Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

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Veerstryngh Thynner
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Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Veerstryngh Thynner » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:11 am

Hello all,

First of all: my regular Lenovo laptop runs KDE Mint 18 "Sarah". I need to free up some hard disk space, so I tried CLI first:

sudo apt-get clean

sudo apt-get autoclean

sudo apt-get autoremove


removed about 6 kB.

After some online searching, I have been informed that removing old kernels may also be an option:

http://www.howtogeek.com/185173/4-ways- ... -on-linux/

I had a look at what Synaptic lists, in this respect. But the system core is something I'd rather not touch. Not without thorough advice on what packages to remove, anyway, since this is brand-new territory for me. So I consulted Konsole once more with

dpkg --get-selections | grep linux-image

Here is the read-out:

Code: Select all

~ $ dpkg --get-selections | grep linux-image
linux-image-4.4.0-21-generic                    install
linux-image-4.4.0-36-generic                    install
linux-image-4.4.0-38-generic                    install
linux-image-extra-4.4.0-21-generic              install
linux-image-extra-4.4.0-36-generic              install
linux-image-extra-4.4.0-38-generic              install
~ $ sudo apt-get autoclean
Incidentally,

sudo apt-get autoclean

appeared automatically, to my surprise. Still, I'd appreciate a second opinion as to whether these packages can indeed safely be removed.

I also called up Bleachbit (v.1.10), for either a routine clean or, possibly, a root (sudo) clean. In the latter case, I'm not sure what the end-effect of some options will be.

- All boxes in the APT section (autoclean, autoremove, clean, package lists) are currently ticked. My impression now is that "clean" and "package lists" will remove APT in its entirety. If indeed true, I have no idea as to whether that's wise or not. Therefore, I could use some advice in that matter as well.

- Furthermore, I'm a bit puzzled about what Bleachbit's "vacuum" function actually does. Bleachbit's "vacuum" boxes with respect to Thunderbird, Firefox and Opera are currently unticked. Instructions say that "vacuum" cleans up without data being affected - yet I'm still unsure as to whether it can be applied safely, in the instances aforementioned. I hate to see something bad happening, since these applications are used daily.

Thank you very much in advance for any assistance given.

Veerstryngh Thynner

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Pjotr » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:42 am

Don't use the software wrecking ball BleachBit, because it may damage your system beyond repair.

BleachBit is superfluous at best, and destructive at its worst. It's a "tool" that primarily caters to the psychological needs of new Linux users who come fresh from Windows, and mistakenly assume that certain Windows maintenance is needed on Linux as well.

In short: it's a newbie trap. Don't fall for it.

For removing old kernels, simply use Mints very own built-in kernel tool:
Update Manager - panel: View - Linux kernels.

More cleaning needs? This is how to clean Mint safely:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinuxtipsproject/4
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Veerstryngh Thynner
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Veerstryngh Thynner » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:43 am

Thanks very much for your prompt reaction, Pjotr

In the meanwhile, what I have been hearing about Bleachbit is rather contradictory, to be honest. The person who originally introduced me to Linux insists on regular cleaning with Bleachbit. Others (like your good self for instance) regard Bleachbit as a wrecking ball, apparently. So I'm not really sure what to make of this.

But I did follow your pointers - and here is a screenshot of the result:
Desktop 1_018.jpg
Can you possibly advise me on which kernel(s) to remove? Or should that be further investigated with Synaptic?

I find that a bit scary, to be honest, since I have yet to learn what distinguishes old kernels from active ones - so I'd easily pick the wrong one, I figure...

Veerstryngh Thynner

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Moem » Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:58 am

You can choose which kernel to load during bootup. Remember which one you load, and use it for a week or so; if all seems well, it's safe to uninstall all others except for the one you used right before this one. That way, you'll always have a spare that works, but never a ton of old kernels sitting around.
That's how I do this, anyway.

As for BleachBit: it's possible to use it for years without any problems. It's also possible to make a mistake in the configuration and spectacularly mess up your system. Not worth it, in my eyes, since it doesn't really do anything that can't be done in other ways. It's unnecessary, and it's too prone to error.
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If your issue is solved, kindly indicate that by editing the first post in the topic, and adding [SOLVED] to the title. Thanks!

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Cosmo. » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:03 am

If you need more space, you have to find out at first, where the space is occupied. There is the tool baobab (I don't know, if it is available for KDE), which can do this.

