Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

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majpooper
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by majpooper » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:44 pm

Pjotr wrote:Meet the latest victim of that horrible piece of semi-malware called BleachBit:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=233404&p=1238664#p1238596
I respect the moderators and experts on the site immensely - they have been a great source of help and advice but this anti- Bleachbit seems like an over reaction.

The OP that had the issue referred to above wrote the following; " Last week I run bleachbit ( as root ) and check all the box" The OP goes on to say they are new to Linux and do not know what they are doing. As many folks have pointed out there are many dangerous things that noobs and folks who don't know what they are doing can do in Linux including commands and Updates. So let's keep Bleachbit in perspective. Yes it can be dangerous if you don't know what you are doing and yes in can be a helpful and convenient tool if you do.
majpooper wrote:Folks on this forum are quite opinionated concerning Bleachbit. There has been some, how shall I say it, strong opinions back and forth. By and large the most experienced and knowledgeable folks advise against it. Having said that I have had zero issues with it and use it occasionally. However I never use the wipe option which seems to have caused some real problems. Also I follow some guidelines I found way back when during my research for a OS "cleaner"

Anyway here are the guidelines, they are kind of general and depends exactly what apps and browsers you use. Again I use these every so often and have had no issues whatever - wish I could give credit where credit is due but I cannot recall now exactly where these came from but definitely a trusted source.

1.) APT - Don't check anything here. I prefer to use "sudo apt-get autoclean" and "sudo apt-get autoremove" so I can observe what's going on inside the Terminal when I run these commands.

2.) Bash - Check this to clear your history of Terminal commands.

3.) Chromium - Check everything here except passwords.

4.) Deep Scan - Don't check anything here.

5.) Firefox - Check everything here except crash reports and passwords.

6.) Flash - Check everything here.

7.) Libre Office - Check everything here.

8.) System - Don't check anything here when running as User; instead, I enable some of these when running as Administrator; see below***

9.) VLC Media Player - Check everything here.

10.) X11 Debug Logs - Don't check anything here.

***Running Bleachbit as Administrator:

1.) APT - Again, do not check anything here.

2.) Deep Scan - Again, do not check anything here.

3.) System - Here I'm very conservative. I only check broken desktop files, clipboard, recent documents list, temporary files, and trash. Leave everything else unchecked.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by kyphi » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:58 pm

The number of comments made by members of this forum is not necessarily related to their level of experience nor an assumption of competence. It merely indicates participation in this forum.

There is nothing "wrong" with using a tool such as Bleachbit (or Ubuntu Tweak) as long as you first take the time to learn how to use that tool and apply it within its specified guidelines.
Be aware that in Linux, there are always multiple ways to achieve a desired goal, so explore the suggested alternatives.

"Software wrecking ball" reads like an overly emotional title often repeated on this forum by a few contributors.
It is not an objective expression in my opinion but a personal view - one not shared by all.
It does not render this forum as specific-programme-hostile.

You will also find emotionally biased judgements being voiced about programmes such as Brasero.

The trouble with being human is that, rightly or wrongly, we all have opinions and have the right to express these as well as, in return, to tolerate those opinions when they differ from our own.

Of course any of the contributors to this forum will offer assistance commensurate with their ability when required.
All anyone has to do is ask.
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by atari800 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:09 am

It is anti-bleachbit
Here is the response
Pjotr wrote:Meet the latest victim of that horrible piece of semi-malware called BleachBit:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=233404&p=1238664#p1238596

BleachBit is a nasty piece of semi-malware.... You've probably cancelled the operation that it was busy doing, which apparently leaves an enormous useless file somewhere. Find it and delete it.

Don't ever use that software wrecking ball again. It's superfluous at best, and may seriously damage your system:
Again an instance, not a trend
Again didnt ask what they choose in bleachbit just the mention of bleach gave the "cookie cutter" response
*At least WharfRat made attempt to locate problem

Now what if all of the issues this people going to MInt 18 were given the same type of response:
"Mint 18 is a nasty piece of semi-malware.... You've probably cancelled the operation that it was busy doing, which apparently leaves an enormous useless file somewhere. Find it and delete it.
Don't ever use that software wrecking ball again. It's superfluous at best, and may seriously damage your system:"
Cosmo. wrote:Wrong (as already in the past). This site is against advices, which are known as being dangerous for the systems of questioners.
Also wrong: Users can expect very much help here, but in the sense to solve problems, not create new problems.
I still have a laptop and a video camera, I am up for taking any BleachBit combination to zap a functional Laptop
...to prove your point on how wrong I am AND boost that ego of yours.
I figure the operation will take an hour tops, but I can fast forward the speed of the video and stop at key moments of BleachBit killing the laptop

