Laptop Not Shutting Down Properly After Kernel Upgrade

[Paul608085]

I have a HP455 G3 laptop running Linux Mint 20.2 Cinnamon. I try to keep it as up-to-date as I can, installing most updates within a day or so of receiving the taskbar notification. I also try to use the latest kernel version available in Mint's Update Manager, because I assume that this is the most up-to-date and secure, (is this correct, or are old kernels OK to use long term?).

What I have noticed recently is that when shutting down the laptop via Mint's menu, the display goes off, but the lights on the power, wifi and speaker mute buttons all stay on, as does the fan. I wait a few minutes, but eventually have to kill it by holding down the power button.

I assumed that an update had caused this, and after a lot of experimentation I have narrowed it down to the kernel: version 5.11.0-40 works OK and shuts down properly, but version 5.11.0-41 and above, (including the two 5.13's currently available), cause this shutdown problem.

Is my problem a known issue, (any workaround)?

The problem from my perspective is that 5.11.0-40 has been superseded, and 5.11 will become End of Life in a couple of months. Is it OK to continue using this version indefinitely?

Failing any other solution, should I revert to kernel 5.4.0-91 which I also have installed, (this one is supported until April 2025)?

[Pjotr]

I assumed that an update had caused this, and after a lot of experimentation I have narrowed it down to the kernel: version 5.11.0-40 works OK and shuts down properly, but version 5.11.0-41 and above, (including the two 5.13's currently available), cause this shutdown problem.

Is my problem a known issue, (any workaround)?

Yes. Boot from the kernel that works correctly and remove the bad ones. Then blacklist the bad ones.

The problem from my perspective is that 5.11.0-40 has been superseded, and 5.11 will become End of Life in a couple of months. Is it OK to continue using this version indefinitely?

Not optimal of course, but it's reasonable and acceptable. Your real life security probably won't be affected much, because on desktop systems attackers usually (if not always) focus on other things (noticeably your web browsers).

[Paul608085]

@Pjotr

Thanks for the reply.

I meant is there a workaround that would enable me to continue using the latest kernel? In years to come, Mint will eventually be shipped with kernel 5.13 or later. What will I do then?

I have already removed kernels 5.11.0-41 and both versions of 5.13, so that I now boot into 5.11.0-40. I keep getting reminded to upgrade to 5.11.0-41 - how do I "blacklist" this version?

Can you also please confirm that from a security point of view, it is better to use a kernel that is later, but has become End OF Life, as 5.11 will in February 2022, rather than the older 5.4.0-91 which is still supported until April 2025?

[SMG]

Is my problem a known issue, (any workaround)?

Please give us information about your install by entering this command in a terminal: inxi -Fxxxrz
Click </> from the mini toolbar above the textbox where you type your reply and then place your cursor between the code markers and paste the results of the command between the code markers [code]Results[/code]. This will let us know how Mint sees your hardware and will permit us to make appropriate recommendations.

[Paul608085]

@SMG

Thanks for the reply. As requested:

