How to migrate from Windows 10 to Mint

[jharris1993]

Greetings!

I have been, (among other things), a long-time Windows user since the time of Windows 3.1 and have developed a body of experience and applications for just about every version of Windows since then.

<opinion>
IMHO, Windows reached the pinnacle of perfection with Windows 7.

Windows 8 and 8.n was a devil-spawned abomination.

Windows 10, though better, introduced the era of "I can do whatever I want to your computer" and I have become heartily tired of "essential security updates" being more marketing directed - installing "features" that I neither want nor need and randomly resetting all my carefully crafted settings and configurations back to what Microsoft thinks I want rather than what I actually want.
</opinion>

When I go to the Microsoft forums and ask for a way to disable this intrusive behaviour, I'm told it cannot be done. I mention that I am sure there are sites, (large businesses, hospitals, doctors offices, etc.) that cannot allow this kind of intrusive behaviour and they - obviously - can stop it, I am told after I've gone and spend years getting a bunch of fancy Microsoft certifications and then maybe I can do it.

In essence, &^%#@!!-you and the horse you rode in on - we're going to do whatever we darn well please, and if you don't like it, eff-off and don't bother us.
</rant>

I have become heartily tired of Microsoft's heavy-handed attitude toward their user base. (I dumped Ubuntu for that exact same reason.)

Rather than be railroaded into yet another upgrade to another, more intrusive operating system with Windows 11, I would like some kind of exit-strategy.

My wife and I use a lot of Windows based software.
For example, I use Outlook 2010 as my mail client. (My wife uses Thunderbird which is an easy fix).
We use the Windows client for VyprVPN - and I don't think they have a 'nix client.
Etcher, (I use for flashing SD cards for my Raspberry Pi), is abominable under 'nix.

Then there are things like Skype and WhatsApp that, (AFAIK), don't have 'nix versions and it's not reasonable for me to tell everyone else we talk to - to install Pigdin or some other messaging client simply because WE want to use it.

As a test, I want to try migrating my own HP laptop to Mint since Mint represents, (IMHO), what an operating system should be like. (And my system is heavily customized - if that will transfer over, my wife's system should be a piece of cake!)

Ideally, I should be able to install whatever I am going to use, ONCE and then leave it alone. As a consequence, I would like a Mint version with the longest useful life possible.

I would like to be able to migrate as much of the "windows" experience to the new system as possible to reduce the amount of re-training my wife will need. (If it were just me, I'd say "punt this!", bite the bullet and take the dive.)

What is the best exit strategy for migrating from Windows to Mint while minimising the disruption?

I already have a dual-boot Win-10/Mint 19.3 system set up and I would be willing to sacrifice the Mint install to put Mint 20 - or whatever everyone recommends - to use as my migration test-bed.

I realise this is a very broad and open-ended question and I apologize for that.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

[JerryF]

...
Ideally, I should be able to install whatever I am going to use, ONCE and then leave it alone. As a consequence, I would like a Mint version with the longest useful life possible.
...

With regards to this, Mint is based on Ubuntu and is not a rolling-type release OS. As far as I know, Mint's Debian version is not either. That means you'd need to upgrade/install newer versions every so often (each major version is a 5-year long-term release.)

There are other linux distributions such as Manjaro that are rolling releases so it keeps updating without needing a new install.

To barely summarize about the rest of your post:

I my opinion, you'll need to find and learn Linux software that's equivalent to Windows software, depending on how much Windows software the both of you use.

I too am a user of Windows since 3.1 and about 5 years ago, now use Mint as my OS. I do use Windows for TurboTax, but that's about all. Fortunately, my partner does light stuff (email, internet browsing) so he had very little learning curve using Mint.

[jharris1993]

I my opinion, you'll need to find and learn Linux software that's equivalent to Windows software, depending on how much Windows software the both of you use.

There's the rub. . . .

Question:
How well do the Windows emulators, (WINE, et. al.) work? If I have an application that is indispensable, yet doesn't exist in 'nix, (say something like Money Dance that I use for tax accounting), how well can I expect it to work in an emulator?

If possible, I'd really rather not have to go the route of QEMM, (etc) and install Windows inside of Linux. If I'm going to all that trouble, I might as well stick with what I already have.

With regards to this, Mint is based on Ubuntu and is not a rolling-type release OS. As far as I know, Mint's Debian version is not either. That means you'd need to upgrade/install newer versions every so often (each major version is a 5-year long-term release.)

With Windows, every time I do an update there is the mad scramble for what does or does not work with the new version - and another mad scramble to find drivers for hardware that is not current-generation - especially printers and such.