If you can do this, we will have undisputed proof which I will post...........hard evidence
or don't and just keep finding nifty ways of describing BleachBit to people
...wrecking ball
...semi malware



NOTE:
I am not affiliated with BleachBit.
People on this site are very knowledgeable
I am pointing out a fact that this site is ANTI-BLEACHBIT
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by atari800 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:10 am

kyphi wrote:The number of comments made by members of this forum is not necessarily related to their level of experience nor an assumption of competence. It merely indicates participation in this forum.........
Nice comment
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Pjotr » Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:58 am

atari800 wrote:I am not affiliated with BleachBit.
Well, you definitely could have fooled me. :lol:
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Cosmo. » Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:57 am

atari800 wrote:
Cosmo. wrote:Wrong (as already in the past). This site is against advices, which are known as being dangerous for the systems of questioners.
Also wrong: Users can expect very much help here, but in the sense to solve problems, not create new problems.
I still have a laptop and a video camera, I am up for taking any BleachBit combination to zap a functional Laptop
...to prove your point on how wrong I am AND boost that ego of yours.
I don't need a video for my ego and you do not have to bother about it.

But I wonder why you quote my second sentence without saying (probably putting it in question) anything about it.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by atari800 » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:39 am

So you wont help prove that bleachbit is bad with an example?
You have no data to lose, you have no applications to be affected, it wont affect your daily routine other than helping me use BleachBit to damage a system you dont own and have no stake in?
I mean this would prove 100% that it can wipe out a system

If I see proof, I will be on the Anti-Bleachbit band wagon so fast...
You will have a link to youtube or where ever you want me to place it that all can see

Saying something is bad and pointing to instances, not trends, doesnt seem to prove much other than just complaining.
Perhaps Clementine is a Wrecking Ball too?
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=219073&p=1147904&h ... g#p1147904
The UPDATE button is a Wrecking Ball it seems
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=233306


Now I can think of a way, maybe this will prime the pump:
If I start a large torrent download maybe many of them and while it is delivering me the massive files, I run wipedisk concurrently.
It would be like burning a candle at both ends -- I'd run out of space and the system should freeze
If BleachBit couldnt recover from this - we'd have proof BleachBit caused a problem
Cosmo. wrote:But I wonder why you quote my second sentence without saying (probably putting it in question) anything about it.
Let's say "I don't need to answer and you don't have to bother about it" :wink:
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Pjotr » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:40 pm

atari800 wrote:So you wont help prove that bleachbit is bad with an example?
I just did, mate. Let's stop this senseless repetition, shall we?

When I examine the messages you've posted on this forum so far, it appears that they are mainly about endorsing dangerous or destructive ways of dealing with Linux Mint.

BleachBit posts top the list by far, but there's also a lot to do about enabling automatic updates and even about disabling the bloody password. You're *always* on the wrong side of the fence. Invariably.

Do you have a particular wish to cause problems for beginners with Linux? Just asking.
Last edited by Pjotr on Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Cosmo. » Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

atari800 wrote:So you wont help prove that bleachbit is bad with an example?
I have shown already in the past, that BB gives problems. And you know it. You only behave, as if you do not know. I do not belong to the people, how have to cut a second time into their skin to confirm, that this hurts.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by atari800 » Sun Nov 13, 2016 9:47 pm

Pjotr wrote:Do you have a particular wish to cause problems for beginners with Linux? Just asking.
No I do not, on the contrary I'd like to prove to them it is destructive with your help.


You make it out to be a bomb.
Your never going to hear someone come in and say "Hey, Just letting you know UPDATE BUTTON worked without a problem", "Just letting you know I installed Clementine successfully, that is all", "I ran BleachBit and no problems occurred"
You will see people coming in with problems.

But the point is this is an anti-bleachbit site
Cosmo. wrote:I have shown already in the past, that BB gives problems
Is this the FireFox vacuum incident?
Cosmo. wrote: I do not belong to the people, how have to cut a second time into their skin to confirm, that this hurts
So if you fell of of a bicycle, you would never ride a bicycle and use that to confirm a bicycle is dangerous?


