LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

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excollier
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby excollier » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:18 am

I should add that I installed SolydX on a separate hdd, I still have LMDE on my main hdd, hoping it will be sorted.
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Mr. Pants
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Mr. Pants » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:05 pm

Well sadly I have jumped ship also. I have no issues with waiting for updates but being kept out of the loop with what is happening (or not happening) just stinks. I've been using Mint distros since Mint 8 and have always loved each one but after getting tired of distro hopping and doing installs I went with LMDE for the rolling updates. I installed Arch many months ago on my laptop and have grown to love it so as of last night I and no longer running a Mint machine. Kind of stinks that this thread is 4 pages long and nobody "in the know" has chimed in with an update. :?

thanks for all the help over the years :D

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killer de bug
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby killer de bug » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:08 am

Mr. Pants wrote: Kind of stinks that this thread is 4 pages long and nobody "in the know" has chimed in with an update. :?


Yeah that's definitely terrible !
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby eanfrid » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:44 pm

I am still thinking that a pure Debian stable with backports enabled and "mintified" with either Cinnamon or MATE atop is a better choice than LMDE.
Main desktop: Debian GNU/Linux Jessie 64bit - MATE
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killer de bug
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby killer de bug » Sat Aug 17, 2013 1:07 pm

eanfrid wrote:I am still thinking that a pure Debian stable with backports enabled and "mintified" with either Cinnamon or MATE atop is a better choice than LMDE.


It's at least as recent as LMDE. And if we wait a little bit more, it will be way more uptodate thant LMDE :mrgreen:
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby kurotsugi » Sun Aug 18, 2013 2:40 am

if the UP system is what you need then there's a nice solution for that. we actually can use the snapshot of debian testing from solydxk. in this scenario we'll get regular monthly UP which already tested by solydxk team.

before you apply this method,
1. you cinnamon will die. you'll need to use another DE and wait until new version comes.
2. you'll need to get used with terminal, apt, and dpkg. it's the best way to maintain your system
if you good with this term then you can use this method

our content of /etc/apt/sources.list of lmde will be something like this.

Code: Select all

deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import incoming romeo
deb http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/linuxmint-debian/incoming testing main contrib non-free
deb http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/linuxmint-debian/incoming/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://mirror.internode.on.net/pub/linuxmint-debian/incoming/multimedia testing main non-free
the first line is linuxmint repository. the second line is a snapshot of debian testing. the third line is snapshot of debian's security repository. while the last one is deb-multimedia repository. in our case we'll need to change the repository into

Code: Select all

deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
deb http://debian.solydxk.com/production/ testing main contrib non-free
deb http://debian.solydxk.com/production/multimedia/ testing main non-free
deb http://debian.solydxk.com/security/ testing/updates main contrib non-free
these modification is enough but if you familiar with apt then further modification on /etc/apt/preferences is better. in this case I'll skip it.

anyway, as I've said the best method is maintain the system via terminal. if you're not familiar with it you'll need to remove mint's update manager then install solydxk's update manager. you'll need to put solydxk's repository to install it.

Code: Select all

deb http://packages.solydxk.com/ solydxk main upstream import community

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MALsPa
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby MALsPa » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:47 am

eanfrid wrote:I am still thinking that a pure Debian stable with backports enabled and "mintified" with either Cinnamon or MATE atop is a better choice than LMDE.

For me, Debian Stable is a better choice than LMDE regardless of the desktop environment I choose to use.

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killer de bug
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby killer de bug » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:48 am

kurotsugi wrote:if the UP system is what you need then there's a nice solution for that. we actually can use the snapshot of debian testing from solydxk. in this scenario we'll get regular monthly UP which already tested by solydxk team.



You are right ! That's something to try, especially if you can afford a breakage. It can run nicely and you still have your minty Linux :wink:


edit : I just tried SolydX. What a beauty during the boot process. Very professional.
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kurotsugi
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby kurotsugi » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:57 am

if you like it, you can also mintify solydxk simply by add mint's repo and install mint's stuff. in this case we'll need to modify /etc/apt/preferences. to avoid breakages the content of /etc/apt/preferences more or less like this one

Code: Select all

Package: *
Pin: release o=linuxmint
Pin-Priority: 600

Package: *
Pin: origin packages.linuxmint.com
Pin-Priority: 600

Package: *
Pin: origin packages.solydxk.com
Pin-Priority: 700
solydxk have newer package than the one in lmde so that I prefer to give solydxk higher priority. it will also ensure that I'll get the newest version and better compatibilty with other solydxk's packages.

please avoid to use metapackage from lmde repository. the best way is to install the package based on individual package. the cinnamon is died but you still could get mate, mint tools and mint themes from lmde's repository. the best thing is that if we understand how /etc/apt/preferences work we can even further modify our system and safely install any package from debian/ubuntu based distro.

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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby zerozero » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:18 am

like i said here before we are going way off-topic. furthermore those experiments if you are not a very experienced linux user can be dangerous.
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Zill
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Zill » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:11 pm

zerozero wrote:like i said here before we are going way off-topic...

Very true. Unfortunately, I think is the result of users being frustrated by the apparent lack of information regarding the future direction of LMDE. There did seem to be an expectation that Update Packs would be delayed long enough to ensure that packages were tested and unlikely to cause breakage but also released on a fairly regular basis to ensure that each UP was of a manageable size.