Regarding BleachBit: If you want to destroy your system or want to loose some user data: Use it. But you could reformat your drive also without it.
Vacuum is a fine example: You find more info about that here or - excerpted by me - here.

Regarding the kernels: I doubt, that this will make the big difference in saved space for you. You have 3 kernel installed: -21 (the original), -36 and -38 (currently in use). You should leave the originally installed kernel, that means, that you can only savley remove -36. As Pjotr wrote, use the Linux kernel tool for that, but don't expect, that this will make the big difference on your drive.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Flemur » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:44 am

Each kernel uses about 250M of disk space. Make sure the one you keep is reliable (use it for a while) before deleting the others.

Besides baobab, which is pretty good and easy to use, you can find disk usage like this:

Code: Select all

sudo du / | sort -n
That'll list all the directories under "/" and sort them by size so the large directories are last in the output, e.g.:

Code: Select all

...
1483412	/var/cache/apt
1603680	/var/cache
1943124	/var
2607128	/usr/lib
3907404	/usr
71964736	/
If you then want to look at, say, /var, do

Code: Select all

sudo du /var | sort -n
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by trytip » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:59 am

have been using BleachBit since 2012 with no issues and use it mainly for locale cleaning after installing software (you'd be surprised how much root space extra localizations take), but it does require a learning curve and it CAN blow up the planet if not used properly. so learn it's options first and be prepared to say AAAHHHH my linux won't boot

that said, use the update manager to REMOVE old kernels, then in synaptic you will have residual data, which can be safely removed from there
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Hoser Rob » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:24 am

Veerstryngh Thynner wrote:...The person who originally introduced me to Linux insists on regular cleaning with Bleachbit.
That person isn't knowlegdgeable.
Others (like your good self for instance) regard Bleachbit as a wrecking ball, apparently.
That person IS knowledgeable.

I don't even know of any really knowledgable Windows users who'll use things similar to BB like registry cleaners. They're not trustworthy. ANd in Linux they don't even make much sense.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Schultz » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:39 am

Veerstryngh Thynner wrote:
I find that a bit scary, to be honest, since I have yet to learn what distinguishes old kernels from active ones - so I'd easily pick the wrong one, I figure...
Look at your screenshot; at the top you'll see it says you are currently using the 4.4.0-38 kernel. Mint will always boot into the newest kernel. Now you should really install the latest kernel 4.4.0-45, because there was a fix for a bug called "Dirty Cow" (see here). As others have said, don't delete the older kernels until you have used the newest one for a few days to make sure it works for you.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by trytip » Sun Nov 06, 2016 12:07 pm

Hoser Rob wrote:
Veerstryngh Thynner wrote:...The person who originally introduced me to Linux insists on regular cleaning with Bleachbit.
That person isn't knowlegdgeable.
Others (like your good self for instance) regard Bleachbit as a wrecking ball, apparently.
That person IS knowledgeable.
I don't even know of any really knowledgable Windows users who'll use things similar to BB like registry cleaners. They're not trustworthy. ANd in Linux they don't even make much sense.
i use bleachbit, so i'm not knowlegdgeable? i have never broke my system with bleachbit but i did break it by using updates. TRUST my friend is not the word you're looking for here. i trust the updates but as we see lately, many users have borked desktops because of the latest nvidia update.
leave bleachbit alone, it hasn't done anything to you. if you break your system by using bleachbit it's not the bleachbit's fault but yours. of course if you don't know how to use it that's a different story altogether.

ps: i would never clean kernels with bleachbit, it doesn't even have that option
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by MartyMint » Mon Nov 07, 2016 8:50 pm

Bleachbit = A Windows solution to a nonexistent Linux problem.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by atari800 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 8:40 am

trytip wrote: i use bleachbit, so i'm not knowlegdgeable? i have never broke my system with bleachbit but i did break it by using updates. TRUST my friend is not the word you're looking for here. i trust the updates but as we see lately, many users have borked desktops because of the latest nvidia update.
leave bleachbit alone, it hasn't done anything to you. if you break your system by using bleachbit it's not the bleachbit's fault but yours. of course if you don't know how to use it that's a different story altogether.

