LTS 4.9 Kernel

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Jon Spoonamore
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LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Jon Spoonamore »

I am wondering why the LTS 4.9 Kernel is not included in the Kernel's selection list?

As far as I know... 4.4 and 4.9 are the latest LTS Kernels. What is the rhyme or reason that 4.4 is the only LTS option? What does 4.8 and 4.10 bring to the table over 4.9????

For me, I would like to only deal with LTS Kernels!!!!

Namf_Mint
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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Namf_Mint »

I don't have an answer, though I'd like to hear one. I can tell you that there are ways of installing any version of the kernel on Mint; a websearch should show how (and I recall that Reddit had some stuff on this). However, I wouldn't recommend installing anything in such a manual, somewhat hacky way. Not unless you really need to and/or know what you are doing (or just really really want to . .).

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Pjotr
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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Pjotr »

Why do you want a newer kernel at all? You don't mention any current problems, so it makes no sense if all is working well now. :shock:

Finally, note that upstream LTS (Torvald's kernel team) doesn't necessarily equal downstream LTS (Ubuntu / Mint).
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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by pdc_2 »


Cosmo.
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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Cosmo. »

Wherefrom do you take the impression, that 4.9 is a LTS kernel? It is not even mentioned here.

Note also, that upstream LTS mean 2 years support, not 5 years, so not quite for the life time of Mint 17.x and far shorter than the life time of Mint 18.x.

ColdBoot

Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by ColdBoot »

Cosmo. wrote:Wherefrom do you take the impression, that 4.9 is a LTS kernel? It is not even mentioned here.

Note also, that upstream LTS mean 2 years support, not 5 years, so not quite for the life time of Mint 17.x and far shorter than the life time of Mint 18.x.
Just because it is not listed in wiki pages doesn't mean it isn't a long term because it appears to be so. However, Ubuntu team has a final say on which version is going to be used.

Cosmo.
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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Cosmo. »

ColdBoot wrote:... doesn't mean it isn't a long term because it appears to be so.
"Appears so" is a revealing wording. For the Ubuntu based Mint versions the term LTS is mostly understood as LTS for the life cycle of the version of the distro. And as I already pointed out, regarding Mint 18.x kernel 4.9 does not even appear to get as long supported as the distro itself.

ColdBoot

Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by ColdBoot »

Cosmo. wrote: "Appears so" is a revealing wording. For the Ubuntu based Mint versions the term LTS is mostly understood as LTS for the life cycle of the version of the distro. And as I already pointed out, regarding Mint 18.x kernel 4.9 does not even appear to get as long supported as the distro itself.
Well, that's just a way to rephrase what I said :D
Ubuntu team has a final say on which version is going to be used.
which doesn't mean 4.9 is not a LTS kernel. It is.

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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Cosmo. »

ColdBoot wrote:
Ubuntu team has a final say on which version is going to be used.
What clearly means, that this not an Ubuntu-LTS kernel at this time.
ColdBoot wrote:which doesn't mean 4.9 is not a LTS kernel. It is.
It is not. :!: Not until this is officially named as such. I leave it intentionally open, to use a crystal ball to predict the future. A prediction does not make something LTS.

Reading the starting post the OP wants only to deal with LTS kernels. If (s)he is on Mint 18.x (qualifies guess) there is no hint at now, that this kernel is or ever will be LTS in the sense of Mint LTS. From the current information the life time of kernel 4.9 will be 27 months less.

ColdBoot

Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by ColdBoot »

Cosmo. wrote:
ColdBoot wrote:
Ubuntu team has a final say on which version is going to be used.
What clearly means, that this not an Ubuntu-LTS kernel at this time.
My point exactly, not Ubuntu-LTS but LTS per se... meaning, if OP has any use for it at this time, he'll have to download it, compile it, and apply all the patches till its EOL in 2019. Not worth the hustle unless there's some real need for it. BTW, once I've compiled a 3.7 on Debian Sarge for an older machine that couldn't detect a bluetooth dongle OOTB. It took 2,5 hours to complete... :mrgreen:

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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Hoser Rob »

Jon Spoonamore wrote:... I would like to only deal with LTS Kernels!!!!
Me too. But unless you install LMDE, Mint is based on Ubuntu. ANd as of Ubuntu 14.04, Ubuntu LTS releases do not use LTS kernels. Not even the server edition ... why any sysadmin would install a Linux server that doesn't use an LTS kernel is quite beyond me ...

I suppose Ubuntu was trying to strike a balance between stability and being able to handle newer hardware but I don't think they've done a very good job. Mint changed their update policy because if this, and that's mostly why I installed Mint 17.

So don't blame Mint for this. ANd remember that installing a kernel that's newer than the one that shipped with your release is every bit as likely to break something as to fix it.

Jon Spoonamore
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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Jon Spoonamore »

This the official listing of LTS Kernels: https://www.kernel.org/category/releases.html

I go by this and nothing else when it comes to Kernel Information. Notice, 4.4 EOL is next year (2018). At least 4.9's EOL is 2019.

