MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments [SOLVED]

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NorfolkGreg

MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments [SOLVED]

Post by NorfolkGreg »

I gather that entries in the "Favourites" panel on the MintMenu have three displayable components: Generic Name, Name and Comment. These appear as a name and description on the Favourites Panel and in the hover pop-up.

However, there appears to be an inconsistency in how these display depending on whether a generic name has been provided and while it is possible to edit the name and comment, the interface does not provide an option to enter or edit a Generic Name.

Where are these entries stored in the file system so I can add/edit them or is there an option that I have missed in the GUI?
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gm10

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by gm10 »

NorfolkGreg wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:27 am However, there appears to be an inconsistency in how these display depending on whether a generic name has been provided
What is that inconsistency? When GenericName is not defined, Name should be shown instead. If something isn't working correctly in this respect we can fix it (but seems to working fine as far as I can see).
NorfolkGreg wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:27 am Where are these entries stored in the file system so I can add/edit them or is there an option that I have missed in the GUI?
No, I don't think MATE offers an option to set that via the GUI. The entries are stored in the associated .desktop file/launcher. By default they are stored in /usr/share/applications/ but for those you modified they will be found in ~/.local/share/applications/. To modify a file from the former location simply copy it to the latter and edit it there.
NorfolkGreg

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by NorfolkGreg »

gm10 wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:50 am What is that inconsistency? When GenericName is not defined, Name should be shown instead.
As you say the technicalities are consistent.

It's the implication of the lack of Generic Name and inconsistency in approach to naming amongst the various app developers that produces the inconsistencies. While some of the pre-installed apps in Mint include a Generic Name, others do not. So, for example, on the Favourites Panel Firefox displays as:
Web Browser
Firefox Web Browser
with hover text:
Firefox Web Browser
Browse the World Wide Web
while xed displays as:
Text Editor
Edit text files
with identical hover text.
Similarly, with apps I have installed, Audacity displays "correctly" as:
Sound Editor
Audacity
with hover text:
Audacity
Record and edit audio files
While Bluefish displays as:
Bluefish Editor
Web Development Editor
with identical hover text.

It's the inconsistencies both in those that put together the Mint package and individual app developers that I am seeking to remove.

Your info on the file locations is just what I needed. Many thanks!
gm10

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments [SOLVED]

Post by gm10 »

We don't have control over what the package maintainers put into the launcher names/descriptions (except for our own packages). But we can control how the menu displays it.

If I understand you correctly, your issue is with the tooltips not matching the Swap name and generic name setting. In fact the tooltips always display just the Name and the Comment, if any. Would you expect the GenericName to show instead of the name? Or maybe Name (Generic Name)?

I might have noticed myself if the menu would actually display tooltips for me. :P Something else to look into I guess...
NorfolkGreg

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by NorfolkGreg »

Hi gm10,

And I've just had to remove the [SOLVED] from the original post which it seems I added prematurely on the assumption that editing the files you pointed to was the solution! :-(

Having edited a couple of the files I found in

Code: Select all

~/.local/share/applications/
on the assumption that what's in them would take priority over those in the other folder, not only have the edits not taken effect but I have lost the tooltips too. I even tried a reboot to see it that would help - but it didn't. :-(

I've do some more playing!
NorfolkGreg

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by NorfolkGreg »

Well...

I've just used the "Launcher Properties" dialogue to edit the details of one of the programs I had previously changed. It had no effect. So I deleted the appropriate file in ~/.local/share/applications/ and I have the tooltips back!

I used the Launcher Properties again and a file has been created again in that folder and the changes are accepted.

I've also tried adding a line "GenericName=Web Editor" to a file in /usr/share/applications/ but that doesn't appear to have any affect - though I haven't tried re-booting this time.

I'm figuring that something needs to prompt mintmenu.py into re-reading the files, or there is some other mechanism at work here.
gm10

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by gm10 »

Changes should show in real time, there's no need to reboot. If the change doesn't show up then likely something is wrong about the way you edited the file. That's with mintmenu 5.9.1 on LM19.1 at least.

