PC does not fully shutdown from Linux[SOLVED]

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muffybean
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PC does not fully shutdown from Linux[SOLVED]

Post by muffybean »

Just recently one of my PC's with Linux MATE does not fully shutdown. Wondered if it was an issue with 19.2 and have upgraded to 19.3 but same issue. What I am doing at the moment is shutting down and when the monitor screen goes blank, I then turn off the power supply. When I turn the supply back on it stays in off mode. I was thinking it might be a hardware issue but when running CloneZilla to create an image backup, I select shutdown option for when the operation has finished and it shuts down fine. Can't understand why this does not happen from the distro. Anyone have an idea? TIA
Last edited by muffybean on Fri Jan 03, 2020 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by rene »

I expect you were on the 4.15.0-72 kernel on 19.2 and, therefore, now still on 19.3. Conform with uname -r from a terminal. Known issue with that kernel. Upgrade through Update Manager, View -> Linux kernels to the latest 5.0 or 5.3 kernel and reboot. Subsequent shutdowns will likely be fine.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

rene wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:04 pm
I expect you were on the 4.15.0-72 kernel on 19.2 and, therefore, now still on 19.3. Conform with uname -r from a terminal. Known issue with that kernel. Upgrade through Update Manager, View -> Linux kernels to the latest 5.0 or 5.3 kernel and reboot. Subsequent shutdowns will likely be fine.
Hi Rene that is correct but the reson I am on that kernal is because of the issue I had with mpv Media Player and smPlayer as in this topic viewtopic.php?f=48&t=307411. Not sure how I get around this.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by rene »

Frankly I have trouble distilling from that post why you thought to have a problem with kernels other than 4.15.0-72. Try installing the latest 5.0 or 5.3 on 19.3 now and see if there's any issue; I wouldn't expect so, and I can testify to either series not suffering from the shutdown issue.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

rene wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 6:52 pm
Frankly I have trouble distilling from that post why you thought to have a problem with kernels other than 4.15.0-72. Try installing the latest 5.0 or 5.3 on 19.3 now and see if there's any issue; I wouldn't expect so, and I can testify to either series not suffering from the shutdown issue.
The problem was Rene that those programs would not work properly, in fact smPLayer would not open any videos and just crashed. Damien said it was a problem with the kernel I was using due to support for my old machines nVidea support and directed me to use that kernel. Doing this did resolve the problem and the video programs worked fine after that. I have left a message for Damien to see what he makes of my current issue. Do you think going to those later kernels will still support the video programs?
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by rene »

I do. But don't be afraid to test. Booting into the old kernel is a simple matter of booting into the Grub menu and selecting it, and then if so desired removing the new one again.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by DAMIEN1307 »

I have no experience as of yet with 19.3 muffybean and how it will handle the previous problems you were having with 19.2 which seemed to be resolved.

I would try what rene has suggested for this new version upgrade of LM and test what happens...nothing ventured, nothing gained...lol...DAMIEN
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

rene wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 7:10 pm
I do. But don't be afraid to test. Booting into the old kernel is a simple matter of booting into the Grub menu and selecting it, and then if so desired removing the new one again.
I notice both those kernels are only dated until next year, whereas the one I have at the moment is until 2023, so why is the older kernels long dated compared with the latest ones? I am working on my Backup machine at the moment and have installed 5.3.0-24 kernel and will check this out first.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by Moem »

muffybean wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 8:42 am
why is the older kernels long dated compared with the latest ones?
Some kernels have longer support (LTS = Long Time Support), others do not and are intended to solve specific problems, often with newer hardware. There is nothing wrong with staying on an older LTS kernel as long as it's supported; there is also nothing wrong with using a kernel that has no long time support, as soon as you replace it when it loses support.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

Thanks for this Moem.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by rene »

To expand a bit further...

Linux Mint major releases are (these days) based on Ubuntu so-called LTS releases, Long-Term Support releases. Mint 18.x was on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, Mint 19.x is on Ubuntu 18.04 LTS and Mint 20 will be on Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.

Per Ubuntu LTS release Ubuntu designates also a specific kernel series as LTS. Much like for the distribution as a whole this is to say that the kernel stays basically the same, but with essential, bugfix and/or security updates applied by Ubuntu for the entire supported lifetime of the LTS distribution release, by them cherry-picked and back-ported from newer upstream kernel releases or supposedly sometimes self-constructed.

