Cinnamon random lockups for 10-45 seconds

[spoo333]

Re the processors:

computer 1 (low latency kernel desktop)
cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 158
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-9900K CPU @ 3.60GHz

computer 2 (low latency kernel laptop)
cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 166
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10210U CPU @ 1.60GHz

computer 3 (standard kernel laptop)
cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 142
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-10210U CPU @ 1.60GHz

I get that low latency kernels are not supported. Computer 3, running the most recent standard 5.11 kernel, shows exactly the same problems with temporary visual and input lockups. Wouldn't it be relatively safe to assume in that case that the problem is not caused by low-latency kernels?

I've disabled all visual effects on the desktop now. Will let you know if this has an impact.

Going back to mint19.3 and kernel 5.0 was not meant as a serious proposition. I meant to say that I miss the stability of that combo back then.

Speaking of trying other setups. I installed Gnome Desktop on computer 1 (next to Cinnamon) and didn't experience any lockups although I didn't use it for very long as it feels clumsy after Cinnamon.

Another thing I could try is wipe one of the laptops - two of the computers are in constant use and therefore not an option for the experiment - and install Ubuntu Cinnamon Remix edition or whatever it's called. That way I might be able to get more info on the problem?

Thanks for your help SMG!

[spoo333]

Don't know why the forum doesn't display 19.3. I meant Linux Mint nineteen three

[SMG]

I get that low latency kernels are not supported. Computer 3, running the most recent standard 5.11 kernel, shows exactly the same problems with temporary visual and input lockups. Wouldn't it be relatively safe to assume in that case that the problem is not caused by low-latency kernels?

That would be a logical assumption presuming they are running the exact same software.

Quite a while back someone had an issue with what he called micro-freezes. System would be going along and then things would just freeze for a split second or so and then go on. This seemed to happen randomly. He posted a video of his system monitor and I happened to catch that one cpu (cpu8 purple) was spiking to ~90 percent just before the freeze happened. The other cpus were low/normal values. He moved to a newer kernel version (5.8 at the time) and they disappeared.

Here is my observations of the video. I do not know if that might be what you mean by temporary lockups, and I have no idea if the root cause might be similar.

Another thing I could try is wipe one of the laptops - two of the computers are in constant use and therefore not an option for the experiment - and install Ubuntu Cinnamon Remix edition or whatever it's called.

I had to look up that edition as it's the first time I've heard it.

[spoo333]

That would be a logical assumption presuming they are running the exact same software.

Yes all three run exactly the same software except for lowlatency/normal kernel difference and nvidia display drivers on the desktop computer

Quite a while back someone had an issue with what he called micro-freezes. System would be going along and then things would just freeze for a split second or so and then go on. This seemed to happen randomly. He posted a video of his system monitor and I happened to catch that one cpu (cpu8 purple) was spiking to ~90 percent just before the freeze happened. The other cpus were low/normal values. He moved to a newer kernel version (5.8 at the time) and they disappeared.

Here is my observations of the video. I do not know if that might be what you mean by temporary lockups, and I have no idea if the root cause might be similar.

Thanks, had a look. The "lockups" on the computers here never result in any loss of data/input. The system freezes for a minimum of 10 sec, and then usually no later than 50 sec everything is back to normal. Audio always carries on playing in the background. It doesn't feel like a CPU overload at all. I know what those are like particularly with audio recording The lockups in the thread you posted appear very short, however they seem to happen a couple of times within less than 2 minutes. "My" lockups are rare, ie they don't happen in near sequence, but they usually make the system unresponsive for a minimum of 10 seconds.

I could try kernel 5.8, but not very keen since it's no longer supported. Shall i give it a try just to see if that improves the situation?

I've not had a lockup since I've disabled the effects on the desktop computer, however it feels too early to draw any conclusions. Occasionally I go without lockups for hours.

I had to look up that edition as it's the first time I've heard it.

I only tried it briefly about a year ago. I'm not sure we'd get any more insights but perhaps current Ubuntu 21.10 with (current?) Cinnamon on top might exhibit different behaviour.

[SMG]

The system freezes for a minimum of 10 sec, and then usually no later than 50 sec everything is back to normal. Audio always carries on playing in the background.

Yours does sound different than the one in the video. I would have never expected only one CPU could spike like that had I not seen it happen. It was a total fluke that I noticed it happening.

We've had quite a few people post about freezes where the audio keeps playing, but usually in those cases the system does not come back like it does for you. It stays frozen.