Anyways....
Hey winter holiday season is coming up fast. I hope everyone has a great time with family and friends
Happy holidays and Cheers
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Cosmo. » Mon Nov 14, 2016 6:30 am

atari800 wrote:
Cosmo. wrote: I do not belong to the people, how have to cut a second time into their skin to confirm, that this hurts
So if you fell of of a bicycle, you would never ride a bicycle and use that to confirm a bicycle is dangerous?
If I would fell from a bicycle I would think(!) about what I did wrong; surely with a far more differentiated result. I would not(!) come to the strange conclusion, that riding a bicycle is the same as cutting into my skin. I would not(!) bother about people, who mix a bicycle with a knife.

Or more current: If my grandchildren learn to walk on their own feet, I would not try to forbid that; I only would watch, that they do not hurt the head, when they fall down. If the same children would start to play with a knife, I would take the knife away. I(!) do distinguish between those things. If I would not, I would be a bad grandfather.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by atari800 » Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:55 am

So you equate bleachbit to a knife and yet don't admit you're anti-bleachbit?
I want your help you prove it is bad yet you wont participate
Task performed on a machine that does not affect your day-to-day work but you refuse to contribute other than mentioning you had a FireFox vacuum action that might have caused an issue or pointing to space issues from others (this would be a great start)

Amazing....you wont even take part in proving you are right?

This draws a pretty clear picture, no?
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Moem » Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:05 am

atari800 wrote:So you equate bleachbit to a knife and yet don't admit you're anti-bleachbit?
Knives are good tools. You need to know how to use them, otherwise they can be dangerous. Pretty good analogy, I think. Or are you anti-knives? :wink:
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Cosmo. » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:09 am

atari800 wrote:Amazing....you wont even take part in proving you are right?

This draws a pretty clear picture, no?
I did prove it already. Yes, this gives a clear picture.
It was not about vacuum. Either you did read wrong, you understood wrong or you remember wrong. It was about an atomized profile.

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Pjotr » Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:29 am

Anyhow, all analogies have their limitations. Because ultimately, no one thing is quite like another thing.

So let's stick to the facts.

1. BleachBit, unless used very carefully, can be disastrous for your system. Which has been proven, among others by Cosmo. I utterly fail to see how anyone with positive intentions, could ever deny this.

2. BleachBit is superfluous, because nearly all it does, can also be done with other means. Means that are much safer, because they don't carry the risk described above. Those safer means will also give you a system with virtually no pollution.

Conclusion: better stay away from BleachBit.

Quod erat demonstrandum.
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by chrisuk » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:13 pm

Pjotr wrote:Anyhow, all analogies have their limitations. Because ultimately, no one thing is quite like another thing.

So let's stick to the facts.

1. BleachBit, unless used very carefully, can be disastrous for your system. Which has been proven, among others by Cosmo. I utterly fail to see how anyone with positive intentions, could ever deny this.

2. BleachBit is superfluous, because nearly all it does, can also be done with other means. Means that are much safer, because they don't carry the risk described above. Those safer means will also give you a system with virtually no pollution.

Conclusion: better stay away from BleachBit.

Quod erat demonstrandum.
Just for fun ;)

1. The command line (bash/shell/terminal/whatever), unless used very carefully, can be disastrous for your system. Which has been proven, by many users. I utterly fail to see how anyone with positive intentions, could ever deny this.

2. The command line (bash/shell/terminal/whatever) is superfluous, because nearly all it does, can also be done with a GUI app. Means that are much safer, because they don't carry the risk described above. Those safer means will also give you a system with virtually no pollution.

Conclusion: better stay away from The command line (bash/shell/terminal/whatever).

My point being? Well, it's simple - when users come to this forum and ask about dangerous commands, especially a certain two letter one, they aren't told "Stay away from the command line". They are told "be careful, and make sure you understand what you are doing... and be extra careful with sudo". So why is it so different when it comes to Bleachbit? Why not advise reading manuals and not using sudo? Why not advise the user of the unsafe options?

That's why I (and maybe a few others) have a problem with the anti-Bleachbit rhetoric... it's inconsistent, and I'd guess confusing for a keen new Linux user
Chris

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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Pjotr » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:30 pm

chrisuk wrote:Just for fun ;)
.... and that's all it is.

No more analogies, please.... You simply can't compare a tool of the enormous universal usefulness and versatility like the terminal, to a dedicated limited tool like BleachBit. It proves my point: analogies ultimately just confuse the issue.

I suggest you re-read my previous message, concerning the facts about BleachBit.
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Re: Old kernels & Bleachbit cleaning operations

Post by Moem » Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:44 pm

Right. Both sides have stated their case, nothing left to say. Closing this up.
Join us at the next installment of the Bleachbit: Good Or Bad? show! :lol:
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