Looking for reassurance - MATE from UbuntuMATE

[ericmarceau]

Given the abusive approach being taken by Canonical in forcing 'snap' packages on end users, which has the consequence of taking complete, single-GUI (synaptic) control over the complete package install process, and even overriding our ability to lock those packages at a specified version (i.e freeze all Chromium updates, because of frequency and size), I am being force to look at other distros that allow me to continue my experience with Ubuntu ... but a 1 step removed, which is my understanding of Mint being a derivative of Ubuntu. I also endorse the stance Mint has taken to not incorporate the snap framework.

I would very much prefer to avoid the Debian approach for Distro installs (preferring Ubuntu's), and I did look at Mint once before at least a decade ago.

For that reason, with more experience under my belt, and as a last check before adoption of Mint, can someone please confirm that
1) all features of the UbuntuMATE desktop interraction are available to me if I install MATE as my Desktop Environment, and
2) that I can choose MATE as the only environment installed during the installation process ?

Specifically, will I be able to reproduce my current desktop Look and Feel, per the attached image ?

I use that same background as my Boot Splash and Login backgrounds (adding my own tweak of the wordmark for UbuntuMATE, which will be updated to reflect my adoption of LinuxMINT.

I really need this peace of mind before proceeding.

BTW, something I recently discovered, keeping all which is normally on my Desktop in the folder called Alt__Desktop, and opening that folder maximized when I need to delve into it, seems to make the overall GUI experience more responsive!

[xenopeek]

You select the desktop environment when you download the installation ISO: https://linuxmint.com/download.php. If you download the MATE edition, that's what you're getting.

Linux Mint MATE default to using one panel but if you want a panel at top and bottom of the screen, you can add a panel to make that so. It ships with the mintMenu menu applet but you can change to the default MATE menu applet like looks to be in your screenshot. I think any tweaking you did on UbuntuMATE will be available on Linux Mint MATE.

Three differences are that:
- Linux Mint only uses Ubuntu LTS release so until Ubuntu 22.04 all new releases of Linux Mint are based on Ubuntu 20.04. Every 6 months there is a minor release you can easily upgrade to (through Update Manager) if you want to. Such minor releases generally bring a new version of Linux Mint developed software and (if available in time) also new versions of MATE desktop software.
- Linux Mint develop some programs cross-desktop environment, the so-called XApps. These include programs like Xed text editor which on Linux Mint MATE replaces Pluma. You can still install Pluma of course if you prefer. Just to be aware there will be some differences in default installed applications.
- Linux Mint uses its own Slick Greeter on top of LightDM as the display manager. This may likely be a different greeter than is used by UbuntuMATE. You can install another of course if you prefer.

So some differences from UbuntuMATE but I think all you want to customize can be done and maybe you will come to appreciate some swapped out default programs.

[Moonstone Man]

I really need this peace of mind before proceeding.

The best way to get that is to try LM on live media, and check out the features you feel you really need.

[ajgreeny]

Whilst I agree with you about the forced snaps and then their forced upgrades, the complete removal of all snaps is certainly possible; I have done so on my Xubuntu install, and I then use chromium from the .dev PPA.

Everything works well so that could be another pathway for you to use.

Remove the snapd package along with the snaps you currently have and give it a try, or just make the switch to Mint and enjoy!

[ericmarceau]

[response to ajgreeny]

I appreciate your identifying that workaround and confirming that it is workable today.

Staying with anything Ubuntu is a NO-GO, because if Conical is intent on pushing their "snap" approach, sooner or later, there will be no choice, the option to continue with Ubuntu without "snap" will imply no accessibility to any of the packages from Ubuntu repositories other than thru snap (I might suggest this is likely since large organizations like to leverage their influence regarding what will be incorporated as baseline, versus demoted to ppa's), which means my preferred installation architecture will become incomplete, disfunctional, and unusable.

For that reason, even though I had just finalized what was to be my final Distro/DM/package installation, I am forced to redo all that for a LinuxMint implementation, although, I believe that if Mint continues to rely on Ubuntu rather than Debian directly, it too will find itself in that projected broken state. I do hope that before that happens, Mint does re-direct its SOURCING efforts to a more Debian-direct packaging (assuming that Debian itself keeps its distance from snap; here I fear a situation similar to primacy of systemd evolving), while rolling in patches to Debian from Ubuntu enhancements that reinforce the LTS approach, which is why I originally chose Ubuntu rather than Debian.

[ericmarceau]

[reply to xenopeek]

Thank you very much! Your comments were extremely helpful in making my very difficult decision easier.

I will be doing an tryout of LinuxMint by installing it on one of my 4 internal disks (120 GB, "Mini") intended for just that purpose.

I'll go thru the sequence I've documented https://github.com/ericmarceau-rogers/H ... 8634f4e131 and update it with tweaks adapted to LinuxMint. Hopefully, that will work out well and that it shouldn't be too painful.

Would you be able to clarify if the MATE environment is incorporated directly from the MATE team, or is it adopted/replicated from the Ubuntu master source? This won't stop me, but I want to understand the "lay of the land".

Being limited to LTS versions is not a restriction for me. By personal choice, I have preferred to only migrate from LTS to LTS, having experienced one disastrous attempt at doing otherwise. I have no intention of repeating that.

I'm curious about you having raised the XApps topic. I will research that for scope and advantages. I really want tools that have maximum portability, which is why I have stuck with the Mozilla Firefox/Thunderbird combo, even though Chrome/Chromium offers some interesting features/advantages. As for editors, only text editor for me will ever be "vi", NOT "vim" ... so I am really not looking for alternates to Pluma.

I was about to delve into theming for my GRUB2 configuration, so this may be an optimum time to check out a different distro.


Off-topic, I prefer to have update-grub not look for installations on other disks so my /etc/default/grub file has the following line:

Code: Select all

GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER="true"

, and I select my boot disk thru the BIOS boot interrupt.

[ericmarceau]

[reply to Kadaitcha Man]

Your reply is, of course, the only sure way to guarantee that I don't parachute into the middle of a minefield!

I plan to do a full install on a disk dedicated to distro tryouts.

Thank you very much for reponding.

[Moonstone Man]

Thank you very much for reponding.

No worries, cobber. I'm sure you won't be parachuting into a mine field. Good luck.

[MartyMint]

...it too will find itself in that projected broken state.

Ubuntu is not broken.

Pearl-clutching about snap packages is bordering on hysteria.
It's practically at the level of the "PAE Kernel Lunacy" of a few years ago...when there was a mad rush to patch perfectly working kernels, because people "felt" they had a unicorn PAE machine....and in doing so, murdered many perfectly working systems.


Breathe into a paper bag. Everything is fine.

[xenopeek]

Would you be able to clarify if the MATE environment is incorporated directly from the MATE team, or is it adopted/replicated from the Ubuntu master source?

The MATE packages don't come from Ubuntu. Packaging for Linux Mint is done by monsta; he's on the MATE team https://mate-desktop.org/team/ and on the Linux Mint team.

[ericmarceau]

All the advice was helpful. I did install Linux Mint on a separate disk.

In the end, I opted to stay with UbuntuMATE (for now at least ).

That decision was based more on a personal feeling of the "vibe" I got from the environment, rather than on any impartial technical comparative analysis.

In French, we have a saying which translates as "Tastes and colours ... no discussion is possible!.
Thank you all.

[Moonstone Man]

In French, we have a saying which translates as "Tastes and colours ... no discussion is possible!.

In English, we have a single word for that. Ineffable.