I could try kernel 5.8, but not very keen since it's no longer supported. Shall i give it a try just to see if that improves the situation?

No, that was just the newest kernel available at the time of that issue. The 5.11 was not yet available.

I only tried it briefly about a year ago. I'm not sure we'd get any more insights but perhaps current Ubuntu 21.10 with (current?) Cinnamon on top might exhibit different behaviour.

I do not know what conclusions we might be able to draw from it. The same kernels available to it are available through Mint as well.

[spoo333]

Yours does sound different than the one in the video. I would have never expected only one CPU could spike like that had I not seen it happen. It was a total fluke that I noticed it happening.

We've had quite a few people post about freezes where the audio keeps playing, but usually in those cases the system does not come back like it does for you. It stays frozen.

Yes, I can confirm that I've not had a single lockup/freeze so far without the system coming back eventually. Also never any data lost, just inconvenient because of the involuntary pauses.

Today I had my first lockup/freeze since I disabled all effects yesterday. It took about 20 seconds, then everything was back to normal. I guess that means the effects are not to blame and I can switch them back on.

I do not know what conclusions we might be able to draw from it. The same kernels available to it are available through Mint as well.

According to this https://ubuntu.com/blog/whats-new-in-se ... untu-21-10 kernel 5.13 is available in ubuntu 21.10, however I can't find kernel 5.13 in Synaptic. I've tried to install kernels >5.11 via mainline ppa without any luck (nvidia issue), so if you could let me now how I can install kernel 5.13 in Mint 20.2 via Synaptic or command line, that would be great.
Thank you

[SMG]

According to this https://ubuntu.com/blog/whats-new-in-se ... untu-21-10 kernel 5.13 is available in ubuntu 21.10, however I can't find kernel 5.13 in Synaptic. I've tried to install kernels >5.11 via mainline ppa without any luck (nvidia issue), so if you could let me now how I can install kernel 5.13 in Mint 20.2 via Synaptic or command line, that would be great.
Thank you

Install the latest 5.13-oem kernel with sudo apt install linux-oem-20.04c and reboot.

[spoo333]

I ran the command as you suggested and it installed
linux-headers-5.13.0-1017-oem
linux-image-5.13.0-1017-oem
linux-modules-5.13.0-1017-oem
linux-oem-5.13-headers-5.13.0-1017

but it didn't install linux-image-5.13[...]-generic OR linux-image-5.13[...]-lowlatency

When I check the boot menu, I can't see any entry for a 5.13 kernel, generic or lowlatency.

IMG_20211104_165400276.NIGHT.jpg

[SMG]

but it didn't install linux-image-5.13[...]-generic OR linux-image-5.13[...]-lowlatency

I am not aware there is a low-latency version of the OEM kernel. I am only aware of one version available.

When I check the boot menu, I can't see any entry for a 5.13 kernel, generic or lowlatency.

All the others I've helped who installed the 5.13-oem kernel were able to install it with the instructions I gave you. Then when they booted the next time that was the kernel in use because Mint's default is to boot to the highest number installed kernel.

I received inxi output just this morning from someone showing the 5.13.0-17-oem installed.

If you have modified your boot menu to not do that, then I will need more information about your setup to be able to help.

[spoo333]

I am not aware there is a low-latency version of the OEM kernel. I am only aware of one version available.

To clarify: I didn't expect it to install a lowlatency version, but that it appears to have installed neither a generic nor a lowlatency version on the desktop computer. If you check my image above, there is one generic kernel available in the list of low-latency kernels.

However, I tried the same command you suggested on the laptop without low-latency kernels and it installed kernel 5.13 without any problems, therefore there must be some setting (perhaps coming from Ubuntu Studio performance settings?) that blocked the installation of the generic 5.13 kernel. This is odd as I usually install both lowlatency and generic versions of a certain kernel version next to each other, just to be on the safe side. I'll investigate and let you know. Thanks

[SMG]

However, I tried the same command you suggested on the laptop without low-latency kernels and it installed kernel 5.13 without any problems, therefore there must be some setting (perhaps coming from Ubuntu Studio performance settings?) that blocked the installation of the generic 5.13 kernel. This is odd as I usually install both lowlatency and generic versions of a certain kernel version next to each other, just to be on the safe side. I'll investigate and let you know. Thanks

If you have more than one Linux-based distro installed, the kernel options will not change until you run sudo update-grub on the distro which is in control of grub.

