Home NAS

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MurphCID
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Home NAS

Post by MurphCID » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:13 am

I was not sure where to put this, so I stuck it here. I am thinking about getting a NAS so that we can finally store ALL the DVD/Blue_Ray disks that we have gotten over the years. I would very much appreciate suggestions on the following:

1) What type of NAS?
2) Suggested storage capacity? I have probably 200+ dvds and want to rip all of them to the NAS so the kids can watch them on their laptops and in the house.
3) Seagate or Western Digital?
4) Software to run it, and allow it to be operated on the TV and on laptops/tablets?

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Re: Home NAS

Post by rene » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:41 am

I have and am myself partial to Netgear ReadyNAS, but would if I were to get something today probably go for Synology DiskStation; specifically either the DS218j or slightly cheaper DS216se, both 2-bay diskless:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6822108688
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6822108213

I would need to compare specs on synology.com in more detail to decide between the two (but expect the 218j; double RAM for one). As their cheapest offering I'd consider the 1-bay diskless DS119j:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6822108418

Note that there's currently specifically on Newegg "open box" copies available of former two; I'd admit to be also tempted by the expensive DS218+:

https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductL ... ageSize=36.

Note that depending on circumstances noise may be a primary characteristic. Not so much if you (can) put it in a closet or attic but all of the above are specifically quiet. This is not necessarily the case for just any brand (and now that I mentioned closet/attic; note these are not WiFi devices, want a cable). The kind of features in the sense of streaming and/or Plex support that you want is dependent on your TV's and/or media player's own capabilities.

As to disks I feel there's nothing even remotely close to Western Digital Red drives for a NAS. Very cool, very quiet and very reliable. As to size; 200 actual DVDs would if you were to store them as ISOs (as I would suggest) net between 1TB and 2TB. Blu-ray's can be up to to 5 times as large as DVDs though.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6822236599
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6822236737

In a 2-bay NAS you'd want 2 disks and seeing as how this is for archival purposes, best would be mirroring RAID so as to guard against a dead disk. That is, capacity-wise you'd have one disk only. A 1-bay NAS with 1 disk and an additional backup on your computer would be significantly cheaper.

All common NAS devices are controlled through an in-built web server, i.e., through your browser and are used without issue from Linux. Do make sure that whatever you get supports NFS and not just SMB/CIFS (Synologies do); NFS is quite a bit more natural/native if the rest of your environment is (mostly) Linux.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by nakednorman » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:04 pm

I had a Seagate 2 disk NAS some while ago (think it was called Black Armour) - I used the disks for something else and jumped up & down on the box and then kicked it against a wall for a long time. It was very slow when it worked but hung frequently (on both Windows & Linux) - I hated it.
At the time I wished I'd bought Qnap or Synology.
Make sure you get one with a fast LAN connection (they probably all have now, but mine didn't & it was a crippler).
Good luck,
NN
PS - the Seagate disks are still working - it was just the box that was useless.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by AndyMH » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:07 pm

Have a synology 216j with 2x2TB toshiba HDDs in it. V happy with both. Bought March 2017.
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Re: Home NAS

Post by MurphCID » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:41 pm

Now does the nas have to be connected to a server all the time? I’m new at this.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by rene » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:48 pm

No. It is a (file-) server. You just hook the NAS into your network and connect to it from your other systems, its clients, through e.g. NFS or CIFS.

Note, many modern NAS boxes will also allow you to host a for example Plex server, most will be a DLNA-server out of the box, many can be a DHCP server for your network... and so on. But NFS and/or CIFS ae what is to be considered main for a NAS.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by MurphCID » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:08 am

Thanks all, what I need is something I can have the spouse-unit and kids connect with wirelessly so they can watch movies from the NAS. I have a decent wifi connection here, and my main PC is hooked into the ethernet from the router. I have Spectrum cable so I get reasonable speeds.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by rene » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:35 pm

I expect you are currently serving these movies from mentioned main PC? Think of the NAS simply as a secondary PC. You'd plug it in to your router, usually wired, and other systems connected either wired or wireless to said same router can then access its repository of files (some or all of which may be "movies").