Code: Select all

paul@HP-ProBook-455-G3:~$ inxi -Fxxxrz
System:
  Kernel: 5.11.0-40-generic x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: N/A 
  Desktop: Cinnamon 5.0.7 wm: muffin 5.0.2 dm: LightDM 1.30.0 
  Distro: Linux Mint 20.2 Uma base: Ubuntu 20.04 focal 
Machine:
  Type: Laptop System: HP product: HP ProBook 455 G3 v: N/A serial: <filter> 
  Chassis: type: 10 serial: <filter> 
  Mobo: HP model: 80EF v: KBC Version 92.72 serial: <filter> 
  UEFI [Legacy]: HP v: N79 Ver. 01.51 date: 10/21/2020 
Battery:
  ID-1: BAT0 charge: 26.8 Wh condition: 28.0/32.6 Wh (86%) volts: 15.9/14.8 
  model: Hewlett-Packard Primary type: Li-ion serial: <filter> 
  status: Discharging cycles: 105 
CPU:
  Topology: Quad Core model: AMD A10-8700P Radeon R6 10 Compute Cores 4C+6G 
  bits: 64 type: MCP arch: Excavator rev: 1 L2 cache: 1024 KiB 
  flags: avx avx2 lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm 
  bogomips: 14373 
  Speed: 1295 MHz min/max: 1300/1800 MHz boost: enabled Core speeds (MHz): 
  1: 1296 2: 1297 3: 1297 4: 1297 
Graphics:
  Device-1: AMD Wani [Radeon R5/R6/R7 Graphics] vendor: Hewlett-Packard 
  driver: amdgpu v: kernel bus ID: 00:01.0 chip ID: 1002:9874 
  Display: x11 server: X.Org 1.20.11 driver: amdgpu,ati 
  unloaded: fbdev,modesetting,vesa resolution: 1366x768~60Hz 
  OpenGL: renderer: AMD Radeon R6 Graphics (CARRIZO DRM 3.40.0 
  5.11.0-40-generic LLVM 12.0.0) 
  v: 4.6 Mesa 21.0.3 direct render: Yes 
Audio:
  Device-1: AMD Kabini HDMI/DP Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard 
  driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:01.1 chip ID: 1002:9840 
  Device-2: AMD Family 15h Audio vendor: Hewlett-Packard 
  driver: snd_hda_intel v: kernel bus ID: 00:09.2 chip ID: 1022:157a 
  Sound Server: ALSA v: k5.11.0-40-generic 
Network:
  Device-1: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet 
  vendor: Hewlett-Packard driver: r8169 v: kernel port: 2000 bus ID: 01:00.0 
  chip ID: 10ec:8168 
  IF: enp1s0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: <filter> 
  Device-2: Intel Wireless 7265 driver: iwlwifi v: kernel port: 2000 
  bus ID: 02:00.0 chip ID: 8086:095a 
  IF: wlp2s0 state: down mac: <filter> 
Drives:
  Local Storage: total: 465.76 GiB used: 43.67 GiB (9.4%) 
  ID-1: /dev/sda vendor: SanDisk model: SDSSDH3500G size: 465.76 GiB 
  speed: 6.0 Gb/s serial: <filter> rev: 70RL scheme: MBR 
Partition:
  ID-1: / size: 456.95 GiB used: 43.67 GiB (9.6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda5 
Sensors:
  System Temperatures: cpu: 43.2 C mobo: N/A gpu: amdgpu temp: 24 C 
  Fan Speeds (RPM): N/A 
Repos:
  No active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list 
  Active apt repos in: /etc/apt/sources.list.d/official-package-repositories.list 
  1: deb http://www.mirrorservice.org/sites/packages.linuxmint.com/packages uma main upstream import backport
  2: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal main restricted universe multiverse
  3: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-updates main restricted universe multiverse
  4: deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu focal-backports main restricted universe multiverse
  5: deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ focal-security main restricted universe multiverse
  6: deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu/ focal partner
Info:
  Processes: 222 Uptime: 2m Memory: 14.60 GiB used: 1.15 GiB (7.9%) 
  Init: systemd v: 245 runlevel: 5 Compilers: gcc: 9.3.0 alt: 9 Shell: bash 
  v: 5.0.17 running in: gnome-terminal inxi: 3.0.38 
paul@HP-ProBook-455-G3:~$ 

[Pjotr]

@Pjotr

Thanks for the reply.

I meant is there a workaround that would enable me to continue using the latest kernel? In years to come, Mint will eventually be shipped with kernel 5.13 or later. What will I do then?

I have already removed kernels 5.11.0-41 and both versions of 5.13, so that I now boot into 5.11.0-40. I keep getting reminded to upgrade to 5.11.0-41 - how do I "blacklist" this version?

In Update Manager, right-click the bad update.

Can you also please confirm that from a security point of view, it is better to use a kernel that is later, but has become End OF Life, as 5.11 will in February 2022, rather than the older 5.4.0-91 which is still supported until April 2025?

No. The latter is better for security, even though its series is older. But it's probably unfit for your rather recent hardware because of its age (the drivers are in the kernel).

[Paul608085]

@Pjotr
Thanks for the reply. I have now disabled all future updates for kernel 5.11.

I don't think that my laptop is particularly "recent"? According to Wikipedia it was released in 2015.

Time is relative though

I didn't notice any hardware issues when I first installed Mint on the laptop and kernel 5.4 was all there was until I got around to upgrading it, so I might revert back to that unless the info that @SMG requested earlier shows up anything useful.

[Pjotr]

@Pjotr
Thanks for the reply. I have now disabled all future updates for kernel 5.11.

I don't think that my laptop is particularly "recent"? According to Wikipedia it was released in 2015.

I judged from the date of the BIOS. Misjudged it, therefore.

[Paul608085]

I judged from the date of the BIOS.

Like the kernel, I try to keep the BIOS up-to-date! As you mentioned it, I just checked and BIOS is still the latest version available from HP and would have been upgraded some time ago - long before this shutting down issue started.

[Pjotr]

I judged from the date of the BIOS.

I try to keep the BIOS up-to-date!

I also do that.... Most people don't, though.

[SMG]

What I have noticed recently is that when shutting down the laptop via Mint's menu, the display goes off, but the lights on the power, wifi and speaker mute buttons all stay on, as does the fan. I wait a few minutes, but eventually have to kill it by holding down the power button.

What is the longest you have left it to wait and see if it shuts off?

The problem from my perspective is that 5.11.0-40 has been superseded, and 5.11 will become End of Life in a couple of months. Is it OK to continue using this version indefinitely?