What kind of expectations should I have with respect to ongoing releases of Mint?
(Assume I will be starting with the current Mint 20.n version.)

Side note:
I discovered Mint back at version 13, and it was like ". . .and where have you been all my life?!!"

Unfortunately, my job required Windows, so I stuck with it. Now that I have retired I'd really like to tell M$ & Co. to just eat a rock.

[AndyMH]

If possible, I'd really rather not have to go the route of QEMM, (etc) and install Windows inside of Linux. If I'm going to all that trouble, I might as well stick with what I already have.

Don't rule that out without trying it. I started dual boot, then switched to running win7 in a VM under VirtualBox (that's what most of us use, so you will get more informed support here with VB). I run office in it - needed for work (now retired), e.g. outlook for company email and 30 year user of excel/word, so no matter how good the competition, I'm not about to change. Having said that, I boot win maybe once a month if that often now. Running win in a VM is a lot less clunky than dual booting.

IMHO, Windows reached the pinnacle of perfection with Windows 7.

Yes, agreed, and by running it in a VM, it never goes near the internet and I can restrict its access to my linux filesystems (through shared folders).

Wine - some stuff works, a lot doesn't. If this is work related get crossover instead (commercial version of wine), easier to install and easier to install windows software, more tweaks to get stuff to run. As well as win7 in a VM, I have crossover for excel/word 2013 and a few other old win software. They have a compatibility database so you can check in advance, e.g. Money Dance (it doesn't):
https://www.codeweavers.com/compatibili ... dance-2017

There are linux alternatives to most win software, depends on how 'essential' the win software is to you. You can adapt if you want to, if it is customer led, you are stuck with the win software. You can google alternatives or ask here.

You will find that evolution looks more like outlook than thunderbird and mailspring has a very nice user interface (but no calendar which is why I don't use it).

According to google, VyprVPN does work with linux, I don't use it, PIA user.

If you start with LM20.3 (due for release now), you will be able to stick with it for about five years as Jerry said. There are some things you can do to future-proof yourself to make upgrades easier, like having a separate /home partition.

[JerryF]

Ditto with what AndyMH said.

I tried WINE, but had no luck with it for several programs. Too much aggravation! I dropped it in favor of keeping Windows.

[legacypowers]

My wife and I use a lot of Windows based software.
For example, I use Outlook 2010 as my mail client. (My wife uses Thunderbird which is an easy fix).
We use the Windows client for VyprVPN - and I don't think they have a 'nix client.
Etcher, (I use for flashing SD cards for my Raspberry Pi), is abominable under 'nix.

Then there are things like Skype and WhatsApp that, (AFAIK), don't have 'nix versions and it's not reasonable for me to tell everyone else we talk to - to install Pigdin or some other messaging client simply because WE want to use it.

As a test, I want to try migrating my own HP laptop to Mint since Mint represents, (IMHO), what an operating system should be like. (And my system is heavily customized - if that will transfer over, my wife's system should be a piece of cake!)

Ideally, I should be able to install whatever I am going to use, ONCE and then leave it alone. As a consequence, I would like a Mint version with the longest useful life possible.

I would like to be able to migrate as much of the "windows" experience to the new system as possible to reduce the amount of re-training my wife will need. (If it were just me, I'd say "punt this!", bite the bullet and take the dive.)

What is the best exit strategy for migrating from Windows to Mint while minimising the disruption?

I already have a dual-boot Win-10/Mint 19.3 system set up and I would be willing to sacrifice the Mint install to put Mint 20 - or whatever everyone recommends - to use as my migration test-bed.

I realise this is a very broad and open-ended question and I apologize for that.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Skype has a linux version(last time i used it had a memory leak problem that you would need to close the application and open it again, WhatsApp you can use the web version, about the e-mail, well that case i would suggest joining your wife in the thunderbird team,
the Cinnamon version of Linux Mint has the "feel" of Windows 7 including most of the windows like global keyboard shortcuts like windows key opening the menu, winkey + e opening the file manager, and if it is not enough shortcuts are easy to configure(had issues in the past with WinKey + L), with a custom icon-set and a custom theme you can make it look like Windows, i'm not fanatic into this approach but it has worked for me twice with family members that literally just need a word processor and a web browser.
LibreOffice does a good job on the compatibility spectrum of MS Office, but i had weird issues with powerpoint slides being all messed up in LibreOffice Impress.
One training that you and your wife will need to go is the updates, on Linux Mint it will pop-up on the tray and once you click it a Update Manager will show up and you click update and it will ask for your password, you can set automatic updates too if that floats your boat.
Another important thing: NVIDIA graphics cards , have the built in open source nouveau drivers, which for me those are only good enough to boot up and install the proprietary drivers(which can be done easily on Linux Mint with the Driver Manager), if have intel graphics or amd graphics, you are good to go as soon as you install.