How to watch those movies depends on what you/they in fact watch them with, i.e., on the video player. I for example have an Android media player hooked up to the TV that runs Kodi; Kodi uses NFS (and could use CIFS) to connect to my NAS. My NAS is also a DLNA/UPnP server so Kodi or my media player more directly could use that as well but little point, given the superior interface of Kodi to to it directly accessible content such as over NFS. If the content is expected to be played back on other general computers doubly so: you/they'd simply access the NAS as a network share and play files to heart's content --- and/or install Kodi on that of course.

Although to me rather misty why, in especially the USA the Plex client/server system appears to be popular; Plex is an old fork of the same XBMC media center that Kodi is a continuation of. You can directly install the Plex server on some NAS boxes --- and I believe most Synology ones --- and use the Plex client on TV or media player as the player. That is, if you have an irrational desire to hoist money at Plex checking compatibility of your desired NAS will be useful: https://www.plex.tv/apps-devices/#servers

A few notes. If your setup is similar to mine with a "Smart TV" as the playback device either directly or through an external media player, that device will also have a USB connection available: a cheaper option is dumping all video onto an external USB drive and plugging it into said device. Most TV's will (supposedly, I guess I should say; be sure to check) then not make those files available to the rest of your network --- will not become a NAS themselves --- but some/many external media players will.

Also and perhaps importantly: your router may have a USB port available and make available contents of connected USB-storage through NFS, CIFS and/or DLNA. May be able to function as a NAS itself that is.

The two latter options would end up being a poor man's NAS (i.e., speed-wise you're going to want to plug the USB drive to your PC directly to add files and TV or router's serving speed may/will be not enough for 4K and/or even Full-HD content, let alone all the other nice things a real NAS can do) but certainly if you have a router with a USB port you may want to try it out. If you then decide to like the setup with a NAS but not the router as the NAS device, you can feel more confident about investing in a real one.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by AndyMH » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:54 pm

For what it's worth, also got a "SMART TV", an LG model. Ripped all my DVDs and put them on the synology NAS, The TV found them automatically.
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Re: Home NAS

Post by MurphCID » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:43 am

AndyMH wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:54 pm
For what it's worth, also got a "SMART TV", an LG model. Ripped all my DVDs and put them on the synology NAS, The TV found them automatically.
That is what I want, I have a "smart" TV, an LG that my wife won in a church raffle. Now, the question is can I do this wirelessly?

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Re: Home NAS

Post by MurphCID » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:46 am

rene wrote:
Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:35 pm
I expect you are currently serving these movies from mentioned main PC? Think of the NAS simply as a secondary PC. You'd plug it in to your router, usually wired, and other systems connected either wired or wireless to said same router can then access its repository of files (some or all of which may be "movies").

How to watch those movies depends on what you/they in fact watch them with, i.e., on the video player. I for example have an Android media player hooked up to the TV that runs Kodi; Kodi uses NFS (and could use CIFS) to connect to my NAS. My NAS is also a DLNA/UPnP server so Kodi or my media player more directly could use that as well but little point, given the superior interface of Kodi to to it directly accessible content such as over NFS. If the content is expected to be played back on other general computers doubly so: you/they'd simply access the NAS as a network share and play files to heart's content --- and/or install Kodi on that of course.

Although to me rather misty why, in especially the USA the Plex client/server system appears to be popular; Plex is an old fork of the same XBMC media center that Kodi is a continuation of. You can directly install the Plex server on some NAS boxes --- and I believe most Synology ones --- and use the Plex client on TV or media player as the player. That is, if you have an irrational desire to hoist money at Plex checking compatibility of your desired NAS will be useful: https://www.plex.tv/apps-devices/#servers

A few notes. If your setup is similar to mine with a "Smart TV" as the playback device either directly or through an external media player, that device will also have a USB connection available: a cheaper option is dumping all video onto an external USB drive and plugging it into said device. Most TV's will (supposedly, I guess I should say; be sure to check) then not make those files available to the rest of your network --- will not become a NAS themselves --- but some/many external media players will.

Also and perhaps importantly: your router may have a USB port available and make available contents of connected USB-storage through NFS, CIFS and/or DLNA. May be able to function as a NAS itself that is.

