Version 20 upgrade instructions are either incomplete, or upgrade process is dangerous

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www_MKRD_info
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Version 20 upgrade instructions are either incomplete, or upgrade process is dangerous

Post by www_MKRD_info »

Step "D6. Delete foreign packages" is VERY dangerous. I installed on a backup computer. A VERY long list of packages were presented as "foreign" by Software Sources utility. Trying to delete them, I got notifications that some are essential to the operating system and cannot be deleted (such as "mountall"). Meanwhile, trying to bypass these "essential" packages, and trying to remove others from the "foreign" list, I have now broken my system's ability to remove old kernels - removal fails with:

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Found initrd image: /boot/initrd.img-4.15.0-42-generic
/etc/grub.d/bin/grubcfg_proxy: error while loading shared libraries: libcrypto.so.1.0.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
run-parts: /etc/kernel/postrm.d/zz-update-grub exited with return code 127
dpkg: error processing package linux-image-4.15.0-109-generic (--remove):
 installed linux-image-4.15.0-109-generic package post-removal script subprocess returned error exit status 1
dpkg: too many errors, stopping
Errors were encountered while processing:
 linux-image-4.15.0-109-generic
Processing was halted because there were too many errors.
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
A package failed to install.  Trying to recover:
1) This "D6. Delete foreign packages" step is dangerous.
2) I need to hear a MUCH BETTER explanation of the meaning of this "foreign packages"'; what they are, why it is that I have to delete them, why are ESSENTIAL packages like "mountall", and why are my "third-party installations" are showing up in the list JUST BECAUSE the upgrader removed all third-party PPAs I have previously edited. Why is that I am being told to remove perfectly good third-party software??? Why does the installer have to wipe out third-party PPA sources I have added during previous software installations? IS THERE A STEP MISSING TO RE-ADD PPA's THAT UPGRADE UTILITY HAS DELETED, MANUALLY, BEFORE PROCEEDING TO THIS STEP???
3) I have looked at the "repositories backup" that the installer creates. The listing does not appear to be complete, as I have installed a LOT of third-party software, some of which is being listed as "foreign" OR packages are incorrectly being tagged by "foreign" (whatever that means) which I have installed from downloaded "installers".
4) As already demonstrated, I have now damaged my OS (cannot delete outdated kernel images due to a libcrypto issue). I soft of recovered by manually copying over an old version of libcrypto file per loosely following instruction sin https://askubuntu.com/questions/1116133 ... uch-file-o
5) Someone else has already posted a question regarding WHAT HAPPENS IF THIS "REMOVE FOREIGN PACKAGES" step is skipped. I want to know the answer to that same question before I will touch my primary computer OR I will wait until the promised mid-July PAINLESS upgrade path...
6) Why is removal of foreign package is also FORCING me to remove non-related items such as obsolete kernels??? I am telling you to remove a package NOT a kernel I may use later (for a downgrade, etc). I HAVE A VERY STRONG SUSPICION THAT THIS "FOREIGN PACKAGE" REMOVAL TOOL IS ALSO FORCIBLY STRIPPING REQUIRED, ACTIVE, AND NEEDED PACKAGES FROM THE REST OF MY OPERATING SYSTEM!!!

I DO NOT RECOMMEND THESE UPGRADE INSTRUCTIONS AT THIS TIME. TOO DANGEROUS AND TOO INDISCRIMINATE, WIPING OUT PERFECTLY GOOD SOFTWARE THAT I HAVE MANUALLY INSTALLED PREVIOUSLY FROM THIRD-PARTY PPA's.

Why is mintupgrade ITSELF A FOREIGN PACKAGE and will be removed if these instructions are followed???
Do not remove libnih1 because it wants to remove mountall
Do not remove libplymouth4 because it wants to remove mountall
Do not remove any other package that wants to remove mountall
Do not remove libcrypto.so.1.0.0 itself, or any package that asks you to remove it.

Things I lost from my system so far (maybe other things dissapeared from the menu, this is just what I can remember at the moment) thanks to this upgrade:
f.lux
libcrypto
Chromium
FreeFileSync
"restart" CLI command
OpenHantek oscilloscope software
Inkscape
trash-cli
A custom keyboard layout I have created
carum carvi
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Re: Version 20 upgrade instructions are either incomplete, or upgrade process is dangerous

Post by carum carvi »

Generally speaking it is sound and safe advice when installing a new Linux distribution, to do a new clean install and not try and do an upgrade, although it is being offered to do such an upgrade. Upgrades must be able to work for some, or even for many (I dont know), but when an upgrade doesnt work you can get into a lot of troubles. What I have been reading on this forum for years on end, is the practical and sound advice to prefer to do a new clean install when changing from LM19 to LM20 for example...It can indeed be dangerous to upgrade. I hope you have made good backups of your data...
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smurphos
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Re: Version 20 upgrade instructions are either incomplete, or upgrade process is dangerous

Post by smurphos »

Hi - Foreign Packages are packages that either don't exist at all in the currently set up software sources, or who have a lower version number than the package currenty installed. So this will include anything side-loaded via a deb file plus packages from a third party PPA or repo. mintupgrade isn't in the Ulyanna repos hence it's now a foreign package.

