Nemo -- Bogus Names?!?!?!

[markfilipak]

It's like showing EXIF data from jpg files rather than showing the file-name, as with every other file type

No it really isn't. The .desktop file is a bit of a special case. It's entire purpose is typically to launch an application.

Every type of file is a "special case" of something.

I could make up some equally unconvincing reasons why jpg files, but no others, should display some exif data rather than their filenames, but I won't bother.

EXIF data is metadata. It should be accessable, but actual file names should be solely what's shown as the names of files in a file browser/manager.

[JosephM]

No, it isn't. It's your Linux Religion.

I'm not going to argue that magic names and magic numbers and magic directories make learning OS architecture nearly impossible.
I'm not going to argue that each and every directory should include a 'readme.txt' file that explains what's in it and how it's used in the architecture.
I'm not going to argue that Linux is a huge hack.
I'm not going to argue at all. I just want to know how to get Nemo to show the real file names.

Nothing is stopping you from moving on and using something else then. I was simply explaining why it works the way it does. This type of vitriol is probably why so few of the devs bother coming here. There are times when I personally would prefer that it shows the filename instead but I also understand the reasoning why it displays the way it does.

[DAMIEN1307]

This type of vitriol is probably why so few of the devs bother coming here.

There are many more of us who love it when the developers come to visit with us...and thank you for doing so...DAMIEN

[markfilipak]

... Nothing is stopping you from moving on and using something else then.

So, you don't know of a way to force Nemo to show real filenames. Is that correct?
As if Linux-novice life isn't tough enough already... -- That means nothing to you?

I was simply explaining why it works the way it does. This type of vitriol is probably why so few of the devs bother coming here. There are times when I personally would prefer that it shows the filename instead but I also understand the reasoning why it displays the way it does.

vitriol [n.]: something highly caustic or severe in effect, as criticism.
If my criticism is highly caustic or severe to you, then all criticism is vitriol to you. Perhaps you are not equipped to help novices, eh? Maybe you should keep to your Linux high tower and not go outside into the real world, eh?

I keep trying to convince myself that Linux is exactly the way it should be, that opaque and undocumented is how Linux should be, that coming here to beg for help is the future.

Linux scares the crap out of me. I'll stick with MS Windows for productivity/maintainablity and keep a virtual machine running Linux solely for Internet access (because Windows can't be trusted on the Internet). The current Linux will never become my mainline operating system.

[newlyminted7]

As if Linux-novice life isn't tough enough already, Nemo is lying about file names.

/home/mark/.local/share/applications/ Real names:

Code: Select all

alacarte-made-10661ba4-bafb-11e9-a9d8-0800276131b1.desktop
alacarte-made-7b17b796-bb3c-11e9-8c3e-0800276131b1.desktop
alacarte-made-7f812da6-e811-11e9-92b9-08002715efa3.desktop
alacarte-made-f106e09c-bb39-11e9-a595-0800276131b1.desktop
FOO-0021ab8c-15f7-11e8-962f-08002745bf59.desktop
Pale Moon test-67e2be26-bb34-11e9-a203-0800276131b1.desktop
Pale Moon test-ed04b10e-bb34-11e9-a203-0800276131b1.desktop
Pale Moon Web Browser = palemoon-30c8d9d2-88d7-11e9-b9e4-0800276131b1.desktop
palemoon.desktop
userapp-Pale Moon-0DFW5Z.desktop
userapp-Pale Moon-0L0W5Z.desktop
userapp-Pale Moon-57R35Z.desktop
userapp-Pale Moon-G9GCOZ.desktop
userapp-Pale Moon-HC6KEZ.desktop
userapp-Pale Moon-K47Z5Z.desktop
userapp-palemoon-5TFK60.desktop
userapp-palemoon-8NA260.desktop

Bogus names shown when execute permissions are enabled:

Code: Select all

Palemoon
Pale Moon test
Pale Moon test
palemoon
palemoon
Pale Moon
Pale Moon
Pale Moon
Pale Moon
Pale Moon
Pale Moon
Pale Moon
Pale Moon
Pale Moon from VHD
Pale Moon test
Pale Moon Updater = pminstaller.sh
Pale Moon Web Browser = palemoon

How can I stop this outrageous behavior?

