Nemo: weird and puzzling sort order - SOLVED

Please post suggestions for improvement of Cinnamon on:
https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon
Forum rules
Before you post read how to get help. Topics in this forum are automatically closed 6 months after creation.
Locked
Mintstant Karma
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:01 pm

Nemo: weird and puzzling sort order - SOLVED

Post by Mintstant Karma »

Hello all,

For a few weeks I've been taking Linux Mint 19 for a spin by running it live from a flash drive, and I'm considering installing it to my SSD. But there's a very strange behavior that could be a deal-breaker. In Nemo 3.8.5, I cannot get my folders and files to sort by name in simple alphabetical order! This is true whether I'm in list view or icon view, and the behavior is maddeningly consistent in all my subfolders.

What happens is that a set of folders are grouped alphabetically, but not all the folders. A second set appears below that first set, also sorted alphabetically. No folder appears in both lists. It's as if the software just randomly assigned every folder to one of two sets (always two). Next, a set of files appears alphabetically. And then below that, another set of files appears alphabetically. Like the folders, no file is in both sets, they're just split into two groups for some bizarre reason. So I often have to go through both groups of folders or files to find the item I'm looking for!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Here are two screenshots showing my actual folders and files, sorted by name. I'll use list view because it's easier to see that way.
Screenshot from 2019-01-11 21-38-48.png
Notice roughly halfway down the list it transitions from Z back to A for the start of the second set. Next the files appear. I'm showing only the end of the first group and the beginning of the second:
Screenshot from 2019-01-11 21-40-54.png
OMG I just figured it out! Now that I've gone to all this trouble and have forced myself to focus on just the beginnings of the item names, I realize the top set is capitalized letters and the bottom set is lower case! I've scratched my head over this for many days, and just as I'm about to ask for help I figure it out. :lol: :!: :oops:

Well, I might as well post this anyway, as it could help someone else.

But I do have one question: Is there any way to tell Nemo to ignore the case and just put them all together? I certainly don't mind changing them but I'm just curious.
Last edited by LockBot on Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 6 months after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
User avatar
smurphos
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8498
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 am
Location: Irish Brit in Portugal
Contact:

Re: Nemo: weird and puzzling sort order

Post by smurphos »

Interesting - I don't see the same in Mint 19.1 Nemo 4.0.6 or in Mint 19's Nemo 3.8.6

They are sorted alphabetically but not grouped for me - if there are identical file names one capitalised the lower case one is listed first, but otherwise they are properly ordered.

The only grouping option in the preferences is to sort folders before files. I can't see anything hidden away in dconf that would produce what you are seeing.

Can you report the output of gsettings list-recursively org.nemo and also locale. That might provide a clue. Copy the terminal output and paste into your reply in between [code][/code] tags.
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.
Mintstant Karma
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:01 pm

Re: Nemo: weird and puzzling sort order

Post by Mintstant Karma »

Hmph, yeah that is interesting. Could that have been a bug in my version of Nemo, since both of yours are newer? Then again, Nemo's been around for several years -- even my version isn't that old. You'd think they would have caught that long ago.

My other thought is: could it be something unique to a live environment? That wouldn't make sense to me, but I'm just considering anything I can think of.

OK, I entered that command and here's the output. That was interesting. I am not very familiar with terminal commands. I can figure out some of this data from context and common sense, but I might be overlooking that clue you were hoping for. I'll look again after I've had a good night's sleep.