But looking at how the favourites are set up I'm currently having a hard time understanding why we're doing this GenericName thing at all when we're not doing it for the rest of the menu. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the entries look the same whether you see them in a category/search result or in the favourites? That is, show the description (the Comment=) on the second line?

As someone more invested into this than I am please do share your opinion. ;)
NorfolkGreg

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by NorfolkGreg »

gm10 wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:51 am Changes should show in real time, there's no need to reboot. If the change doesn't show up then likely something is wrong about the way you edited the file. That's with mintmenu 5.9.1 on LM19.1 at least.
That's what I'm using - Mate desktop.

I did assume that the changes should take place in real time. Certainly, after I deleted the "Bluefish Editor" file and then used the "Launch Properties" Dialogue with a Caja window open along side, I saw the new file created in it immediately and now when I edit it I see the Date Modified column update.

Obviously, it's possible I did something wrong, but the evidence of the various files is that the lines of code can be in a random order and my syntax is definitely right as for testing I have been copying as pasting from other files.

The reason why I suspect that it takes more that a file edit to make the change stick is because it seems to be related to the loss of tooltips and the topic at:
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=35123&p=202208#p208082
seems to suggest that hard coding changes into mintmenu.py is the way to do it - although that seems over the top to me and somewhat unlikely.
But looking at how the favourites are set up I'm currently having a hard time understanding why we're doing this GenericName thing at all when we're not doing it for the rest of the menu. Wouldn't it make more sense to have the entries look the same whether you see them in a category/search result or in the favourites? That is, show the description (the Comment=) on the second line?
Now you're making me analyse it, that proposal makes some sense. I was focussed on giving all entries the same format for the sake of consistent appearance, but the nature of favourites is that the user will know exactly what the program does and doesn't three three levels of description. They are far more likely to need additional description when about to launch rarely used and less familiar programs - and that brings me to a new discovery...

Since editing the Launch Properties for "Bluefish Editor" I see that it now appears in bold in the "All applications" list,as newly installed programs do, and there is a tooltip with it that matches that when I hover over it in "Favourites". Currently, no other program anywhere in my All Applications section appears in bold and although I've only been running Mint 19.1 a couple of weeks I can't remember if you always get a tooltip with a newly encountered applications that are still listed in bold.

I think this behaviour gives further credence to my theory that aside from the files you mentioned there's some other configuration file somewhere that affects when tooltips appear and this is related to my desire to get the three levels of description the same for all apps.
gm10

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by gm10 »

I am telling you that the .desktop files are being monitored for changes by the menu and the entries update automatically. There should be no need for a source code changes here, it's working correctly on my end. If you want you can post the contents of your .desktop file and we can have a look.

Regarding the information displayed with favourites you are saying that my proposal makes sense (my proposal was to display the same entry with an identical layout no matter whether you see it on the favourites or applications views) but then you seem to argue for the way it currently works. Although your argument makes sense, too, and is likely why it was originally designed that way. Maybe I'll just leave it alone, but now that you made me notice it's an inconsistency that I have a hard time accepting. ;)

As to the rest: New menu entries appear in bold. As I initially explained, when you edit a system-installed application, then a copy of the .desktop file is created in your user settings, and that counts as "new" here. It's expected behaviour.

The tooltips issue I already found and fixed internally, you'll get the fix with the next mintmenu update. I'll also add an option to the preferences to be able to toggle them on/off, because personally I don't like them.
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Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by absque fenestris »

As far as menu entries in Mint Mate 17 & 18 are concerned:
Basically I remove all comments and use the original name for each application.

In the Menu > Rightclick on the application name > Edit Properties > Insert the desired name, respectively delete the comment.