Why would you want the "real names", anyway? You really prefer "alacarte-made-10661ba4-bafb-11e9-a9d8-0800276131b1.desktop" over "Palemoon"? I would think seeing "Palemoon" in your Nemo file list would be far more useful than seeing the gibberish data for that same alias file.

Also, for what it's worth, it only appears to happen for user-made aliases. I have one, but it is a file launcher (alias) that I made manually. I'm glad Nemo shows me what I named the alias and not the gibberish. I wouldn't know what it is otherwise.

I would contend that this is why Nemo is displaying aliases like this, because the devs probably thought that what we call our aliases is more useful to us than the gibberish the OS creates it as. At least, it's more useful for me to see the name I gave the alias than the gibberish... Am I really off base by preferring this?

Where else are you seeing this in your filesystem, Mark? Is this affecting lots of other files and directories, as well, or just ~/.local/share/applications and your desktop? Does this really screw up your ability to use Linux that badly by not being able to see gibberish for aliases, or am I missing something?

[markfilipak]

... Why would you want the "real names", anyway?

To see what's really there. So I can further understand the OS.

You really prefer "alacarte-made-10661ba4-bafb-11e9-a9d8-0800276131b1.desktop" over "Palemoon"?

Absolutely, yes. I didn't know that '.desktop' files even existed until I stumbled on it.

I would think seeing "Palemoon" in your Nemo file list would be far more useful than seeing the gibberish data for that same alias file.

Who launches an application program by clicking on anything outside of the menu? I certainly wouldn't. That's far too dangerous. I wouldn't know what would happen -- I've had too many tragic experiences.

Also, for what it's worth, it only appears to happen for user-made aliases. I have one, but it is a file launcher (alias) that I made manually. I'm glad Nemo shows me what I named the alias and not the gibberish. I wouldn't know what it is otherwise.

Why would you name a launcher (a script I assume) with a gibbersh name?

I would contend that this is why Nemo is displaying aliases like this, because the devs probably thought that what we call our aliases is more useful to us than the gibberish the OS creates it as. At least, it's more useful for me to see the name I gave the alias than the gibberish... Am I really off base by wanting this?

You're probably are not a novice. If the OS creates gibberish names, then bad for the OS.

Where else are you seeing this in your filesystem, Mark? Is this affecting lots of other files and directories, as well, or just ~/.local/share/applications and your desktop? Does this really screw up your ability to use Linux that badly by not being able to see gibberish for aliases, or am I missing something?

It's affecting my ability to understand what Linux does so I can maintain it. That's important to me -- I don't have an IT department.

[Jo-con-Ël]

Who launches an application program by clicking on anything outside of the menu? I certainly wouldn't. That's far too dangerous. I wouldn't know what would happen -- I've had too many tragic experiences.

Me, 'cause I want to run "portable" applications (not installed in the system) and also want their shortcuts in panel, menu, desktop.... No bad experiencies ('till now).

[markfilipak]

Who launches an application program by clicking on anything outside of the menu? I certainly wouldn't. That's far too dangerous. I wouldn't know what would happen -- I've had too many tragic experiences.

Me, 'cause I want to run portables applications (not installed in the system) and also want their shortcuts in panel. No bad experiencies ('till now).

Oh, my, launching a portable app is exactly how my quest began and is why I stumbled on '.desktop' files. The problem is that the portable app is an Internet browser and the launch trigger is 'x-scheme-handler/http=' and 'x-scheme-handler/https=' in ~/.config/mimeapps.list.

I managed to get 'mimeapps.list' to associate the portable browser with HTML files, but not with 'http' and 'https' mimetypes.

Do you know how to do that?

[newlyminted7]

... Why would you want the "real names", anyway?

To see what's really there. So I can further understand the OS.