Failing any other solution, should I revert to kernel 5.4.0-91 which I also have installed, (this one is supported until April 2025)?

Given the age of your computer's CPU, I do not see a special reason for you to be running the 5.11 kernel (I think it should work with either). Just switch back to using the 5.4 kernel. It is supported until April 2025.

I meant is there a workaround that would enable me to continue using the latest kernel? In years to come, Mint will eventually be shipped with kernel 5.13 or later. What will I do then?

Worry about it then and not now?

It's possible whatever is causing the issue for your computer will be fixed in future kernels. Or we could check the logs to see what is causing the issue. If you know how many boot cycles ago was one with the "problematic" 5.11 kernel shutting down we could probably pull the logs now. Or you can re-install and do some tests.

[Paul608085]

@SMG
Thanks for your help with this.

"What is the longest you have left it to wait and see if it shuts off?"
I have not actually timed it, but would guess about 5 minutes, Normally it would be just a few seconds.

]"Given the age of your computer's CPU, I do not see a special reason for you to be running the 5.11 kernel (I think it should work with either). Just switch back to using the 5.4 kernel. It is supported until April 2025."
The only reason that I was upgrading the kernel was that my understanding that this was necessary to maintain security. Is that not true? If not, I will happily roll back to v5.4 as I didn't notice any problems with it on this laptop.

Although kernel 5.4 is supported until April 2025, will it still be included in future releases of Mint in the Update Manager. Would I be correct in assuming that each release, and point release, of Mint drops inclusion of older kernels in Update Manager - even though those older kernels may still be supported by their maintainers? For example, Mint 20.3 is due to be released soon - does anyone know what kernels are included or available in that Update Manager? If I can't update via Update Manager, how would I download kernel 5.4.0-91 for future use, (until 2025), and install it?

[SMG]

The only reason that I was upgrading the kernel was that my understanding that this was necessary to maintain security. Is that not true? If not, I will happily roll back to v5.4 as I didn't notice any problems with it on this laptop.

To maintain security you must use a kernel which is receiving support. The 5.4 kernel is an LTS (long-term-support) kernel and will receive support until April 2025.

Although kernel 5.4 is supported until April 2025, will it still be included in future releases of Mint in the Update Manager.

The 5.4 kernel is the LTS kernel for all versions of Linux Mint 20. That includes Linux Mint 20, LM20.1, LM20.2, and LM20.3. Linux Mint 20 (all versions) and the 5.4 LTS kernel are both supported until April 2025.

I do not know what kernel will be the LTS kernel for Linux Mint 21, but it will not be the 5.4 kernel.

Would I be correct in assuming that each release, and point release, of Mint drops inclusion of older kernels in Update Manager - even though those older kernels may still be supported by their maintainers? For example, Mint 20.3 is due to be released soon - does anyone know what kernels are included or available in that Update Manager? If I can't update via Update Manager, how would I download kernel 5.4.0-91 for future use, (until 2025), and install it?

No, your assumption is not correct. The LTS kernel will not be dropped from Update Manager. It will be there until the very end.

[Paul608085]

@SMG
Thanks again for your speedy reply.

I am slightly confused now. You said at the end of your last post "The LTS kernel will not be dropped from Update Manager. It will be there until the very end", but prior to that you said "The 5.4 kernel is the LTS kernel for all versions of Linux Mint 20" and "I do not know what kernel will be the LTS kernel for Linux Mint 21, but it will not be the 5.4 kernel".

Does this imply that I might not be able to upgrade to Mint 21 next year if the LTS kernel is later than the 5.11.0-40 that I am currently using, (and my problem has not been fixed), even though kernel 5.4 itself is still supported?

According to Wikipedia, kernel 5.10 is also a LTS release and supported until December 2026. As this kernel does not appear in Mint's Update Manager, how would I go about downloading and installing it, (or 5.4) - preferably by PPA or similar so that it upgrades automatically over time?

[SMG]

I am slightly confused now. You said at the end of your last post "The LTS kernel will not be dropped from Update Manager. It will be there until the very end", but prior to that you said "The 5.4 kernel is the LTS kernel for all versions of Linux Mint 20" and "I do not know what kernel will be the LTS kernel for Linux Mint 21, but it will not be the 5.4 kernel".

Does this imply that I might not be able to upgrade to Mint 21 next year if the LTS kernel is later than the 5.11.0-40 that I am currently using, (and my problem has not been fixed), even though kernel 5.4 itself is still supported?

Correct. Linux Mint 21 will have a different LTS kernel which will be supported for five years from its release just like the 5.4 kernel will have five years of support.

According to Wikipedia, kernel 5.10 is also a LTS release and supported until December 2026. As this kernel does not appear in Mint's Update Manager, how would I go about downloading and installing it, (or 5.4) - preferably by PPA or similar so that it upgrades automatically over time?