We now seem to be in the situation where work on UPs has apparently stopped and users may be concerned about the size of a UP if and when the next one is issued, particularly in view of the rapid change of Debian Testing at the moment.

While we all realise that FOSS is a community effort and none of us can demand anything from any other user or developer, I think users would really appreciate some guidance from our "leaders" on the future of LMDE.

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killer de bug
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby killer de bug » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:30 pm

zerozero wrote:like i said here before we are going way off-topic. furthermore those experiments if you are not a very experienced linux user can be dangerous.


We would love to discuss UP7 but we don't even know if there will be one in the future. :?
So for now, we have to assume LMDE is dead and we have to find new ideas to get our system up-to-date. Following SolydX repo doesn't seem more dangerous than straight Debian Testing...

Ask Clem to give us an answer so that we could know something... :wink:
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rop75
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby rop75 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:37 pm

I do think that Clem and company should reconsider what to do with LMDE. Now LMDE is not a rolling nor semi-rolling distro, is a frozen distro, more frozen than Debian Wheezy (where you can use backports to get recent versions of your packages). MOreover is quite an insecure distro (as it does not get any security updates) From my point of view, LMDE is a great idea, poorly developed.

I know that the MInt team is a small team, and they are running lots of projects, and the "ideal" LMDE requires lot of time, money and manpower to be maintained and maybe Linux Mint team does not have these resources available, so it is high time LMDE team made a decision about LMDE and they only have 3 options:
To keep LMDE as it is now... this LMDE based on UP every six months is a little disaster from my point of view
to close LMDE: This would be really sad
or to change it: I completely agree with eanfrid when he says that "Debian stable with backports enabled and "mintified" with either Cinnamon or MATE atop is a better choice than LMDE". It is an option that it is not as time-consumer as the current LMDE and that would provide LMDE users with an stable and secure distro with the Mint flavour

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palimmo
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby palimmo » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:18 am

I agree with rop75.

I find LMDE an excellent project but it needs more attention!
However, my congratulation to the team!

P.S. Is it "safe" and useful to use debian backport repository in LMDE?
And in this case, how to add it?
thanks!
LM Cinnamon 64bit & SolydK 64bit

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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Monsta » Mon Aug 19, 2013 6:07 am

rop75 wrote:MOreover is quite an insecure distro (as it does not get any security updates)

Well, everything on that topic has been said in LMDE FAQ (section two, Q1). I think that even the first line of that answer is enough:

zerozero wrote:let's see, if security is THE most important value for you, then you probably shouldn't be using LMDE/debian testing/sid (stable is your answer)



On the subject of Update Packs, the security repo was added in UP3 for the reasons of better compatibility with the rest stuff:

Clem wrote:This is to ensure a higher level of compatibility between the packages present in all the repositories.
Clem wrote:We’ve always favored stability over security. If a security issue is important enough that it requires immediate action we can push it ourselves via the LM repos, or even trigger a new Update Pack just to pick it up.

I won't say anything about whether any of these out-of-band updates ever happened or not :D but, since things probably won't change in UP7, I suggest that you turn UP's security repo off, add the original Testing security repo, and see -
1) how many updates are actually pushed there;
2) how soon one of them breaks something in your UP6 system :)

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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Zill » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:01 am

Monsta: Thank you for the useful links and info which do help to show some of the thinking behind LMDE. However, it is still not clear to me if LMDE has now become a "frozen" distro based on Debian stable, or if it is expected to be updated from time to time to contain (LMDE tested) packages from Debian testing.

If LMDE is now a "frozen" distro, new releases will need to be produced and installed regularly to ensure that reasonably up-to-date and secure packages are used.

However, if LMDE is still a semi-rolling distro then re-installation should be unnecessary as packages should always be reasonably up to date. IMHO, the Update Packs should provide this functionality but, if they are only issued infrequently then (a) security update implementation will be very slow and (b) each UP download size will be huge.

I do agree that mixing and matching repos from other distributions is very likely to end in tears. :-(

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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Fesiitis » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:24 am

When comes UP7, when? [...]. For more than one month Mint 15 KDE is released. But there is no any information about LMDE UP7 or something else about LMDE. Also Clem was said that July news comes very shortly, but that was 10 days ago, so.. where is news?
I don't like it. [...]
Last edited by zerozero on Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: edited for language

olderunner
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby olderunner » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:01 pm

I run LMDE with cinnamon. If I change my repos to debian testing will I get a mintified debian with things still working?

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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby GeneC » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:12 pm

olderunner wrote:I run LMDE with cinnamon. If I change my repos to debian testing will I get a mintified debian with things still working?


Sorry oldrunner, Debian Testing breaks Cinnamon right now.

viewtopic.php?f=198&t=132747&start=100#p752564

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Zill
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Re: LMDE Update Pack 7 - when?

Postby Zill » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:17 pm

olderunner wrote:I run LMDE with cinnamon. If I change my repos to debian testing will I get a mintified debian with things still working?

Only if you enjoy fixing things. ;-)

See Upgrade Warnings: LMDE tracking TESTING [12-08-13]


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