Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

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deepakdeshp
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Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by deepakdeshp » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:34 am

Hello,
My system runs 244 processes with just the terminal running and freshly booted? Is it more bloated than Windows 10? Because Win 10 takes lesser time to boot

Code: Select all

ps -e|wc -l
244

Code: Select all

inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: mint-18-uma Kernel: 4.8.0-34-generic x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 5.4.0)
           Desktop: Cinnamon 3.2.7 (Gtk 3.18.9-1ubuntu3.2)
           Distro: Linux Mint 18.1 Serena
Machine:   System: Hewlett-Packard product: HP Notebook v: Type1ProductConfigId
           Mobo: Hewlett-Packard model: 80CC v: 99.50
           Bios: Insyde v: F.22 date: 07/25/2016
CPU:       Quad core AMD A8-7410 APU with AMD Radeon R5 Graphics (-MCP-) cache: 8192 KB
           flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm) bmips: 17567
           clock speeds: max: 2200 MHz 1: 1000 MHz 2: 1000 MHz 3: 2200 MHz
           4: 1300 MHz
Graphics:  Card-1: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Mullins [Radeon R4/R5 Graphics]
           bus-ID: 00:01.0
           Card-2: Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Sun XT [Radeon HD 8670A/8670M/8690M / R5 M330]
           bus-ID: 01:00.0
           Display Server: X.Org 1.18.4 drivers: ati,radeon (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: 1366x768@60.32hz
           GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on AMD MULLINS (DRM 2.46.0 / 4.8.0-34-generic, LLVM 3.8.0)
           GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 12.0.6 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card-1 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD] FCH Azalia Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:14.2
           Card-2 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] Kabini HDMI/DP Audio
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:01.1
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.8.0-34-generic
Network:   Card-1: Realtek RTL8723BE PCIe Wireless Network Adapter
           driver: rtl8723be port: 3000 bus-ID: 02:00.0
           IF: wlo1 state: up mac: <filter>
           Card-2: Realtek RTL8101/2/6E PCI Express Fast/Gigabit Ethernet controller
           driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI port: 2000 bus-ID: 03:00.0
           IF: enp3s0 state: down mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 500.1GB (37.3% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: HGST_HTS545050A7 size: 500.1GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 61G used: 28G (50%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda7
           ID-2: swap-1 size: 5.35GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap dev: /dev/sda8
RAID:      No RAID devices: /proc/mdstat, md_mod kernel module present
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 42.0C mobo: 20.0C gpu: N/A,42.0
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 242 Uptime: 14 min Memory: 1423.0/3392.5MB
           Init: systemd runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 5.4.0
           Client: Shell (bash 4.3.461) inxi: 2.2.35 

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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by jimallyn » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:19 am

Well, compared to XFCE, which only shows 184 processes running, I suppose you could say that Cinnamon is bloated. But what really matters is: does it work for you? Does it do the functions you need to do, and does it do them fast enough?
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by chrisuk » Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:50 am

IMHO:

I've posted about this before...I think it's a combination of Ubuntu and Cinnamon that seems to use/need more memory and processes - the Ubuntu base being the main culprit. I'm now a fan of LMDE (2) MATE - After boot (approx. 29 secs, but not using systemd): 158 processes and 385mb memory used... which means it also runs fine on older hardware that I used to need Antix/MX Linux to run properly.

So I'd say the answer to your question is; "Yes", whether it matters to you is another matter... some seem to be more concerned with how the Desktop looks, rather than how it performs, others want the opposite, some want something in between. For me, my computers are tools - I want them to do the jobs I need as quickly as I need them to. I don't want the Desktop to look ugly, but I don't need animations and other flashy effects (they look nice at first, but you soon forget about them).
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by deepakdeshp » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:30 am

jimallyn wrote:Well, compared to XFCE, which only shows 184 processes running, I suppose you could say that Cinnamon is bloated. But what really matters is: does it work for you? Does it do the functions you need to do, and does it do them fast enough?
It uses 780 MB memory just after booting. Yes it works for me, and I like it It looks pretty.

It runs the vmware Ubuntu 16.04 server well.
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by Moem » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:34 am

I prefer to use the more positive terms 'shapely' and 'curvy'. :lol:
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by deepakdeshp » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:10 am

Moem wrote:I prefer to use the more positive terms 'shapely' and 'curvy'. :lol:
:)
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by ColdBoot » Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:22 am

Nope... no bloat. I had almost exactly the same figures on boot(~440MB RAM use) from Xubuntu 14.04 x64 with nVidia proprietary drivers in use.