[cliffcoggin]

There's the rub. . . .

Question:
How well do the Windows emulators, (WINE, et. al.) work? If I have an application that is indispensable, yet doesn't exist in 'nix, (say something like Money Dance that I use for tax accounting), how well can I expect it to work in an emulator?

With the exception of games and a limited number of more serious applications Wine support is patchy, so it would be a mistake to rely on it for essential applications without testing first on an existing Linux computer. Either use a VM or stick with Windows.

[ricardogroetaers]

I won't quote the excerpts from the author of the thread so as not to fill up this post unnecessarily.

- Very amusing the expressions the author uses, it de-opilated my liver (if he uses regional expressions I can use them too).

- The pinnacle of Windows perfection, in my opinion, was Windows 95 OSR 2.5. I use its DOS to this day.

- Etcher is a joke, I use the "Disks" program.

- Skype has a Linux version, but I use Zoom.

- WhatsApp for Windows or any other system, just mirrors the screen of the smartphone. There is an unofficial WhatsApp for Mint, maintained by the leader of the Mint project himself.

- Money Dance (I don't know this program) is available in "deb" format on the developer's own website (http://moneydance.com/).

- Since the day they invented on-line email, I have never used an email program. The last email program I used was the "Internet Mail and New" that came with "Internet Explorer 3" in Windows 95 (26 years ago).

- Legend has it that Windows 11 requires hardware with "TPM" to work. "TPM", in Brazilian Portuguese, is an abbreviation for "Tensão pré menstrual". I'll have to take my computer to the gynecologist before installing Windows 11.

- Of course there are those specific programs that only have a Windows version. If there is no similar program for Linux, it is best to use Windows (dual boot). Wine is not reliable.

[wallyUSA]

I use LM 20 Cinnamon. Then added a VM for Windows. Lean and clean - best of both worlds

[jharris1993]

Very amusing the expressions the author uses, it de-opilated my liver (if he uses regional expressions I can use them too).

What? Where did I say that?

I might use a "figure of speech" now and then but - as I understand that the Mint community is multi-national - I, (try to), keep the very cultural specific references to a minimum.

Legend has it that Windows 11 requires hardware with "TPM" to work. "TPM", in Brazilian Portuguese, is an abbreviation for "Tensão pré menstrual". I'll have to take my computer to the gynecologist before installing Windows 11.

In Russia, the specific part of the federal police force that is responsible for traffic law enforcement is called "ДПС" (DPS) - which has a "alternate" translation of those initials which, roughly translated, means "The department responsible for annoying the public."

There is an unofficial WhatsApp for Mint, maintained by the leader of the Mint project himself.

Where? I'd like to see it.

Etcher is a joke, I use the "Disks" program.

What is "Disks"? I do not recall having heard of that.

When within Linux I use either ddrescue or dd. I like ddrescue because it intelligently copies larger blocks of data at a time, keeps track of what - if anything - went wrong, and handles the end of the media properly.

Thanks!

[ivar]

When I go to the Microsoft forums and ask for a way to disable this intrusive behaviour, I'm told it cannot be done. I mention that I am sure there are sites, (large businesses, hospitals, doctors offices, etc.) that cannot allow this kind of intrusive behaviour and they - obviously - can stop it, I am told after I've gone and spend years getting a bunch of fancy Microsoft certifications and then maybe I can do it.

large businesses/institutions uses enterprise editions of windows. Still bloated, but less than the "Pro" and home versions. And centrally controlled policies and customizations to avoid too much crap.

I came over this software to turn off "telemetry" , theres also an "appbuster" application to disable the useless crap that gets installed on every major update
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

[Hoser Rob]

I my opinion, you'll need to find and learn Linux software that's equivalent to Windows software, depending on how much Windows software the both of you use.

There's the rub. . . .

Question:
How well do the Windows emulators, (WINE, et. al.) work? If I have an application that is indispensable, yet doesn't exist in 'nix, (say something like Money Dance that I use for tax accounting), how well can I expect it to work in an emulator?

All those emulators you speak of are ultimately based on Wine. WHich is simply unreliable and will always be because it was a dumb idea in the first place. Just look at the Wine app database. Most apps fail.

If you need a Windows program for business use, keep some Windows. LibreOffice isn't really compatible enough for business use. I have no WIndows but I don't use a computer for business and I'm not a gamer, otherwise I'd still have at least one Windows partition.