Code: Select all

mint@mint:~$ gsettings list-recursively org.nemo
org.nemo.compact-view default-zoom-level 'standard'
org.nemo.compact-view all-columns-have-same-width false
org.nemo.preferences tabs-open-position 'after-current-tab'
org.nemo.preferences default-folder-viewer 'icon-view'
org.nemo.preferences show-image-thumbnails 'local-only'
org.nemo.preferences show-computer-icon-toolbar false
org.nemo.preferences context-menus-show-all-actions false
org.nemo.preferences click-double-parent-folder false
org.nemo.preferences show-hidden-files false
org.nemo.preferences show-icon-view-icon-toolbar true
org.nemo.preferences show-home-icon-toolbar false
org.nemo.preferences desktop-is-home-dir false
org.nemo.preferences never-queue-file-ops false
org.nemo.preferences quick-renames-with-pause-in-between false
org.nemo.preferences swap-trash-delete false
org.nemo.preferences date-format 'locale'
org.nemo.preferences show-up-icon-toolbar true
org.nemo.preferences mouse-use-extra-buttons true
org.nemo.preferences always-use-browser true
org.nemo.preferences close-device-view-on-device-eject false
org.nemo.preferences tooltips-show-file-type false
org.nemo.preferences tooltips-on-desktop false
org.nemo.preferences executable-text-activation 'ask'
org.nemo.preferences show-new-folder-icon-toolbar false
org.nemo.preferences show-directory-item-counts 'local-only'
org.nemo.preferences sort-directories-first true
org.nemo.preferences mouse-forward-button 9
org.nemo.preferences show-places-in-to-menus true
org.nemo.preferences thumbnail-limit uint64 4294967295
org.nemo.preferences ignore-view-metadata false
org.nemo.preferences last-server-connect-method 2
org.nemo.preferences show-reload-icon-toolbar false
org.nemo.preferences size-prefixes 'base-10'
org.nemo.preferences tooltips-show-access-date false
org.nemo.preferences show-search-icon-toolbar true
org.nemo.preferences show-edit-icon-toolbar true
org.nemo.preferences tooltips-show-mod-date false
org.nemo.preferences disable-menu-warning false
org.nemo.preferences enable-delete true
org.nemo.preferences bulk-rename-tool @ay []
org.nemo.preferences show-open-in-terminal-toolbar false
org.nemo.preferences confirm-trash true
org.nemo.preferences show-advanced-permissions false
org.nemo.preferences tooltips-in-icon-view false
org.nemo.preferences saved-searches @as []
org.nemo.preferences show-previous-icon-toolbar true
org.nemo.preferences mouse-back-button 8
org.nemo.preferences click-policy 'double'
org.nemo.preferences show-root-warning true
org.nemo.preferences default-sort-in-reverse-order false
org.nemo.preferences show-full-path-titles false
org.nemo.preferences show-compact-view-icon-toolbar true
org.nemo.preferences show-location-entry false
org.nemo.preferences show-list-view-icon-toolbar true
org.nemo.preferences show-next-icon-toolbar true
org.nemo.preferences show-bookmarks-in-to-menus true
org.nemo.preferences default-sort-order 'name'
org.nemo.preferences tooltips-show-path false
org.nemo.preferences tooltips-in-list-view false
org.nemo.preferences start-with-dual-pane false
org.nemo.window-state side-pane-view 'places'
org.nemo.window-state devices-expanded true
org.nemo.window-state sidebar-width 148
org.nemo.window-state start-with-menu-bar true
org.nemo.window-state start-with-status-bar true
org.nemo.window-state my-computer-expanded true
org.nemo.window-state geometry ''
org.nemo.window-state network-expanded true
org.nemo.window-state start-with-toolbar true
org.nemo.window-state sidebar-bookmark-breakpoint 5
org.nemo.window-state maximized true
org.nemo.window-state bookmarks-expanded true
org.nemo.window-state start-with-sidebar true
org.nemo.window-state start-with-location-bar true
org.nemo.icon-view captions ['none', 'size', 'date_modified']
org.nemo.icon-view thumbnail-size 64
org.nemo.icon-view default-zoom-level 'standard'
org.nemo.icon-view default-use-tighter-layout false
org.nemo.icon-view labels-beside-icons false
org.nemo.icon-view text-ellipsis-limit ['3']
org.nemo.sidebar-panels.tree show-only-directories true
org.nemo.desktop text-ellipsis-limit 2
org.nemo.desktop show-desktop-icons true
org.nemo.desktop ignored-desktop-handlers ['conky']
org.nemo.desktop background-fade true
org.nemo.desktop computer-icon-visible true
org.nemo.desktop use-desktop-grid true
org.nemo.desktop horizontal-grid-adjust 1.0
org.nemo.desktop desktop-layout 'true::false'
org.nemo.desktop home-icon-visible true
org.nemo.desktop vertical-grid-adjust 1.0
org.nemo.desktop trash-icon-visible false
org.nemo.desktop network-icon-visible false
org.nemo.desktop show-orphaned-desktop-icons true
org.nemo.desktop font 'Noto Sans 10'
org.nemo.desktop volumes-visible true
org.nemo.list-view default-visible-columns ['name', 'size', 'type', 'date_modified']
org.nemo.list-view default-zoom-level 'smaller'
org.nemo.list-view search-visible-columns ['name', 'size', 'type', 'where']
org.nemo.list-view default-column-order ['name', 'size', 'type', 'date_modified']
mint@mint:~$ 

And here's the output of the other command. I'm afraid I can't glean anything from this, but maybe it's of use to you or someone else.

mint@mint:~$ locale
LANG=C.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=
LC_CTYPE="C.UTF-8"
LC_NUMERIC="C.UTF-8"
LC_TIME="C.UTF-8"
LC_COLLATE="C.UTF-8"
LC_MONETARY="C.UTF-8"
LC_MESSAGES="C.UTF-8"
LC_PAPER="C.UTF-8"
LC_NAME="C.UTF-8"
LC_ADDRESS="C.UTF-8"
LC_TELEPHONE="C.UTF-8"
LC_MEASUREMENT="C.UTF-8"
LC_IDENTIFICATION="C.UTF-8"
LC_ALL=
mint@mint:~$
User avatar
smurphos
Level 18
Level 18
Posts: 8498
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:18 am
Location: Irish Brit in Portugal
Contact:

Re: Nemo: weird and puzzling sort order

Post by smurphos »

Thanks. The first command is just a dump of the nemo settings. The second is the report of the locale (i.e the language and regional settings) - and I think you are right about it being a live-session issue.

C.UTF-8 is POSIX standards-compliant default locale and it's "alphabetical" sorting is apparently by Unicode.

https://community.hpe.com/t5/General/Di ... -p/4418194

During installation you set your region and language and end up with something like this and proper sorting as per your languages conventions.

Code: Select all

LANG=en_GB.UTF-8
LANGUAGE=en_GB
LC_CTYPE="en_GB.UTF-8"
LC_NUMERIC=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_TIME=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_COLLATE="en_GB.UTF-8"
LC_MONETARY=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_MESSAGES="en_GB.UTF-8"
LC_PAPER=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_NAME=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_ADDRESS=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_TELEPHONE=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_MEASUREMENT=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_IDENTIFICATION=en_GB.UTF-8
LC_ALL=
For custom Nemo actions, useful scripts for the Cinnamon desktop, and Cinnamox themes visit my Github pages.
Mintstant Karma
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 314
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:01 pm

Re: Nemo: weird and puzzling sort order

Post by Mintstant Karma »

Oh, that's fascinating! Wow

That all sounds very plausible. It was pure dumb luck that I was right about the live environment, and your explanation really makes sense. I then dug through the preferences to see if I could change the setting to "LANG=en_GB.UTF-8" but I didn't see anything. So I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet and suffer with it until I install Linux Mint. I'm getting closer and closer to doing so as I learn about, and eliminate, each quirk that has bothered me. (There haven't been many.)

Great job for knowing how to diagnose my problem and great eye for spotting the apparent solution! Thank you so much! :D
Locked

Return to “Cinnamon”