Image

P.S. only 167 processes running after boot so, 244 is probably OP's specific.
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by deepakdeshp » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:10 am

As the version number increases, the bells and whistles increase, so does the iso size. And it is natural that it will require more muscle too
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by ColdBoot » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:41 pm

It is generally true, but if you consider that Cinnamon has much more blows and whistles OOTB when compared to XFCE, it comes across as better optimized DE. When I install LAMP and other tools that I need, the figures will jump up on my machine as well. Meanwhile, I'll close Chrome to make a screen shot, so these figures are not after boot but after some activity:

Image

As you can see, they are the same. You might be running too many things in the background.
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by ColdBoot » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:14 am

On the other hand, I have likewise noticed increased number of processes after suspend and with each suspend the number increases. RAM is almost at the same level, though...

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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by mideal » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:23 am

Whenever I hear "Windows 10 boots fast" I'm tempted to say "are you sure it's booting or does it only awake?
And remember that before Win10 you could really watch processes like adding something to the task bar as it happened and the desktop wasn't ready to use.
Now you only (normally) see the tiles come up, which makes believe Win 10 is done with its boot process while many things happen in the background.
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by Pjotr » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:02 am

mideal wrote:Whenever I hear "Windows 10 boots fast" I'm tempted to say "are you sure it's booting or does it only awake?
Indeed. Windows 10 has a "Fast Startup" feature, which is enabled by default. It makes Windows 10 enter a state of hibernation when "shutting down", so that booting up seems very fast.

So for a complete and accurate comparison (as the Germans say: gründlich und halbwegs brauchbar), one should disable that Fast Startup feature and measure the boot time needed to get a fully functional desktop (which means: with all the startup applications activated). :mrgreen:
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by mideal » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:05 am

Pjotr wrote:disable that Fast Startup feature and measure the boot time needed to get a fully functional desktop (which means: with all the startup applications activated). :mrgreen:
and if you click on something e.g. opening a simple old(!) 1kb text file gets you a reaction.
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by Penn » Mon Mar 13, 2017 9:58 am

The Ubuntu base is bloated. Two similar (but not identical) systems using Cinnamon.

LMDE2
145 processes - 360MB ram

Mint 18.1
174 processes - 730MB ram

Not to mention, the memory increases when running the same programs. Most but not all programs use more memory in Ubuntu. The monitor I used at the time I noticed this measured memory in percentages and if something used 7% additional memory in LMDE to run it would usually use 12 to 14% in the Ubuntu base.

Some time ago someone posted processor and memory usage of the 4 DEs used by Mint (Ubuntu base). It might not be on this board that it was posted since a search lasting less than 5 minutes I didn't find it. At that time (somewhere around 17.1) Cinnamon did use a bit more memory than Mate but not much more unlike previous versions of Cinnamon which used considerably more (according to the tester). However, if I recall correctly, due to graphics needs Cinnamon was more CPU hungry. In fact I have started to wonder from seeing peoples comments after trying both if maybe when recommending between those two desktops to a new user maybe we should start paying less attention to their memory and more to their graphics card when it comes to the comparison between those two.

KDE was the bloated one in that persons tests however I've heard with KDE's Plasma 5 it isn't quite as bloated. Of course, by design XFCE uses the least of resources. Also note those tests were done with the default installs not altered so extra bells and whistles for Cinnamon and Kindergarten Desktop Environment may well account for a lot of the extra resources. I turn off all desktop effects so that might account for a bit of a decrease in Cinnamon resource usage for me.

Don't get all bunched up over the joke KDE enthusiasts. Yes, I know the "K" in KDE doesn't really stand for kindergarten but when I took it for a test drive if felt to me it was geared toward children. After thinking that I heard it was used in education systems. Go figure. I actually think if I spent time with it I'd like it (not more, but still like) but Cinnamon was a better fit for me when I started.

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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by ColdBoot » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:45 am

Penn wrote:The Ubuntu base is bloated. Two similar (but not identical) systems using Cinnamon.

