me at Costco, since I didn't have a Costco membership, which he did. A few weeks later I stopped by his house to pick up the stuff he had got for me and pay him for it, and his wife said that they would not accept any payment for the things they had bought for me, because she was so happy that she no longer had to listen to my brother yelling at the computer. A few months later my sister asked me to install Linux on her computer. She had problems with a wifi driver which I quickly solved for her, and has required no support since. A few weeks ago, my brother's wife decided she was tired of yelling at the computer, too, and asked me to put Linux on her computer for her. When I delivered her computer back to her, she mentioned that her daughter's computer broke several years ago and had been sitting in the closet ever since - could I put Linux on that one, too? I used to own a business in which we used both Windows and Linux. One of my non-techie friends worked the front desk for me for a while, his first experience with computers. After a few months of working in my shop, somebody gave me a computer that was filled with Windows viruses. I told my friend that if he wanted it, I would get it working properly for him, and asked if he wanted to have Windows, Linux, or both on his computer. After using both Windows and Linux at my shop for several months, he quickly answered that he wanted only Linux on his computer. And after using that computer for several years, somebody gave me a laptop which I decided to pass on to my friend. Again, I asked him what operating system he wanted on his laptop. Linux only. My son and his wife and 8 year old son (who is autistic) had two laptops that quit working, and I volunteered to look at them for him. One had a bad hard drive, the other a bad motherboard. I took the good hard drive out of the bad motherboard laptop and put it in the other one and installed Linux on it. I have received no support calls whatsoever. Then I was given another old laptop, and put Linux on that and gave it to my son. No support calls on that one either. A friend of mine is a pastor and complete non-techie, currently living in Nicaragua as a Christian missionary. He wanted me to put Linux on his computer when I first met him years ago, because he felt that as a pastor, he had an obligation to set a good example for others by not giving any money to Microsoft, a company he considers to be immoral. Since then, I have put Linux on two or three new laptops for him, and he has found them to be trouble free. His kids have no trouble using them, either. And since he only comes back to the States once a year, he needed something that would be trouble free, and Linux has filled the bill perfectly. The church I attend has several computers that run Linux, computers that are used by non-techie staff, and they have had no problems with Linux, either. I don't think the staff even knows which computer are Windows and which are Linux.

So, my experience with Linux has been that it is easy to use, even for people who aren't techies and have little or no experience using computers. I'm sorry if your experience has been different.
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby bobfunduro » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:05 am

Hi All

Perhaps before this goes to far, I must qualify a few areas of my comment.

Yes - Linux is easy to use ! From the very first paragraph (and para.4/5 and last) the vain throughout is: Linux falls over at the very first step as it is very difficult to install.

As I said - "Loaded once by accident - don't know why." and I like using it and believe me, I seriously want to get rid of Windows on my main laptop. This is not a "knock Linux" bleat. I'm offering a viewpoint that appears to be asked for in the forum title, that I bet no one else has given since I wager no one else who has tried to instal Linux and given up has bothered to give the insight of their experience. So far, I note, that your experiences have been positive but you are not getting the other side of the coin experience. Mmm. there's a thought: how about a specific feedback forum?

Ah - regarding "RTFM". The clue is in my comment "I'm still struggling after a year, on and off." I get to the point that I'm spending so much time researching trying to crack installation problems that I give up with frustration and come back to at a later date. Hence my comments:

"I have had some well intentioned and friendly help from this forum in particular (much appreciated) but the answers never spell out the whole answer - there's always a quirk somewhere. The web has tons of info, but you know, some is dated and no longer applicable and the rest never hit the nail on the head. there's always a quirk that's different."

The other apparently contentious comment I made:

"A good question to ask is: Why has Linux not been developed with the ease of use, as has Windows? Go on - try and answer."
Perhaps I should clarify that - I admit it is unclear. I arrived at that question by virtue of the fact that generally it is easy to load Windows on a formatted disc. More importantly - I've spoken to a number of people who got conned into W10 whilst in previous editions (XP etc.) and it downloaded and worked without their knowledge !! It's that easy!

I hope that clarifies a few points and as I said it will ruffle a few feathers but is given in the spirit under the banner "Promotion"

Regards

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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby Moem » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:14 am

bobfunduro wrote:Linux falls over at the very first step as it is very difficult to install.

That is highly dependant on hardware.
On my own machines, I have found it easy from the start; they're Thinkpads. Even as a complete beginner, coming straight from Windows, I managed my first installation without any help, and with no frustration. I have installed it on other people's hardware since, and sometimes it's smooth sailing and sometimes it's like pulling teeth that have grown in sideways.

I have never been in IT or anything like that, I'm just a user. Since I managed it without help, just by following some instructions that I found (I think it was this article) I cannot agree that it is inherently very difficult.
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby NChewie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:18 am

Point taken bobfunduro :D

...and as I noted above, I am not an "average computer user", as I spent 12 years in the industry (after gaining a degree in Computer Science). My mileage almost certainly does differ.