And that's a good reason. Now that you see what's really going on in ~/.local/share/applications/ (and this problem is only occurrring there, by the sounds of it), you can move on to the rest of Linux which you will actually use regularly.

But I still think seeing the friendly names of aliases in Nemo is better than seeing the gibberish.

You really prefer "alacarte-made-10661ba4-bafb-11e9-a9d8-0800276131b1.desktop" over "Palemoon"?

Absolutely, yes. I didn't know that '.desktop' files even existed until I stumbled on it.

No, I'm talking about when you use Linux regularly, not when learning about the OS. You'd really, honestly prefer that Nemo show unfriendly, gibberish names so that you don't know what you're clicking on on a regular, daily basis? Isn't that just silly, though?

I would think seeing "Palemoon" in your Nemo file list would be far more useful than seeing the gibberish data for that same alias file.

Who launches an application program by clicking on anything outside of the menu? I certainly wouldn't. That's far too dangerous. I wouldn't know what would happen -- I've had too many tragic experiences.

Me. I have an alias on the desktop. It is not "dangerous" to launch things outside of the "Menu". Can you give me an example of how this might be considered "dangerous"?

Also, for what it's worth, it only appears to happen for user-made aliases. I have one, but it is a file launcher (alias) that I made manually. I'm glad Nemo shows me what I named the alias and not the gibberish. I wouldn't know what it is otherwise.

Why would you name a launcher (a script I assume) with a gibbersh name?

No, maybe I wasn't clear. I wrote that I prefer that Nemo shows me the friendly name that I gave it and not the gibberish.

I would contend that this is why Nemo is displaying aliases like this, because the devs probably thought that what we call our aliases is more useful to us than the gibberish the OS creates it as. At least, it's more useful for me to see the name I gave the alias than the gibberish... Am I really off base by wanting this?

You're probably are not a novice. If the OS creates gibberish names, then bad for the OS.

I installed Linux about 8 months ago, but have had other experience with Linux, but I'm still learning, that's for sure.
If the OS creates gibberish names then it probably has a reason for doing so. I would say that if Nemo displayed the gibberish names instead of what I named it, then bad for Nemo.

Linux isn't perfect, but I still don't think the use case you have described in this thread is really a common one. I think this is a rare experience, personally. I've never seen or heard anyone bring this type of thing up before, but, then again, I am a relative newbie here. It still seems like Nemo is doing the right thing, to me, by displaying friendly names and not gibberish for aliases in ~/.local/share/applications/.

Where else are you seeing this in your filesystem, Mark? Is this affecting lots of other files and directories, as well, or just ~/.local/share/applications and your desktop? Does this really screw up your ability to use Linux that badly by not being able to see gibberish for aliases, or am I missing something?

It's affecting my ability to understand what Linux does so I can maintain it. That's important to me -- I don't have an IT department.

So it sounds like you're not seeing this anywhere else in your filesystem, then, since you didn't provide a location. That means you really won't have to worry about this since not only is this a rare experience, it only occurs in Nemo in one infrequently used directory. This is not a problem that you will see in Nemo while using it on a daily basis because these gibberish files do not exist elsewhere. If you are madly stuck on this, that is what the Terminal and ls -la is for. If you don't "like this", then maybe Linux isn't for you because it does sometimes require the use of the Terminal.

As far as I know there is no reason to poke around in ~/.local/share/applications, is there? I guess I just don't understand how not being able to view gibberish names in Nemo in that one directory will stop you from maintaining your system. Can you provide a clear example of how it might?

And it's common for Windows users to have this type of experience when switching to Linux, but I'd encourage you to jettison your Windows mindset. Instead of claiming Nemo is broken or has a bug, you might want to learn and adapt to how Linux, Nemo, and Linux Mint do some things. They aren't perfect, but in my opinion they are a whole lot better than those "other OSes". But sometimes it does take some getting used to.

This entire thread is devoted to one tiny aspect of Linux, one that I would argue isn't even a common scenario. Nemo not displaying the gibberish names of files in only one directory on your hard drive should have exactly zero percent of an impact on your daily use of it. To let that colour your impression of Linux as a whole is unfortunate, as you'll miss out on a lot of other great stuff Linux has to offer. Up to you, though.