The upgrade from 19.x to 20 is replacing every package from the former Ubuntu base (Bionic) with the new Ubuntu base (Focal). The reason PPAs and third party repos have to be disabled is that they will also be specific to Bionic and need to be replaced with the Focal versions of those PPA's and third party repos.

Similarly anything manually installed by deb without a backing PPA or repo, may need to be reinstalled if the deb was packaged specifically for bionic.

The instructions should be clearer that that is a manual job for the user post upgrade and probably is best done before cleaning up Foreign Packages, or at least in conjunction with it i.e add a PPA, check for and apply updates,, recheck foreign packages. Clem's taking feedback via the blog.

Is the upgrade process dangerous? Personally I'd never upgrade from 18.3 to 19, 19.3 to 20 for my main system and always do a clean install for major version upgrades. Point release upgrades are fine, major version upgrades can be problematic and the more modded the system is the more likely you are to have problems. Even with extensive modifications it's quicker to fresh install and reinstall in my experience - having helpers like Aptik to help restore repos etc makes a fresh install and resetup a breeze. The instructions do make clear you should have a good understanding of the package management system.

Anyway on to your problem.

Has this system been previously upgraded from Mint 18.x to 19 at some point? mountall is a relic from 18.x
There's been an update to mint-sources in the last day that will allow it's removal.

Whats the output of

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apt policy
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Hoser Rob
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Re: Version 20 upgrade instructions are either incomplete, or upgrade process is dangerous

Post by Hoser Rob »

I haven't done a major point release upgrade via the web for a long time, do a clean reinstall. The web upgrade process just isn't reliable enough. This is true of Mint's Ubuntu base too.

If you do a clean reinstall consider setting it up with a separate /home partition. You still want to do a data backup but it makes it much easier. And you keep all your user settings.
www_MKRD_info
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Re: Version 20 upgrade instructions are either incomplete, or upgrade process is dangerous

Post by www_MKRD_info »

carum carvi wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:05 am
Generally speaking it is sound and safe advice when installing a new Linux distribution, to do a new clean install and not try and do an upgrade, although it is being offered to do such an upgrade. Upgrades must be able to work for some, or even for many (I dont know), but when an upgrade doesnt work you can get into a lot of troubles. What I have been reading on this forum for years on end, is the practical and sound advice to prefer to do a new clean install when changing from LM19 to LM20 for example...It can indeed be dangerous to upgrade. I hope you have made good backups of your data...
Yes, I was aware of such advice, still it is cool to do "major" upgrades in-place as being promised here. LM18 to LM19 was a painless update...
Upgrade was done on a laptop, which is not my primary computer.
On main computer I have double Timeshift backups to external hard drives.
I guess I will need to add a LM20 partition on my OS, and triple-boot. I wonder, though, whether /home/ partition settings, if it is made shared between the two installations, will be incompatible...
www_MKRD_info
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Re: Version 20 upgrade instructions are either incomplete, or upgrade process is dangerous

Post by www_MKRD_info »

Hoser Rob wrote:
Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:51 am
I haven't done a major point release upgrade via the web for a long time, do a clean reinstall. The web upgrade process just isn't reliable enough. This is true of Mint's Ubuntu base too.

If you do a clean reinstall consider setting it up with a separate /home partition. You still want to do a data backup but it makes it much easier. And you keep all your user settings.
I wonder whether /home/ partition settings, if it is made shared between the two installations, will be incompatible (once I have its settings conform to LM20, can I still use it within LM19)...
www_MKRD_info
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Re: Version 20 upgrade instructions are either incomplete, or upgrade process is dangerous

Post by www_MKRD_info »

smurphos wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:42 am
The upgrade from 19.x to 20 is replacing every package from the former Ubuntu base (Bionic) with the new Ubuntu base (Focal). The reason PPAs and third party repos have to be disabled is that they will also be specific to Bionic and need to be replaced with the Focal versions of those PPA's and third party repos.

Similarly anything manually installed by deb without a backing PPA or repo, may need to be reinstalled if the deb was packaged specifically for bionic.

The instructions should be clearer that that is a manual job for the user post upgrade and probably is best done before cleaning up Foreign Packages, or at least in conjunction with it i.e add a PPA, check for and apply updates,, recheck foreign packages.
Thank you for the information. It is inline with limited information offered on the upgrade tutorial. However, it just seems too broadband, to treat ALL software I have installed myself via .deb, .install.sh, etc, etc as "unwelcome".
Furthermore, I have reviewed the list of packages that said "these are obsolete and will be removed" AND the list of foreign packages, and I did not see who and why removed f.lux, FreeFileSync, etc, etc, etc. I lost too much software for this to be called upgrade-in-place. This basically WAS a clean upgrade, without me knowing in advance I will have to reinstall a bunch of software after I found it missing.


Thank you for the explanations... Yes, there needs to be a better explanation of post-upgrade step of having to reinstall ALL software. And the output of mintupgrade check and foreign packages listing and list of removed PPAs must be SAVED as a text file, not just visually inspected, for post-backup recovery...


P.S. Again I have told to be notified of replies, but I don't get e-mails! I was wondering whether someone responded, but there was nothing in my inbox! Had to check myself to see that several people already responded!
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