I do still spend most of my time in the Newbie section, as I don't claim to be up to date with what is "under the hood" in linux these days - my time is taken up with the day job.

I do find that the current evolution of LinuxMint is exceptionally easy to install for new machines and old laptops. (I have installed on both recently). The hardest thing is putting the live ISO together. My last install on a virgin desktop was painless :) it defaulted to UEFI (and the live iso is hybrid), usb boot was already default... all I had to do was accept the defaults.
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby revian » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:14 am

bobfunduro wrote:Hi All

Perhaps before this goes to far, I must qualify a few areas of my comment.

Yes - Linux is easy to use ! From the very first paragraph (and para.4/5 and last) the vain throughout is: Linux falls over at the very first step as it is very difficult to install.

As I said - "Loaded once by accident - don't know why." and I like using it and believe me, I seriously want to get rid of Windows on my main laptop. This is not a "knock Linux" bleat. I'm offering a viewpoint that appears to be asked for in the forum title, that I bet no one else has given since I wager no one else who has tried to instal Linux and given up has bothered to give the insight of their experience. So far, I note, that your experiences have been positive but you are not getting the other side of the coin experience. Mmm. there's a thought: how about a specific feedback forum?

Ah - regarding "RTFM". The clue is in my comment "I'm still struggling after a year, on and off." I get to the point that I'm spending so much time researching trying to crack installation problems that I give up with frustration and come back to at a later date. Hence my comments:

"I have had some well intentioned and friendly help from this forum in particular (much appreciated) but the answers never spell out the whole answer - there's always a quirk somewhere. The web has tons of info, but you know, some is dated and no longer applicable and the rest never hit the nail on the head. there's always a quirk that's different."

The other apparently contentious comment I made:

"A good question to ask is: Why has Linux not been developed with the ease of use, as has Windows? Go on - try and answer."
Perhaps I should clarify that - I admit it is unclear. I arrived at that question by virtue of the fact that generally it is easy to load Windows on a formatted disc. More importantly - I've spoken to a number of people who got conned into W10 whilst in previous editions (XP etc.) and it downloaded and worked without their knowledge !! It's that easy!

I hope that clarifies a few points and as I said it will ruffle a few feathers but is given in the spirit under the banner "Promotion"

Regards

Are you sure it's a Linux distribution you're dealing with? I ask because Linux, especially Mint, is dead easy to install.

1) Connect the Live USB installer to the machine
2) Press a certain key, during boot, to access the boot menu
3) Select Mint in the boot menu and wait for the Mint live environment to load
4) Double-click the Install icon on the desktop in the Live Mint environment
5) Type in some personal information (name, password, location, etc.) and make a few choices
6) Go have a coffee while Mint installs to hard drive

You shouldn't have to spend more than five minutes in front of the machine for a basic install.

If you're "still struggling after a year, on and off", you might consider the possibility that you are the problem, not Linux. It may benefit you to step back and take a look at exactly what you're doing.. step-by-step. If you aren't the problem, then I really want to know which Linux distribution you're working with.. because something is wrong somewhere.
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby daveinuk » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:55 pm

bobfunduro wrote:
As I said - "Loaded once by accident - don't know why." and I like using it and believe me..................................


- it is easy to load Windows on a formatted disc. More importantly - I've spoken to a number of people who got conned into W10 whilst in previous editions (XP etc.) and it downloaded and worked without their knowledge !! It's that easy!




Bob, you've confuddled me, I'm not sure if your idea of 'easy to use' is what some of us are thinking.

If you mean getting it on a machine in the first place, then it's not the sort of thing for 'learners' as they generally require something OOTB.

Linux requires that you go into the BIOS to change the boot order for a start, so how do you ' Load by accident' as you put it ? That requires some serious user input ! You have to know how to burn a DVD/USB for a start ..............
Windows is already installed on every shop bought computer, so MS's forced installations are not magic, simply upgrading (so they say) what's already there. No user input needed. Except to click 'agree'.


It's easy - 'ER' to install Linux, from scratch than windows on a formatted/blank disk, sorry that's just a fact, and it's faster, fact. But still, if you're starting with a blank disk you STILL have to tell the BIOS what to do, so for a NooB how is windows any easier? Not trying to pull your argument apart, just trying to understand where you're coming from.

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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby InkKnife » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:54 pm

My only reaction is that the OP must be incredibly incompetent at tech if installing Mint is a challenge. Mint is every bit as easy to install as Windows and OSX and I say that from personal experience.
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby sphyrth » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:53 pm

The only reason Windows is "easier" is that it's installed by default. Go ahead and make a typical user install Windows first.
Linux (specifically Mint) is only one install away.

I had a family member who was clinging to his XP until his machine finally broke. I put Mint in it (no modifications of themes or anything). A little discussion of where his most used programs are and he's already up and running.