[Jo-con-Ël]

I managed to get 'mimeapps.list' to associate the portable browser with HTML files, but not with 'http' and 'https' mimetypes.

Do you know how to do that?

That's another question maybe need new topic.

Any way it looks like you want/need Palemoon installed in your system. Look here and follow links for installing. As you can see in manual method (I've never tried 'cause I want those portable apps as isolated as possible) the way palemoon is associated is in MimeType line inside .destop file you create. Now I know when you've found those "bogus ".desktop names and the problem when trying to edit one of them.

Code: Select all

[Desktop Entry]
Version=1.0
Name=Pale Moon Web Browser
Comment=Browse the World Wide Web
Keywords=Internet;WWW;Browser;Web;Explorer
Exec=palemoon %u
Terminal=false
X-MultipleArgs=false
Type=Application
Icon=palemoon
Categories=Network;WebBrowser;Internet
MimeType=text/html;text/xml;application/xhtml+xml;application/xml;application/rss+xml;application/rdf+xml;image/gif;image/jpeg;image/png;x-scheme-handler/http;x-scheme-handler/https;x-scheme-handler/ftp;x-scheme-handler/chrome;video/webm;application/x-xpinstall;
StartupNotify=true

Any way I have no problem with bogus .desktop neme cause i think they are somethig system need (not Nemo) to create shortcuts in menú, panel or desktop for not completely integrated applications in system. I can see shortcuts and they work as spected thats all I need.

(Edited)

[markfilipak]

... Why would you want the "real names", anyway?

To see what's really there. So I can further understand the OS.

And that's a good reason. Now that you see what's really going on in ~/.local/share/applications/ (and this problem is only occurrring there, by the sounds of it), you can move on to the rest of Linux which you will actually use regularly.

From what others have posted, there are '.desktop' files in many directories scattered about the filesystem.

But I still think seeing the friendly names of aliases in Nemo is better than seeing the gibberish.

How about no gibberish in the first place?

You really prefer "alacarte-made-10661ba4-bafb-11e9-a9d8-0800276131b1.desktop" over "Palemoon"?

Absolutely, yes. I didn't know that '.desktop' files even existed until I stumbled on it.

No, I'm talking about when you use Linux regularly, not when learning about the OS. ...

When I'm simply running TBird and Palemoon, no problem. When I try to fix things like mimetype openers for 'http' and 'https' and I can't find how, then there's a problem. Good enough for applications isn't sufficient in that case.

I would think seeing "Palemoon" in your Nemo file list would be far more useful than seeing the gibberish data for that same alias file.

Who launches an application program by clicking on anything outside of the menu? I certainly wouldn't. That's far too dangerous. I wouldn't know what would happen -- I've had too many tragic experiences.

Me. I have an alias on the desktop. It is not "dangerous" to launch things outside of the "Menu". Can you give me an example of how this might be considered "dangerous"?

I can't because Linux didn't survive.

Also, for what it's worth, it only appears to happen for user-made aliases. I have one, but it is a file launcher (alias) that I made manually. I'm glad Nemo shows me what I named the alias and not the gibberish. I wouldn't know what it is otherwise.

Why would you name a launcher (a script I assume) with a gibbersh name?

No, maybe I wasn't clear. I wrote that I prefer that Nemo shows me the friendly name that I gave it and not the gibberish.

I understand. But if you wrote your own '.desktop' file, why would you give it a gibberish name?

I'm glad Linux works for you. I hope that continues.

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to truncate this because it's getting a little tedious.
How I got to this impasse is here: viewtopic.php?p=2044340#p2044340.
I'm simply trying to get a portable app to link when I click an HTTP in an email. That way I wouldn't have to copy the link and then paste it in my browser. It should be easy but it's not. It appears it's not even possible. When I searched for occurances of 'palemoon', that's when I discovered '.desktop' files (because the search script I wrote returns fully-qualified filespecs). When I browsed to the files in Nemo, that's when I discovered that Nemo shows bogus filenames.