The two latter options would end up being a poor man's NAS (i.e., speed-wise you're going to want to plug the USB drive to your PC directly to add files and TV or router's serving speed may/will be not enough for 4K and/or even Full-HD content, let alone all the other nice things a real NAS can do) but certainly if you have a router with a USB port you may want to try it out. If you then decide to like the setup with a NAS but not the router as the NAS device, you can feel more confident about investing in a real one.
Thank you, good point. Synology and Onap have some four bay NAS systems on Newegg, and with some 4+ tb drives it might work. I just wonder how much space I need for 200+ DVD/Blu-Ray movies? The Spouse-Unit and kids want all the extras loaded as well.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by AndyMH » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:46 am

Now, the question is can I do this wirelessly?
For the NAS, it would have to be wired, certainly my synology 216j has no wireless capability, other makes - don't know. Whether you could plug a usb wireless dongle into the NAS usb port - don't know either.

My TV is a "LG 43UJ635V 43 Inch Smart 4K Ultra HD TV with HDR". Has both an RJ45 port and wireless and have used it both wired and wireless.

Storage space - nemo says I've got 84 movies occupying 80GB, no bluray. All in m4v format (ripped using a combination of handbrake and makeMKV).
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Re: Home NAS

Post by rene » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:50 pm

MurphCID wrote:
Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:46 am
Thank you, good point. Synology and Onap have some four bay NAS systems on Newegg, and with some 4+ tb drives it might work. I just wonder how much space I need for 200+ DVD/Blu-Ray movies? The Spouse-Unit and kids want all the extras loaded as well.
If you're looking at 4-bay systems I take it price is not a prime consideration but note that you seem to be overestimating storage needs. I went into this above as well: a DVD-DL (i.e., dual-layer, as is normal for factory-pressed movie DVD's) can hold 8.5GB max; typically do a little less at 7GB or so. This means that 200 of them net you less than 1.4TB-1.7TB even if stored as is. Blu-rays can physically store up to 5 times more than DVD-DL, typically do a lot less, and would want a more detailed tallying up for details but if you have only a few you can wing it through the (absolute) worst-case scenario of 50G per Blu-ray; it's more likely to be under 25GB realistically.

Note that Andy's above figure of approximately 1GB per DVD is with further compression which I would these days advise against. Sure, will still look fine for now but DVD-video is already compressed at the source (it's MPEG-2) and in current 4K/Blu-ray times already counts as lower quality. If not yet now then in a few years time you'd regret not ripping the DVD's as is. Also, getting all extra's and including DVD menu's sort of requires ripping as is.

That is, basically you should backup DVD's simply as dd if=/dev/dvd of="My Movie (2000).iso" bs=2048 with a slight tweak only so as to get actual ISO size from the DVD rather than dump per device-size; see for example https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Op ... D.2C_or_BD. Note that unlike Audio-CD a DVD has error-correction effective enough to have this kind of straight copying be perfectly fine if not specifically talking about badly damaged discs. Players will then play back the .iso as an actual DVD, including menu's and all; there'd be no difference with the source format.

If you'd like to test: rip a DVD as per above linked advise and play it as e.g. vlc My Movie (2000).iso. The other non-transcoding solution I am aware of is the dvdbackup program which "unpacks the ISO" which I do not care for. Certainly any transcoding solution would leave you with lesser quality than you have available from your DVD's now. As to storing Blu-rays' compressed not further (they're MPEG-4) as well... well, you decide. I would, if I were to in fact have a single Blu-ray.

But, then, if the Bu-ray section of your collection is only a few consider your storage needs to be about 2TB...

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Re: Home NAS

Post by phd21 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:40 pm

Hi MurphCID,

I just read your post and the good replies to it. Here are my thoughts on this as well.

FYI-1: Although you can get a NAS storage device, as has already been suggested you can also use any computer with Linux and a large enough hard drive (internal or external) to store your multimedia collection and use any of the mulimedia server applications to stream the multimedia content to anyone using "DLNA / UPnP" capable devices like Smart TV's and Smart Blu-Ray players, TV sticks and TV boxes (Roku, Amazon Fire, etc...), smartphones, game consoles, all computers and tablets, etc... I use the simple to install Ultimate Media Server (UMS) for this and it works very well. If you want a more complete Home Theater experience then consider "Plex", or Kodi (xbmc), Stremio, etc... Smartphones and Tablets can just search for and add an application for "UPnP" or "DLNA" to access the content, Smart TV's and Blu-Ray players and most TV sticks and boxes already have this ready to use.