I told him to ask anything if he met a stumbling block. I got only one question "How do you install apps?". Haven't heard any complaints since.
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby bobfunduro » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:20 am

Hi Daveinuk

Very perceptive of you, yes I do have some (not a lot!) of knowledge. Apart from the messing about with Speccy’s and QL’s et al I mentioned in my first post I have also completed a couple of computer courses a couple of years back – hardware & software. You might also note that I’ve asked on this forum for info on Linux courses in Belgium or SE England in an effort to crack the Linux nut and get to the Kernal!

Yes – as I alluded to more than once from the very first paragraph of my OP and para.4/5 and last para - the vain throughout is: "Linux falls over at the very first step as it is very difficult to install!” Once installed it’s great – does all I need and I want to progress with it.

I appreciate that statistics can be interpreted to which ever viewpoint you hold and an interesting fact comes from your very own Linux Mint Forum! Take a look at the Index. Under the “Main Edition and Support”
Installation & Boot 21347 posts.
Newbie Questions 52332 posts

73k posts. That’s more than the rest of topics in that section. Read into that what you will. How many gave up?

Those posts saying how easy it is only comes from the successful users. Appreciation and acknowledgement needs to be given to the unsuccessful, which as I’ve said, you probably never hear from to which the stats above ‘might’ bear witness?

Well – I’ve spent enough of my time endeavoring to give some constructive feedback, I’m off to try and get Mint loaded to a SSD – again – again – again……………….

Best wishes.

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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby srq2625 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:18 am

bobfunduro wrote:"Linux falls over at the very first step as it is very difficult to install!” Once installed it’s great – does all I need and I want to progress with it.

In the hope that your post is not troll-bait, consider:
  • It appears you are comparing apples to oranges; comparing the problems/issues encountered while attempting to install Linux to the "ease of use" of an already installed instance of Windows.
  • The process required to install Linux Mint has already been outlined above, no need to repeat.
  • I used to install Windows ... a lot. I was one of those that was excited about all the beta releases of Windows 7. Everytime a new beta was released, I was right there downloading and intstalling it. I used Win7 for a large number of years, with multiple re-installs. Like many here, I know something of the process. From start to "It's ready!" often would take the better part of 12 to 24 hours of actual "in front of the keyboard" time. The following is only part of the process I used:
    1. Burn to DVD. At the time, burning to USB device wasn't an option. I don't think it is an option even now.
    2. Boot the computer to the DVD.
    3. Go through the initial install process. Depending on hardware, this takes ~30 minutes. Working with a bare/unformatted drive, this requires creating the installation partition. OK, Windows makes this easier as Linux likes to have a minimum of two partitions (swap and '/') and three is even better. Oh, and with Windows, I THINK the install process will create the partition table if required.
    4. Next is device drivers. I've experienced the need to install drivers for MBO components (USB 3, NIC, Sound, HDD). Drivers for printers and scanners (Yes, Linux needs these as well). Drivers for video (ditto, Linux).
    5. Now, update the O/S. Yes, both Windows and LM require that you update once the installation is complete. I've seen Windows updates take more than 3 hours and involve the rebooting of the computer not just once, but three times. Once that's done, you need to run the Windows Update process repeatedly untill it returns with "no updates available." As part of an installation, this NEVER happens the first time.
    6. Oh, and don't forget to install all the applications intended to protect your computer from mal-ware, viruses, trojan-horse attacks, ransome-ware attacks, etc.
    7. For each mal-ware solution you installed, update the definition files, etc.
    8. If Windows update didn't include updates for your drivers, need to find the vendor's web-site and download the newest drivers and install them; usually one web-site per driver.
    9. Install your applications - one install per application. Then update the "fresh" application(s).
    10. Does your mal-ware solution require a baseline scan? Better get that done too.
  • Once the installation is complete, there's the issue of maintenance and updates, but that's outside the scope of the point I'm attempting to make here.

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Moem
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby Moem » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:23 am

Thank you Bob, but I don't consider 'Make it easier! It's too hard!' to be constructive feedback. Not without at least one workable suggestion on how this might be achieved.
Don't you think that if the developers had found a fool proof way to 'make something that folk can plug in and go', on any and all hardware in the world, they would have done so long ago?

Apparently you aren't interested in discussion, or you would have addressed my arguments. So be it.
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ColdBootII
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Re: A view from Joe Bloggs.

Postby ColdBootII » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:01 am

Moem wrote:Don't you think that if the developers had found a fool proof way to 'make something that folk can plug in and go', on any and all hardware in the world, they would have done so long ago?

Apparently you aren't interested in discussion, or you would have addressed my arguments. So be it.


Yes, even the Windows makers could not automate the much-needed-automatic-boot-order switch so, in the past 10 years, I've been installing and reinstalling Windows from XP to 7 for some of my neighbors, because they are not interested in learning anything even that simple. They moan every time: "it is too complicated!" - which is always easy and what they know well. :mrgreen:

Of course there are many posts about installation and boot because they are recurring ones and because any number of wrong things is done by the users who attempting what they do not know, garble in any impossible way. Still, more interesting and worst of all, is that some such people, with very little knowledge, consider their ignorance a firm base for passing opinions.


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