LMDE2
145 processes - 360MB ram

Mint 18.1
174 processes - 730MB ram
Did you try to see the number of processes after suspend in LMDE? I'm beginning to think that's what OP observed. I'll try to compare the process lists before and after suspend to see which processes where started and whether they pertain to Cinnamon or to kernel/system/graphics.
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by Penn » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:00 pm

ColdBoot wrote:
Penn wrote:The Ubuntu base is bloated. Two similar (but not identical) systems using Cinnamon.

LMDE2
145 processes - 360MB ram

Mint 18.1
174 processes - 730MB ram
Did you try to see the number of processes after suspend in LMDE? I'm beginning to think that's what OP observed. I'll try to compare the process lists before and after suspend to see which processes where started and whether they pertain to Cinnamon or to kernel/system/graphics.
Whoa, you are right. I just checked the processes on the 18.1 machine after some usage and it was at 186 then suspend and wake now it is at 222. I don't think it is Cinnamon since the LMDE2 machine has been up for 2 days and has been in and out of suspend multiple times and even with a terminal window and this browser window open it is only at 154. So the differences are the base and kernel unless the 18.1 version of Cinnamon 3.2 has more differences than I would expect from LMDE2's. But I have noticed that sometimes (not always) when LMDE2 comes back from suspend the memory usage is a bit lower than when it went into suspend (never checked processes).

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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by chrisuk » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:22 pm

I don't think the increased count after sleep is kernel or distro specific - I think it's the same on all distros/kernels... it's just how the sleep/resume process is handled. Check the process count before and after resume, then check again a few minutes later... it returns to the lower number that it was before sleep.
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by ColdBoot » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:03 pm

chrisuk wrote:I don't think the increased count after sleep is kernel or distro specific - I think it's the same on all distros/kernels... it's just how the sleep/resume process is handled. Check the process count before and after resume, then check again a few minutes later... it returns to the lower number that it was before sleep.
It is true, when given some time these extra processes, induced by suspend, are stoped. From 270 to 156 on my machine. No need to be alarmed or refrain from using suspend.

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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by linuxviolin » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:46 pm

Hum, for comparison, I looked in Manjaro and I had:

Code: Select all

ps -e|wc -l
160
after several resumes after hibernation then several hours of use and Firefox with about ten tabs open...

So, this could be a Mint problem? :?:
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Re: Is Cinnamon Mint 18.1 bloated?

Post by Penn » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:13 pm

linuxviolin wrote:Hum, for comparison, I looked in Manjaro and I had:
ps -e|wc -l
160
after several resumes after hibernation then several hours of use and Firefox with about ten tabs open...

So, this could be a Mint problem? :?:
I guess you either didn't notice or are just disregarding the comments from the 2 of us who are using LMDE (the "M" does stand for Mint).
I don't think it is Cinnamon since the LMDE2 machine has been up for 2 days and has been in and out of suspend multiple times and even with a terminal window and this browser window open it is only at 154.
154 processes. If I close all running programs after those 2 days my memory might be as high as 700+MB (as said, fresh boot is about half that) from the usual build up I've seen from all distros. During those 2 days I did a wide variety of activities which I would think cover a normal spectrum of usage for most people.

The way I ended up on LMDE is that slow building up of memory on Ubuntu base would go well over 1GB and I'd start getting display errors on almost all programs and watching videos was impossible at that point on this machine. Debian an LMDE are the only 2 distros I tried that are usable after a few hours to a few days of what is normal use for me. That includes multiple versions of Ubuntu, multiple DEs in Mint, Fedora and a Fedora based distro (don't remember which) and Elementary. Fedora based and Elementary take much longer to reach an unusable level, possibly due to lower initial fresh boot resources, but they do reach that point within a day or two. Even now on the 18.1 install on another machine, I can boot it and not use it for a day or 2 without any sleep options (just screen lock) and it is still lagging and poor running if I try to use it unless I reboot.

I didn't try Manjaro so I don't know about the memory build up there so maybe you would have a point about its usage in that area but considering all I personally saw with my experiences with all those distros I tried, I don't think the issue is Mint.

The 2 times I've resumed this machine from suspend since Chris made his comment about initial process spike after resume I have noticed LMDE does spike in number of processes immediately after resume but settles back down to the 150 neighborhood after a few minutes and the memory on resume never spikes.

So, yeah, my experience tells me the issue is the Ubuntu base and true Ubuntu but your mileage may vary.

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