As for what type of storage drives to get, I would recommend getting a Solid State Drive (SSD) now that they have 1+ terabyte (1,000 gigabytes) and larger SSDrives at reasonable prices. Tip: Any typical SATA hard drive or SSD drive (5volts) can be made into a USB drive by simply getting and attaching a USB to SATA adapter cable which are low-cost or a USB drive case. The older 3.5 in hard drives (12volts) would need a USB to SATA/IDE/PATA adapter with its own power supply.

Amazon.com: ssd 1tb - 1 to 1.9 TB / Internal Solid State Drives / Data Storage: Electronics
https://www.amazon.com/s/s/ref=sr_nr_p_ ... 6797515011

Amazon.com: Inateck USB 3.0 to SATA Adapter Cable fit 2.5" SSD/HDD Drives - SATA to USB 3.0 External Converter and Cable(UA1002)
https://www.amazon.com/Inateck-SATA-Ada ... B01E4VHSYG

Amazon.com: usb to sata adapter case
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss ... apter+case


FYI-2: If you get a multi-media "smart" wifi hardware router with a USB port, you can connect any size drive to that and then anything on that will automatically be available to anyone connected to the home or business network. This is considered NAS. I have a tiny portable travel router ($20us) that can do this for smaller WiFi areas like a room or hotel room, etc... Get a more powerful WiFi router for homes or larger areas, see link below.

Amazon.com: NETGEAR R6700 Nighthawk AC1750 Dual Band Smart WiFi Router, Gigabit Ethernet (R6700)
https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-R6700-Ni ... DTVGATG9TE

Amazon.com: Linksys EA6300 Advanced Multimedia AC1200 Smart WiFi Wireless Router (Dual-Band 2.4 + 5GHz 802.)
https://www.amazon.com/Linksys-Advanced ... B00BFW8KH2


FYI-3: You can use the free "MakeMKV" to rip your Blu-Ray and DVD collection of your discs into digital video files for backups and for your multimedia server(s). Of course, you have to have a Blu-Ray DVD player burner writer to read the Blu-Ray discs. To rip Blu-Ray discs into HD digital video files (above HD 720p resolution), you would have to buy a copy of "MakeMKV" which is well worth it. If you can afford it, Please support this wonderful application and its developers by purchasing this as there are not many options for this type of application available.

* Recommend installing from the "Synaptic Package Manager (SPM)", "ubuntu-restricted-extras", "udftools" right-click and install all recommended and suggested packages, "libdvd-pkg" which should also install the "libdvdcss2' decryption packages.

The "K3b" DVD/CD/Blu-Ray application can also copy an entire disc into an ".iso" file which can be played using most multimedia applications and media servers, but this takes up more space and can not easily be reduced in size like video files can. Creating disc ".iso" files using "K3b" of video discs does not always work though, where MakeMKV usually does.

Install makemkv in Linux Mint
https://launchpad.net/~heyarje/+archive ... kemkv-beta

To install MakeMKV using their PPA method, open a console terminal, type in, or copy & paste, each line below one by one: Click "Select All" above command, right click the highlighted command, select Copy (or Ctrl+Insert), click in the console terminal window, and right click paste ("Shift+Insert" or "Ctrl+Shift+v"), repeat for each command.

Code: Select all

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:heyarje/makemkv-beta

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install makemkv-bin makemkv-oss
Current registration Key, valid until end of November 2018.

Code: Select all

T-60xZwR6c65pJ3ykvVyyS4SiNFEpYHA0dDEjkdEH7Ab@Sa6uG3RCaFb8YzYhViTwimT
MakeMKV is free while in beta - link to registration key - Please check back for updated key on this page.
https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1053

More related links to MakeMKV a DVD Blu-Ray disc ripping.

Tweaking4All.com - MakeMKV - Copy a Blu-Ray movie to MP4 or MKV
https://www.tweaking4all.com/video/rip- ... o-mp4-mkv/

How to Play Blu-Ray on Linux - Make Tech Easier
https://www.maketecheasier.com/play-blu-ray-on-linux/


*** Some people will want to reduce the size of the ripped video files, and Handrake is good for this as are some other multimedia converters (WinFF, FF Multi Converter, Avidemux, Curlew, etc...) and various video editors.