You do not want to install that 5.10 kernel. Mint is designed to work with kernels maintained by Ubuntu. The kernel you referenced is a mainline kernel from kernel.org and is not an Ubuntu-maintained kernel. That is why that kernel is not in your Update Manager.

[Paul608085]

@SMG

Why would I "not want to install that 5.10 kernel"? I understand that it would not be officially supported by Mint, but it is an official Linux kernel, so what problems could I experience? Unless of course it is the LTS kernel in Mint 21 - can anyone please advise what the LTS kernel will be? I'm guessing it will be 5.15 which has been released in the past couple of months?

If it is unsafe to use my current 5.11.0-40 kernel past next February, and Mint 21 only uses kernels later than 5.11.0-40, then it seems to me that I will be stuck using Mint 20.3 until support for that ends and not be able to take advantage of newer features in the future?

[SMG]

@SMG

Why would I "not want to install that 5.10 kernel"? I understand that it would not be officially supported by Mint, but it is an official Linux kernel, so what problems could I experience?

Do you buy tires that were designed to be used on your specific vehicle or do you buy whatever tires are in the store? Just because it says it is "an official Linux kernel" does not mean it's going to be a good fit for what you are running. If you do not care if you are running software that is supported or not, then you can install whatever you want and not bother asking us what is best for your Mint install. We advise using Mint kernels.

Unless of course it is the LTS kernel in Mint 21 - can anyone please advise what the LTS kernel will be? I'm guessing it will be 5.15 which has been released in the past couple of months?

You guess is as good as anyone's. You are asking questions about what will happen a year from now. It's not relevant to your current issue. You have a 5.4 kernel you can use which works on your laptop and is supported.

[Paul608085]

@SMG
Thanks again for your reply.

I thought that all Linux distros were built around the same kernels? Does each distro modify the kernel in some way to suit their specific needs then?

"You are asking questions about what will happen a year from now"
According to the Mint blog, Mint 20.3 beta will be released imminently, suggesting a full release is not too far off? Doesn't that imply that Mint 21 is therefore probably only about 6 or 7 months away - ie next summer? According to Wikipedia, a LTS kernel is released once per year - towards the end of the year. LTS kernel 5.15 was released on 25th October 2021, so is almost certainly going to be the current LTS one still when Mint 21 is being developed and released. That is what I was basing my "guess" upon.

Having said all that, the laptop is not my main PC, and Linux is meant to be tweaked isn't it? For anyone else who experiences the same problems as I did, I found this page at UbuntuHandbook: https://ubuntuhandbook.org/index.php/20 ... -5-15-out/

Scroll down for details of installing kernel 5.15 on Ubuntu 20.04. Having installed 5.15 on my Mint 20.2, my initial findings are that everything seems to working OK - indeed the WiFi connection appears to be more stable than before, though that may be a coincidence (?). Also, the laptop shuts down properly again on 5.15

I'll resume testing it tomorrow - I can always revert the kernel if needs be. Is there anything that I should be aware of when running an "unapproved" kernel in Mint that might not be obvious? Devices not working would be obvious, 'm thinking if there might be any "invisible" security issues?

[SMG]

I thought that all Linux distros were built around the same kernels? Does each distro modify the kernel in some way to suit their specific needs then?

Yes, some distros do modify the kernel to work better with their distribution.

According to the Mint blog, Mint 20.3 beta will be released imminently, suggesting a full release is not too far off? Doesn't that imply that Mint 21 is therefore probably only about 6 or 7 months away - ie next summer?

The next release for the Mint developers after completing LM20.3 is to work on releasing LMDE5. Then after LMDE5 is released will work begin on LM21.

According to Wikipedia, a LTS kernel is released once per year - towards the end of the year. LTS kernel 5.15 was released on 25th October 2021, so is almost certainly going to be the current LTS one still when Mint 21 is being developed and released. That is what I was basing my "guess" upon.

You are again confusing mainline LTS kernels with Canonical/Ubuntu kernels. Just because the mainline 5.15 kernel is LTS does not mean that is what Canonical will support as LTS.

Go to your wikipedia page and tell me what it says for the 4.15 kernel which is the Canonical/Ubuntu LTS kernel used in LM19. It says it went end of life nearly three years ago, but Ubuntu is still releasing patches/updates for it. It is being maintained by Canonical until April 2023.

Enjoy your experimenting. My time is limited and I focus on supporting Mint's supported versions.

[Pjotr]

Is there anything that I should be aware of when running an "unapproved" kernel in Mint that might not be obvious?

Yes. It's risky and not recommended because of the reasons mentioned here:
https://easylinuxtipsproject.blogspot.c ... ml#ID6.3.2
(item 6.3.2)