A little handwork, but afterwards the menu is nice and clear.
The same in the panel.
gm10

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by gm10 »

^ or just disable showing of application comments in preferences...
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Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by absque fenestris »

gm10 wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 3:22 pm ^ or just disable showing of application comments in preferences...
ÄHM..! Yes - but sicher ist sicher :mrgreen:
NorfolkGreg

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by NorfolkGreg »

Hi gm10
gm10 wrote: Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:05 pm I am telling you that the .desktop files are being monitored for changes by the menu and the entries update automatically.
I do accept that. I don't know what was going wrong before but I have just used a text editor to edit my "Bluefish Editor" file in /usr/share/applications and it worked. (Maybe I was editing the version in ~/.local/share/applications that made it all go wrong!)
Regarding the information displayed with favourites you are saying that my proposal makes sense (my proposal was to display the same entry with an identical layout no matter whether you see it on the favourites or applications views) but then you seem to argue for the way it currently works. Although your argument makes sense, too, and is likely why it was originally designed that way. Maybe I'll just leave it alone, but now that you made me notice it's an inconsistency that I have a hard time accepting. ;)
My position is more that I would like MintMenu to be as flexible as possible so that it can cope with my original request, and those of both yours and absque fenestris's preferred options.
As to the rest: New menu entries appear in bold. As I initially explained, when you edit a system-installed application, then a copy of the .desktop file is created in your user settings, and that counts as "new" here. It's expected behaviour.
That's understood and is working here, though somewhere in messing with the BlueFish file today I managed to lose the tooltips again, but you say you have that under control in the next update.

The good news is that I have found a solution to editing the "Generic Name": Caja!

Navigate to /usr/share/applications right--click on the desired file and you have the opportunity to edit the "Description" (aka GenericName) and "Comment" fields. You can't edit the Name, but that is possible via MintMenu's "Launcher Properties" dialogue.

So now mt request morph's into can the next update of MintMenu, include the ability to edit the "Generic Name", so I don't have to go to two places to make the necessary edits.

I can't be alone in having my Favourites set to two columns and finding that the default name for "Chromium Web Browser" is too long to display, as is "Page Layout (Development)", the Generic Name for "Scribus".
gm10

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by gm10 »

NorfolkGreg wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:40 pm My position is more that I would like MintMenu to be as flexible as possible so that it can cope with my original request, and those of both yours and absque fenestris's preferred options.
Flexibility is good where it makes sense, I'll have to be careful not to make this too complicated. Can't say yet what I'll end up doing here. But theoretically we could make the subtext optional and if it's shown, have it optionally be the comment.
NorfolkGreg wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:40 pm So now mt request morph's into can the next update of MintMenu, include the ability to edit the "Generic Name", so I don't have to go to two places to make the necessary edits.

I can't be alone in having my Favourites set to two columns and finding that the default name for "Chromium Web Browser" is too long to display, as is "Page Layout (Development)", the Generic Name for "Scribus".
The launcher editor is part of the MATE desktop, you'd have to lodge the request with them, I'm not going to roll our own version of that just for that feature. I doubt they'll change it though, because the favorites pane of mintmenu is probably the only thing displaying the GenericName anywhere in the desktop, at least I cannot think of anything else.

What I will be adding is an option to configure the width of the applications/favorites plugin (there already is one, but it's not exposed in the Preferences), so that might be the easier solution to your problem.
NorfolkGreg

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by NorfolkGreg »

Hi,
gm10 wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:53 pm Flexibility is good where it makes sense, I'll have to be careful not to make this too complicated. Can't say yet what I'll end up doing here. But theoretically we could make the subtext optional and if it's shown, have it optionally be the comment.
...
The launcher editor is part of the MATE desktop, you'd have to lodge the request with them, I'm not going to roll our own version of that just for that feature. I doubt they'll change it though, because the favorites pane of mintmenu is probably the only thing displaying the GenericName anywhere in the desktop, at least I cannot think of anything else.
My request reflects my naivety and lack of understanding of all its implications and impacts. Now I understand the limitations you and all the other teams that pull Mint together. I'm happy to let my suggestion lie on the table.

As you say, I haven't found anywhere else the GenericName is used on the desktop so, in that sense, the "Favourites" pane is a bit of an odd-ball.