The interim Ubuntu releases between LTS ones come with also interim kernels that are then also made available to the previous LTS; the 4.18 series for example is/was the kernel series for 18.10, 5.0 for 19.04 and 5.3 for 19.10. These distributions/kernels receive support for currently 9 months from the distribution release, i.e., 4.18 is already "unsupported", 5.0 will be next month, 5.3 still has some 8 months in supported state left.

It however pays to note that, contrary to popular opinion, "unsupported" is not in fact a euphemism for "will implode to a black hole and gobble up the planet". The reason to use a newer kernel is most often needed support for new hardware but it can clearly also be the case that old kernels feature a bug that new ones don't: upstream kernel developers tend to fix bugs as well, and Ubuntu can moreover introduce their own bugs. Just see for example where all that LTS-ing has left our system's shutdown behaviour with 4.15.0-72...

Basically, just don't fret it all. A kernel being "unsupported" is a largely meaningless metric in the case of the supported one having a bug for you, an unsupported one not. Given the widespread nature of the shutdown thing I expect the next 4.15.0-NN release from Ubuntu to fix that matter again and you could at that point jump back if you'd care --- but, really, why would you? For those who'd note it: "security issues" are only seldomly directly kernel-based, and in an utterly overwhelming majority of cases even then conceptual at best for an again utterly overwhelming majority of users.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

Right I went for the 5.3 kernel and installed it fine and it is the active kernel. The good news my media players work fine but the shutdown issue has not gone away, I look forward to your advice.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by rene »

Well, that's unfortunate and unexpected. Given that 4.0.15-72 introduced the issue for me on a certain machine on which it was not present with 4.15.0-70 and that you seemed to indicate that it was a new issue for you as well, we experiencing the same issue stood fair chance. Apparently not if 5.3.0-24 which works for me does not for you.

Needs a bit more information therefore: was the shutdown issue always there or did it start recently, presumably correlated with an upgrade?
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

Needs a bit more information therefore: was the shutdown issue always there or did it start recently, presumably correlated with an upgrade?
It started prior to the upgrade and post using the 4.15.0-72 kernel. It was one of the reasons I went from 19.2 to 19.3. I can't remember what I may have installed or did to cause it. The only thing I was trying to sort out was my media player problem. It only started maybe 2/3 days ago. I use this machine hooked up to my large screen TV and switched off the normal way about 3 days ago prior to gong to bed and then the TV and left my study. Next morning I was surprised to come into my room to see the PC was still running. I switched the TV on and the screen was blank, so tried moving the mouse to no effect thinking it had powered off and then come back on again.

I am beginning to think it may be possibly a hardware issue as a few days ago whilst my wired keyboard was plugged in (USB) after doing a CZ backup and it was booted back up into the system I dropped the keyboard and the system shutdown. Whilst running this PC I use a BT mouse and keyboard as it is not convenient to have cables across the floor to the PC, I use is mainly for viewing golf videos and films from my settee. Mind you if it is hardware related I can't figure out why after using CZ it turns of normally when I select shutdown.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by rene »

I believe the anwer's yes from a previous correspondence we had but I might be confusing posters... Nvidia hardware? If so, using the open-source "nouveau" driver? If yes and yes, and given that most Nvidia users prefer running the proprietary driver anyway, can you try if the issue remains with the proprietary Nvidia driver? You'd install that through "Driver Manager".
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

rene wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 5:30 pm
I believe the anwer's yes from a previous correspondence we had but I might be confusing posters... Nvidia hardware? If so, using the open-source "nouveau" driver? If yes and yes, and given that most Nvidia users prefer running the proprietary driver anyway, can you try if the issue remains with the proprietary Nvidia driver? You'd install that through "Driver Manager".
I chose not to use the "nouveau" driver. Do you think I should go for that one?
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by rene »

I believe you may be confusing the two drivers there, because "nouveau" is the open-source driver you use by default. If you explicitly chose anything, it was not to use the proprietary driver. As said, in that case, yes, try, at least as a test.

[EDIT] Oh, and by the way, after switching drivers, its best to shutdown the computer once and only test a reboot after starting up again; that way former initialization by the previous driver will be gone from the hardware.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

EDIT] Oh, and by the way, after switching drivers, its best to shutdown the computer once and only test a reboot after starting up again; that way former initialization by the previous driver will be gone from the hardware.
It reboots ok, it is shutting down that is the issue. I will try what you suggest here. Where do I look to see what driver I did select?
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by rene »

inxi -G will say, but Driver Manager will also show this itself.
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Re: PC does not fully shutdown from Linux

Post by muffybean »

rene wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 6:06 pm
inxi -G will say, but Driver Manager will also show this itself.
nVidea driver..png
As you see not nouveau
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