[karlchen]

Hello, dear folks.

Let me briefly give the objective facts:

• Nemo is the fault Cinnamon filemanager.
• You can expect your default filemanager to display the real filenames as they are.
• Nemo, however, does not do so consistently.
• It displays the real filenames everwhere, except those in the sub-directory /usr/share/applications.
  In this sub-directory it does not display the real filenames. Instead it reads the content of the .desktop files and presents the localized strings to you,which are also displayed in the Mint application menu.
  This behaviour is at minimum unexpected.
  E.g. my additional filemanager xfe does not do so. It displays the filenames in the sub-directory, as they really are.
• The same kind of .desktop files are also present in each user's $HOME/.local/share/applications directory.
  Here, however, Nemo displays the .desktop filenames, as they really are, and does not display the localized strings, which will be displayed in the Mint application menu.
  No need to mention that my additional filemanager xfe displays the filenames in this sub-directory, as they really are, too.

It may be debatable, whether there is a good reason for a filemanager to make exceptions, like Nemo does for /usr/share/applications.
In case there should be a good reason, then why does the same good reason not apply to $HOME/.local/share/applications?
Honestly, I doubt there can be a good reason for a filemanager to display (almost) all filenames correctly as they are, but to make an exception for a specific sub-directory, just because it holds the launcher files, which are displayed in the Mint application menu.

So basically markfilipak was right in stating that Nemo displays bogus names in some places.
Sadly, however, hardly any participant in this thread seems to have been willing to check the facts in an objective way.

Instead what should have been a technical discussion quickly deteriorated into personal attacks and counter attacks. Folks, I am afraid we have lost the ability to listen to each other and to discuss with each other in a constructive way, based on facts, not based on personal belly feelings.

Regards,
Karl

[markfilipak]

... It [Nemo] displays the real filenames everwhere, except those in the sub-directory /usr/share/applications.
In this sub-directory it does not display the real filenames. Instead it reads the content of the .desktop files and presents the localized strings to you,which are also displayed in the Mint application menu.

Oh, so that's the connection.

Thanks, Karl. I will put that info to good use.

If only the developers put

It [Nemo] displays the real filenames everwhere, except those in the sub-directory /usr/share/applications.
In this sub-directory it does not display the real filenames. Instead it reads the content of the .desktop files and presents the localized strings to you,which are also displayed in the Mint application menu.

into a 'readme.txt' file in /usr/share/applications so novices will find it and learn the reasoning.

[mikeflan]

I agree with markfilipak and kalchen. I don't like this behavior. I think at a minimum they should provide a preferences setting to display the real file name for .desktop files from within Nemo. I was very surprised when I first saw this months ago, and I am still uneasy about it.

[markfilipak]

I agree with markfilipak and kalchen. I don't like this behavior. I think at a minimum they should provide a preferences setting to display the real file name for .desktop files from within Nemo. I was very surprised when I first saw this months ago, and I am still uneasy about it.

How about showing both?! I use Total Commander in Windows. The filenames are real, and pop-up tooltips show metadata.

[JosephM]

It displays the real filenames everwhere, except those in the sub-directory /usr/share/applications.
In this sub-directory it does not display the real filenames. Instead it reads the content of the .desktop files and presents the localized strings to you,which are also displayed in the Mint application menu

Actually this fact is wrong. It isn't only in those subdirectories. Copy one of them to the desktop, for example, and you'll see it displays the same.

From what I remember it's a mixed bag on how file managers display these. Some seem to do it Nemo's way and some seem to show the full filename. I already stated why that is. It seems some people like it and some don't. Personally think I'd prefer seeing the real filename. You can always use a different file manager.

[markfilipak]

The point is: Novices have no knowledge of the metadata and go by what Nemo shows. Are all the people who like that willing to teach novices instead of criticising them as either lazy or stupid?