I am familiar with Ubuntu Studio being a separate distro install (which may be an incorrect assumption) which would mean you have more than one Linux-based distro installed on the desktop. I do not normally work with grub issues and do not remember which one (first or last) is in control of grub. I just know that if Mint is not in control of grub then any kernel installed to Mint will not show on the menu until grub is updated on the distro that is in control of grub.

[spoo333]

I only have the one Linux Mint 20.2 installed on each of the three computers. What I meant was Ubuntu Studio Control(s), available in Synaptic, which installs a few bits of software that improve any Ubuntu based distribution for audio work, low latency stuff etc.
What is available in Ubuntu Studio (the distribution) is available to add to other Ubuntu based (and other?) distributions.

Screenshot from 2021-11-04 21-00-17.png

Screenshot from 2021-11-04 21-00-49.png

Sorry, my bad, should have been clearer. There is only one distribution on each computer, and it's LM 20.2

[SMG]

I did find this information Ubuntu Studio Controls which indicates there are some system tweaks which can be done (CPU governor and Intel boost) with it.

If you have the same install on all the computers, then the only idea I which comes to mind as to why the 5.13-oem installed on the laptop and not the desktop was perhaps something happened that not all the files were completely downloaded.

I've had people mention they did not see errors, but the results indicated there was no way everything downloaded. The most recent cases I saw like this were two instances where the boot partition filled up and there was no room for all the files. In those cases clearing out old kernels and re-downloading fixed the issue.

[spoo333]

I did find this information Ubuntu Studio Controls which indicates there are some system tweaks which can be done (CPU governor and Intel boost) with it.

Thanks for reading up on Ubuntu Studio Controls.

I've checked via the Linux Kernels menu in Update Manager - kernel 5.13 is installed on all three computers. The screenshot below is from the Desktop computer with low latency kernel + Ubuntu Studio Controls.

Screenshot from 2021-11-04 22-48-53.png

The one computer with the generic kernel does not have Ubuntu Studio Controls installed. It is already running kernel 5.13 and it'll be interesting to see if lockups/freezes will still happen.

The other two computers, the lowlatency kernel ones, both have Ubuntu Studio Controls installed. For some reason the 5.13 kernel is not integrated into the Grub boot menu. Why, I don't know, because other generic kernels have been and are integrated into the Grub menus on those computers as they should be. Perhaps trashing the grub config and then reinstalling Grub might do the trick.

[SMG]

The other two computers, the lowlatency kernel ones, both have Ubuntu Studio Controls installed. For some reason the 5.13 kernel is not integrated into the Grub boot menu. Why, I don't know, because other generic kernels have been and are integrated into the Grub menus on those computers as they should be. Perhaps trashing the grub config and then reinstalling Grub might do the trick.

Try running sudo update-grub on them first. Maybe they need a little "encouragement".

[spoo333]

Hehe, I tried the "encouragement" method on both the low latency laptop and low latency desktop. Below is a screenshot from the desktop comp. As you can see, it finds both generic and low-latency kernels, both not the desired 5.13 kernel Wonder why that is.

Screenshot from 2021-11-04 23-26-02.jpg

Time to trash grub config and re-install?

[spoo333]

Here is the same process on the low-latency laptop. Again, lots of generic and low-latency kernels found, but not 5.13, even though it shows up as installed in Update Manager/Kernels

Screenshot from 2021-11-04 23-33-55.jpg

[SMG]

Hehe, I tried the "encouragement" method on both the low latency laptop and low latency desktop. Below is a screenshot from the desktop comp. As you can see, it finds both generic and low-latency kernels,

And it lists them twice.

You're running btrfs and not ext4?

Time to trash grub config and re-install?

As long as you don't need my help with it.
(I don't have much experience trouble-shooting grub issues.)

[spoo333]

And it lists them twice.

Yes, that's odd isn't it?

You're running btrfs and not ext4?

yes, all systems are BTRFS for snapshot convenience

As long as you don't need my help with it.
(I don't have much experience trouble-shooting grub issues.)

I'll check online if I need help, but I reckon I'll be fine.

Thanks for your help, again, and I'll be checking in sometime over the next few days when I know more about any 5.13 related "Lockup/Freeze" improvements. Fingers crossed

[SMG]

And it lists them twice.

Yes, that's odd isn't it?

It might be how grub-btrfs works. I notice in this closed bug report that person also had each kernel listed twice in the sudo update-grub output.

I noticed the desktop has a line

Code: Select all

Unmount /tmp/grup-btrfs.juiOKMsZU4 . . Success

while the laptop does not. I would presume you have the same version of grub-btrfs on each computer, but maybe not?