Indeed, the "All Applications" part of the menu has facilities within the GUI that does allow the user to come up with customised "Menus", "Items" and "Comments" (if only appearance of the tooltips was under greater user control). In other words the three levels of classification and description that I was hoping to see controllable within the "Favourites" pane exists there.

Perhaps my request should have said all the Favourites pane really needs is to use the same three fields, but just display them differently and with bigger icons. Oh no! Another idea! I think it's definitely time to close this topic down and declare it solved to my satisfaction!

Thanks for your time reading my ramblings!
gm10

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by gm10 »

NorfolkGreg wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:30 pm Indeed, the "All Applications" part of the menu has facilities within the GUI that does allow the user to come up with customised "Menus", "Items" and "Comments" (if only appearance of the tooltips was under greater user control). In other words the three levels of classification and description that I was hoping to see controllable within the "Favourites" pane exists there.
Now you've got me confused. What three levels? The Applications listing only shows the Name and optionally the Comment, doesn't it?

As I said, the tooltips are buggy and will be fixed and receive a toggle.
NorfolkGreg wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:30 pm Perhaps my request should have said all the Favourites pane really needs is to use the same three fields, but just display them differently and with bigger icons. Oh no! Another idea! I think it's definitely time to close this topic down and declare it solved to my satisfaction!
The icon size for the Favorites pane is already user configurable though.
NorfolkGreg

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments

Post by NorfolkGreg »

gm10 wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:16 pmNow you've got me confused. What three levels? The Applications listing only shows the Name and optionally the Comment, doesn't it?
On the Favourites pane you are presented with applications displayed with three fields/levels of description:
* Generic Type
* Name
* Comment (Tooltip Description)

On the All Applications pane you you are presented with a different three levels of description (each selected on the image below):
* Menus
* Items (Application Name)
* Comment (Tooltip Description)
Selection_001.png
Under All Applications, the user can easily create a menu heirarchy that reflects their own classification of the applications on their computer within the MintMenu GUI.

However, when configuring the Favourites pane you have to go outside the MintMenu GUI to create the or edit the "GenericName" field, the top level of the hierarchy on that pane.

That latest thought of mine questions why The Favourites pane couldn't abandon the use of "GenericName" and use the "Menus" field from the All Applications pane instead. That way you don't need "switch to name" procedure if the "GenericName" field is blank (which can get a bit crazy when you use the "Swap name and generic name" option).

(And I, for example, could move the several web browsers and text editors to special "Menus" on the All Applications pane with names "Web Browser" and "Text Editor" so on my Favourites pane those generic app types would show on the Top Level heading for those items.)

I suppose you could argue that the Favourites "Generic Type" field can be thought of as a sub-division of Menu in a four level hierarchy that runs from:
* Menus (Only available to display under "All Applications")
* Generic Type (Only available to display under "Favourites")
* Application Name
* Comment

Of course, this doesn't take account of some of the stuff you told me about having to work within the Desktop team parameters, but from a simple user of the menu's perspective it makes sense (at least, it does to me! :) )
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Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments [SOLVED]

Post by absque fenestris »

@ NorfolkGreg
Did you actually realize that I said exactly the same thing a few entries above?

:lol: :lol: :lol:
+
:lol: :lol: :lol:
gm10

Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments [SOLVED]

Post by gm10 »

I understand about the Menu instead of Generic Name labeling, although I'm not convinced (but then I'm not a fan of the whole "generic name" thing in the first place so that's my bias). I'll consider it should I do anything about the naming at all. ;)
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Re: MintMenu Favourites - Generic, Name, Comments [SOLVED]

Post by absque fenestris »

gm10 wrote: Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:49 pm I understand about the Menu instead of Generic Name labeling, although I'm not convinced (but then I'm not a fan of the whole "generic name" thing in the first place so that's my bias). I'll consider it should I do anything about the naming at all. ;)
These strange names are even stranger when you work in a non-English system.
Especially Caja: this is the data management application in Mate and Caja is what you talk about when Mate is the desktop you use.
... and please explain to a Mac user what data management is.
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