And what if a novice doesn't come here? How are they to learn? (And please don't bring up man files. They aren't really useful, even if you can get through all the gobbledegook. Man files sketchily outline programs with more or less effective discussion of calling arguments. Man files don't discuss Linux architecture.)

PS: Do you like breadcrumbs? How about breadcrumbs in the form of 'readme.txt' files in every system directory?

[newlyminted7]

To see what's really there. So I can further understand the OS.

And that's a good reason. Now that you see what's really going on in ~/.local/share/applications/ (and this problem is only occurrring there, by the sounds of it), you can move on to the rest of Linux which you will actually use regularly.

From what others have posted, there are '.desktop' files in many directories scattered about the filesystem.

But I still think seeing the friendly names of aliases in Nemo is better than seeing the gibberish.

How about no gibberish in the first place?

Absolutely, yes. I didn't know that '.desktop' files even existed until I stumbled on it.

No, I'm talking about when you use Linux regularly, not when learning about the OS. ...

When I'm simply running TBird and Palemoon, no problem. When I try to fix things like mimetype openers for 'http' and 'https' and I can't find how, then there's a problem. Good enough for applications isn't sufficient in that case.

Who launches an application program by clicking on anything outside of the menu? I certainly wouldn't. That's far too dangerous. I wouldn't know what would happen -- I've had too many tragic experiences.

Me. I have an alias on the desktop. It is not "dangerous" to launch things outside of the "Menu". Can you give me an example of how this might be considered "dangerous"?

I can't because Linux didn't survive.

Why would you name a launcher (a script I assume) with a gibbersh name?

No, maybe I wasn't clear. I wrote that I prefer that Nemo shows me the friendly name that I gave it and not the gibberish.

I understand. But if you wrote your own '.desktop' file, why would you give it a gibberish name?

I'm glad Linux works for you. I hope that continues.

I hope you don't mind but I'm going to truncate this because it's getting a little tedious.
How I got to this impasse is here: viewtopic.php?p=2044340#p2044340.
I'm simply trying to get a portable app to link when I click an HTTP in an email. That way I wouldn't have to copy the link and then paste it in my browser. It should be easy but it's not. It appears it's not even possible. When I searched for occurances of 'palemoon', that's when I discovered '.desktop' files (because the search script I wrote returns fully-qualified filespecs). When I browsed to the files in Nemo, that's when I discovered that Nemo shows bogus filenames.

Sigh. Yes, tedious indeed...

Are you really going to allow this rare experience tarnish your entire experience of Linux? Is that really wise? Because that's sort of silly, in my opinion.

I understand. But if you wrote your own '.desktop' file, why would you give it a gibberish name?

Sorry, I don't think you understand at all... I never said to give the file a gibberish name, I wrote (twice now) why would you prefer Nemo to display a gibberish filename (when it could display a friendly filename)? But I get the sense nothing matters no matter what we say in this thread Good luck!

[newlyminted7]

In the interest of genuinely trying to help you, here are some possible solutions, albeit likely imperfect in your opinion, that might help you:

Other file managers to look into:
https://www.tecmint.com/top-best-lightw ... -managers/
https://www.ubuntupit.com/linux-file-ma ... nux-users/

Or, you might consider creating (or getting help with creating, that is, if it isn't novice-friendly) Nemo Actions:
https://www.linuxquestions.org/question ... 175676776/

Basically you can create a custom right click action in Nemo that you could run on a file to see its "real name". Maybe some here can draft a solution like this to help you. I was thinking maybe have the right-click Nemo Action call a shell script and in it use Zenity to pop up a notification with the file's real name or something. Just an idea.

Anyway, there are ways to do this type of thing, and if it can be done anywhere, it can most likely be done in Linux.

[rene]

Except in this case, nemo is intelligent enough to read the contents of the desktop file, work out what the executable is (Exec=), display the icon for the program (Icon=) and then display the application name (Name=) instead of the filename - neat or what?

Neato!

Code: Select all

Name=readme.txt
Icon=plaintext.png
Exec=ransomware

As in; I'll go for the "or what" option. Discussion been's had before as well by the way: viewtopic.php?t=319999