ps: i would never clean kernels with bleachbit, it doesn't even have that option
This site is so ANTI-BLEACHBIT its incredible, dont expect too much help, only references to "instances of failures", not trends.
There are "instances" of system updates causing issues doing damage were people cant login or the desktop environment is damaged.
*"you shouldnt choose level 4&5 in updates" will never equate to "If bleachbit gives you a warning on an option, dont choose it" here.
I offered up a laptop for sacrifice to prove BB was destructive and that wasnt even taken up.
*Its a short read but got locked, with a last comment by KarlChen (to whom I respect)

If you like bleachbit to automate cleaning up logs, delete history, execute "apt autoremove", or whatever.....GREAT
If you are technically savvy in Linux and want to do this by hand....great
If you make a script to execute your commands that clean up your environment - you might be re-inventing a BleachBit wheel


There are 1000's of links talking bad about bad situations with [BleachBit/System Updates] but there are millions of successes that never get reported.


Good Luck
I hope everyone is doing well - take care
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Pjotr » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:11 am

MartyMint wrote:Bleachbit = A Windows solution to a nonexistent Linux problem.
Change the first bit into "dangerous Windows solution" and I think that summons it up neatly. :lol:

@atari800: the guy's name isn't KarlChen, but karlchen (pronounce: karlshen, meaning literally: "little Karl"). He's German, not Chinese. Klare Sache und damit hopp. :mrgreen:
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by atari800 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 9:41 pm

I hope he forgives me.
"Url, V arire fnvq V jnf cresrpg - ohg V erfcrpg guvf qhqr :wink: "
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by all41 » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:00 pm

This site is so ANTI-BLEACHBIT its incredible
Excuse me! --the experienced users of this site are expounding their experiences and recommendations.
Look--most here just choose to do these things manually.
I choose to not allow scripts to auto-delete files on my systems.
On the other hand such scans can be useful as reminders

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by atari800 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:06 pm

all41 wrote:Excuse me! --the experienced users of this site are expounding their experiences and recommendations.
Look--most here just choose to do these things manually.
I choose to not allow scripts to auto-delete files on my systems.
On the other hand such scans can be useful as reminders
You are excused.
People with 1000+ comments (experienced user) do expound their experiences and recommendations but this site is not BLEACHBIT friendly

Again to prove:
"The person who originally introduced me to Linux insists on regular cleaning with Bleachbit.
That person isn't knowlegdgeable."
"Others (like your good self for instance) regard Bleachbit as a wrecking ball, apparently.
That person IS knowledgeable."

The nail in the coffin for Bleachbit would be for someone to post something like:
"To prove Bleachbit is catastrophic, do the following at your own expense:
Click on these options and run BB twice, it will never finish and you cannot boot"

But no one can, they point to incidents (not trends) and take that as final.
*It would be like backing up your car and bumping into another car and vowing never to drive again and stating all vehicles are EVIL and showing pictures of your accident
**not that extreme but an example
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by all41 » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:59 pm

atari800 wrote:
all41 wrote:Excuse me! --the experienced users of this site are expounding their experiences and recommendations.
Look--most here just choose to do these things manually.
I choose to not allow scripts to auto-delete files on my systems.
On the other hand such scans can be useful as reminders
You are excused.
People with 1000+ comments (experienced user) do expound their experiences and recommendations but this site is not BLEACHBIT friendly

Again to prove:
"The person who originally introduced me to Linux insists on regular cleaning with Bleachbit.
That person isn't knowlegdgeable."
"Others (like your good self for instance) regard Bleachbit as a wrecking ball, apparently.
That person IS knowledgeable."

The nail in the coffin for Bleachbit would be for someone to post something like:
"To prove Bleachbit is catastrophic, do the following at your own expense:
Click on these options and run BB twice, it will never finish and you cannot boot"

But no one can, they point to incidents (not trends) and take that as final.
*It would be like backing up your car and bumping into another car and vowing never to drive again and stating all vehicles are EVIL and showing pictures of your accident
**not that extreme but an example
Another prime example of a stuck phonograph record.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by trytip » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:25 am

Another prime example of a stuck phonograph record.
i don't get it
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Pjotr » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:37 am

Meet the latest victim of that horrible piece of semi-malware called BleachBit:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=233404&p=1238664#p1238596
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Cosmo. » Thu Nov 10, 2016 10:41 am

atari800 wrote:This site is so ANTI-BLEACHBIT its incredible, dont expect too much help
Wrong (as already in the past). This site is against advices, which are known as being dangerous for the systems of questioners.
Also wrong: Users can expect very much help here, but in the sense to solve problems, not create new problems.

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