How to Install (updated) HandBrake 1.1.0 in Ubuntu 18.04/17.10/16.04 | UbuntuHandbook
http://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/201 ... 7-1016-04/

phd21 wrote:From my calculations regarding the number of video discs you said you have and space required concerns

200+ DVD/Blu-Ray movies:

45 Blu-Ray discs at approximately 30gb (gigabytes) each = 1350 gb or 1.35 tb without compressing or resizing.

No idea what a 4K disc requires but at least the same as a Blu_ray, so 30gb x2 = 60gb

So far that is 200 various type of video discs minus the 47 discs (45 Blu-Ray + 2x 4K discs) = 153 DVD discs left. DVD discs usually rip using makeMKV to 3-5gb each. I just ripped a 2 hour DVD (most DVD's are less than this now about 1.5 hrs) and it is taking up 4.8 gb space.

DVD's have a resolution of around 480p, so they can be converted and compressed without loosing quality using "Handbrake" and other multimedia converter tools to around 1gb per video.

- Without converting or compressing the DVD rips and using an approximate 4gb per video, 153 DVD discs x 4gb each = 612gb for a total of 1,962 gb or appx 2tb (terabytes).

- With DVD conversions into 1gb videos that would obviously be 153 DVD discs x 1gb each = 153gb for a total of 1,503 gb or appx 1.5tb (terabytes).

Although one 2 tb (terabyte) drive could hold all this, It appears to me that getting one 3tb or one 4tb drive would suffice with room to grow, or getting two 2tb drives.

Update: Using the newer Handbrake-GTK to convert the 2hr 7min DVD I have from MakemMKV's 4.8gb ".mkv" file produced an average 1.5gb file (mp4 or mkv) using most options, but when I used the General option Very Fast 576p25 with web optimzation checked the resulting mp4 file ".m4v" was only 976.6 mb and played well and was much faster to convert over the other methods. I could not see much of a difference over the other options.

Hope this helps ...
Last edited by phd21 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 13 times in total.
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Re: Home NAS

Post by AndyMH » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:41 pm

you would have to buy a copy of "MakeMKV"
The 'beta' version is free and has been free 'forever'.
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Re: Home NAS

Post by phd21 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:51 pm

Hi AndyMH,

That is true that the superb "MakeMKV" application for ripping DVD and Blu-Ray discs is free, but as I understand it, the free version limits Blu-Ray ripping to 720p resolution, maybe that has changed.

If you can afford it, Please support this wonderful application and its developers by purchasing this as there are not many options for this type of application available.
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Re: Home NAS

Post by rene » Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:10 pm

Before yet another topic here drowns in a link-fest; please note the simple "dd" advise from above. For archival purposes it's generally what you want. No need for anything involved.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by AndyMH » Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:21 pm

Don't have any blu-ray discs or devices :)
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Re: Home NAS

Post by MurphCID » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:08 pm

We have about 45 blu-Ray and two 4k dvds, the rest are regular dvds. I suspected that I might be over estimating the amount of storage. So Would think that I would only need a two bay NAS. A buddy suggested a 6 bay and 10 TB drives, but I can't afford that. That would be massive overkill.

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Re: Home NAS

Post by phd21 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:44 pm

Hi MurphCID,

The large typical NAS raid options are great for large enterprises that have enough money.

You could get a self-powered USB 4-port hub or docking station and two to four number of 1,2,3,4+ tb terabyte drives (regular HDD lower cost or SSD higher cost but faster and lasts longer) and connect that to a multimedia smart router through one USB port or connected to a Linux computer running some media server software to do what you want very efficiently.

Amazon.com: hard drive - Internal Hard Drive Capacity: 5 selected / SATA III (6 Gbit/s) / 72...: Electronics
https://www.amazon.com/s/gp/search/ref= ... 8067147011

For 3.5inch 12volt drives and or 2.5inch 5 volt drives - can mix them too.
Amazon.com: StarTech.com USB 3.0 to 4-Bay Hard Drive Docking Station w/UASP & Dual Fans - Hot Swap 2.5/3.5in SSD/HDD Dock - SATA 6 Gbps
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-4-B ... ay+powered

For 2.5inch 5 volt drives you could use this type of low-cost self-powered USB hub
Amazon.com: Sabrent 4-Port USB 3.0 Hub with Individual Power Switches and LEDs Included 5V/2.5A Power Adapter (HB-UMP3)
https://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Individu ... owered+hub

Hope this helps ...
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