I just came back to Mint after 8+ months on Manjaro Mate (I started using Mint back on version 2.2). I started my Linux life on Slackware. Ubuntu 16.04 was the main reason that pushed me away from Mint. The only reason I am back is because of a serious OpenSSL bug in a critical piece of software I rely on. I left Mint because of Mint 18 and it's many issues. 18.1 is definitely a lot better. But, Manjaro still kicks it's butt in optimization.

In Manjaro.... All Kernels are available for installation. 4.9 actually ran better on my hardware. I switched Kernels because I wanted to make sure 4.9 would run without problems.

I think I will start testing Mint Debian again. It seems that as of late, the Mint Team seems to be putting more resources into the Debian Edition. Even though the standard Mint 18.1 runs better than 18, anything based on Ubuntu 16.04 seems to suffer from optimization issues. I'm getting tired of Ubuntu. I like what Mint did to make Ubuntu awesome back in the day.... But with distros like Manjaro doing the same for Arch, it's hard not to want better performance out of your hardware.

ColdBoot

Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by ColdBoot »

^FWIT, I think they(Ubuntu team) included 4.8 and 4.10 kernels at this time because they somehow complement the main 4.4 better than 4.9 would. That doesn't mean we will not see it available in the near future although that too may not happen.

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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Cosmo. »

We had the discussion about kernel 4.10 only 1 day ago.

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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by JeremyB »

Jon Spoonamore, the kernel.org site does not include info for distribution kernels such as the Ubuntu kernels used by LM 17 and LM 18. Ubuntu has it's own team to keep their LTS kernels up to date with security patches, the current Ubuntu LTS kernels are 3.13 and 4.4. You can always identify an Ubuntu kernel with uname -a as it will say Ubuntu and for the Ubuntu LTS it will be 3.13.0-? or 4.4.0-? followed by other info. My current Ubuntu 16.04 kernel shows Linux jeremy-Lenovo-G710 4.4.0-75-generic #96-Ubuntu SMP Thu Apr 20 09:56:33 UTC 2017 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux

The 4.8 and 4.10 kernels are available from Ubuntu because they are used in Ubuntu short term releases 16.10 and 17.04 and some hardware wasn't supported in the 4.4 and Ubuntu chooses to put these kernels in the 16.04 repositories for users that need them for hardware support. In the future the kernel used in 17.10 will be available also and the final kernel available will be the the one used in Ubuntu 18.04

ColdBoot

Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by ColdBoot »

Cosmo. wrote:We had the discussion about kernel 4.10 only 1 day ago.
We did. Jeremy made me check if 17.04 was really out (somehow I didn't care) which means I can count on patches for 4.10 until January, which is good enough. :D I was all wrong in my previous post in this topic, I admit. :oops:

Jon Spoonamore
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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Jon Spoonamore »

OK. If what I am hearing is true that Ubuntu maintains their own LTS Kernels.... I'm leaving Mint/Ubuntu again. This is just another example that Ubuntu plays by their own rules and tries to be a different type of Linux. They always have and always will. I thought I could come back to Mint and survive. Wrong! Mint 17.3 is the best and last version of a Ubuntu based distro I will ever try to use again or recommend.

I thought 18.1 was going to be stable. Nope! 3 days of oddities and random crashes (I did not touch the Kernel). I'm going back to Manjaro. The only reason I left Manjaro was an OpenSSL bug that affected my MegaSync Client. I'd rather find a work-a-round than deal with Mint 18.1 issues.

Peace Everyone. :)

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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by Jaydemir »

Tries to be a different type of Linux?

Look, if a team decides to use the Linux Kernel of their choosing and make a full fledged OS with it, you're stuck playing by their rules. If you don't like that, feel free to download Ubuntu Mini, Debian, or Arch and build your own distro. Nobody is stopping you. I personally tried Manjaro and hated it, which is surprising because I'm particularly fond of Arch.

Either way, you'll have issues, and you'll have to figure out how to fix them. Not everyone experiences the "oddities and random crashes". My 18.1 XFCE install has been just fine this whole time, even moreso than 17.3 for me, and I've used it in multiple machines via hard drive transfer (same install).

Regardless, unless you're a contributor, you got this stuff for free. If it doesn't make you happy, go buy a Mac.

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Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by JerryF »

I've been using 18.1 Cinnamon ever since it came out and have not had one crash.

I've had to tweak some file for my hardware to work, but other than that, it's running smoothly.
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ColdBoot

Re: LTS 4.9 Kernel

Post by ColdBoot »

Yeah, "tries to be
Jon Spoonamore wrote:OK. If what I am hearing is true that Ubuntu maintains their own LTS Kernels....
No, they are not, you've heard it wrong. Ubuntu maintains Linux kernels you see in the repos. But it's not like you don't have a choice if you need a different one. Some users here are on 4.11 right now! :D

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