[ricardogroetaers]

What? Where did I say that?

was a devil-spawned abomination
IMHO
you and the horse you rode in on

There is an unofficial WhatsApp for Mint, maintained by the leader of the Mint project himself.

Where? I'd like to see it.

See the picture.

What is "Disks"? I do not recall having heard of that.

See the picture.

Thanks!

You're welcome.

[AndyMH]

What is "Disks"? I do not recall having heard of that.

Full name gnome-disks, and a high level description already provided. It has its uses, but not a fan:

• it makes very messy entries in fstab (this is a file that contains instructions to mount partitions on boot automatically), better to do it manually.

• it will allow you to create a partition on a drive without a partition table (with no warning), linux will handle this, but not a good idea and win will throw a hissy fit if it sees a drive like this.

The standard linux partition manager is gparted, I think it is better than disks, but it has its quirks as well.

When within Linux I use either ddrescue or dd. I like ddrescue because it intelligently copies larger blocks of data at a time, keeps track of what - if anything - went wrong, and handles the end of the media properly.

The 'usb image writer' installed by default works fine for linux ISOs, no good for a win ISO. woeUSB is an alternative to etcher.

[shoaibiqbal123]

What? Where did I say that?

was a devil-spawned abomination
IMHO
you and the horse you rode in on

There is an unofficial WhatsApp for Mint, maintained by the leader of the Mint project himself.

Where? I'd like to see it.

See the picture.

What is "Disks"? I do not recall having heard of that.

See the picture.

Thanks!

You're welcome.

Thanks for the images, help skip some of the reading content :p

[jharris1993]

I came over this software to turn off "telemetry" , theres also an "appbuster" application to disable the useless crap that gets installed on every major update
https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10

A certain amount of telemetry is unavoidable - however (IMHO) it should be as limited as possible and it should be avoidable.

The "Shutup10/11" app looks interesting - but messing with some of those system policies can be scary. One nice touch is that it allows you to create a system restore point before you go whacking around in the system!

Re: Everyone.
Thanks for the advice, it is all excellent!

Some of it I already knew, some I suspected might be true, and a bunch of it I'd never heard of before - so huge thanks!

It's going to be a little while before I get around to this, so any additional advice you may wish to offer is appreciated.

Thanks again!

[ShadowSkill]

There are some unofficial Whatsapp clients you can try:
- Whatsapp Desktop ( the one mentioned above)
- Whatsapp for Linux (https://github.com/eneshecan/whatsapp-for-linux)
- Whatsdesk (https://gitlab.com/zerkc/whatsdesk)
- Altus (https://github.com/amanharwara/altus)
- Whatsie (https://github.com/keshavbhatt/whatsie) - too bad it's only available in snap.
- etc.

I myself use Whatsdesk atm.

[jharris1993]

There are some things you can do to future-proof yourself to make upgrades easier, like having a separate /home partition.

OK, I'll bite. . .

It has always been my opinion that having everything within the same partition allows any part of the system to grow since everything - in essence - balances out.

In the case of my home folder on Windows I have the lion's share of a 2T SSD full of stuff I use frequently - like cloned GitHub repos, Raspberry Pi system images I'm testing, documents, other downloads, etc.

I am not sure how to:

• Divide up the entire space of the hard drive/SSD so that it is most effectively used. (Also, my laptop system doesn't have the capability to install a second internal hard drive.)
  .
• What would having a separate /home partition buy me that rsync'ing my existing home partition to a scratch drive and then restoring it won't?
  .
  Note that I actually tried that once with an installation of 20.n in a virtual machine and I copied a 19.3 home directory, (also from a virtual machine), over it - and the result was an absolutely FUBAR'd system - to the point I had to nuke and rebuild.

I've read a lot of stuff advocating a separate /home partition - or even /home hard drive! - and others that recommend a monolithic approach.

Advice and suggestions are always welcome!

Thanks!

[AndyMH]

With a separate /home partition your / partition typically doesn't need to be any bigger than 30-40GB (unless you insist on using lots of flatpaks/snaps). On a major upgrade, e.g. LM20.3 to LM21.0 (not a minor upgrade, such LM20.2 to LM20.3) the recommendation is always to do a fresh install. You can tell the installer to reuse the / partition and reformat it and reuse the /home partition and not reformat it. Doesn't remove the need for a backup, but you should have backups anyway. I've had the same home partition since LM17, makes life a little easier. As you have noted, different users here have opposite views on a /home partition. I'm in the for camp.

[jharris1993]

How do you keep all the older hidden config and cache files from making a balls-up of everything?