Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Please post suggestions for improvement of Cinnamon on:
https://github.com/linuxmint/Cinnamon
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Lolo Uila
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by Lolo Uila »

kmb42vt wrote:
Lolo Uila wrote:On the other hand, MATE is a direct fork of the latest version of Gnome 2 (2.32) and, once released, will be everything that Gnome 2.32 was and more since it will be under constant development. There are plenty of Gnome 2 users who have felt left behind by Gnome.orgs' decisions of late and they rightly should be. So there is a whole lot of effort behind the development MATE to fill the gap that was left behind when Gnome 2 was deprecated. Also, MATE directly runs on Ubuntu and has nothing to do with Gnome 3 or gnome-shell.

Now, none of the DEs offered in Linux Mint 12 or what will be offered in 13 can really be considered "bloatware". Either you run Gnome (Gnome 3/gnome-shell with or without MGSE), Cinnamon (Gnome 3/Cinnamon) or MATE (stands alone). One isn't layered over the other, they're all separate DEs. And I "hear" :D there are also plans to release a separate MATE only edition for those who want strictly a Gnome 2 experience.
If that's so, then why does my system run like crap when I log in to a MATE session. It slows way down.

If what you say is true, then I guess I misunderstood what MATE was, but that still doesn't explain why my system runs so much slower in MATE. I've run Gnome-2 based Linux distros for years, and it's always run great. So what gives with MATE?

And thanks for your help.

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by Joe_Linux »

kmb42vt wrote:
Joe_Linux wrote:Can't get mintupdate to show up on my favorites on the main menu. Here's my alleged code entry:

['firefox.desktop', 'nautilus.desktop', 'synaptic.desktop', 'mintupdate.desktop', 'gnome-terminal.desktop']
Now this is interesting and it might even have to do with Mint Update not auto-starting in MATE.

Anyway, I checked into this and the solution is: Capitalize the U so it reads 'mintUpdate.desktop'. Then it should show up in your menu.
Thanks a lot. It worked.

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by Joe_Linux »

What happened to Places in the Cinnamon menu?

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by z06gal »

Joe_Linux wrote:What happened to Places in the Cinnamon menu?

Mine shows up underneath "System Tools" when I click on the Menu icon :wink:

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by bimsebasse »

Reasoning with rocks #24:
Kevin108 wrote:
bimsebasse wrote:In what way is Gnome Shell a tablet interface?
Because instead of desktop icons or a nice, clean menu activated from the corner, it has big, stupid buttons spread around for you to push with your fingers. It's pretty obvious what it is to most people. It's fine if you like it. It would be great on a tablet, I'm sure, but on my desktop I have no use for it or the similarly-configured Windows 8.
You and a thousand others are repeating this mantra once a day and it probably helps you a lot mentally in some way but so far no one has actually explained how Gnome Shell would be a great tablet interface, or Unity for that matter. Gnome Shell is optimized for keyboard launching and that fact alone makes it obviously not aimed at tablets (I mean other than that there isn't a gnome shell for tablets, isn't one in the making either). Have you ever seen a tablet interface without icon launchers, where you can't even put things on the desktop? You talk about big buttons, where are they?.

Imagine Mint 11 on a tablet: there's a nice menu button, push it, choose submenu and find program, easy. Gnome Shell: you can't do it the easy way pressing the windows key, so you press "Activities", a button no larger than the mint menu button, a bit thinner if anything, then you need to press Applications (a button no larger...) and then you can choose to get a list of all programs or a filter option on the right. Which method is easier touchscreen only? Mint 11. Now let's switch to a desktop with a keyboard. Gnome Shell: launch any program or open any home folder you need with a combination of windowskey+2-3-4 letters+enter, easy. In Mint 11, grab your mouse, click on Menu, find the menu category, expand, in the submenu find what you need, click again, takes longer, less easy. There are no panel or desktop icon shortcuts in Gnome Shell. Why? Because the keyboard launching described above takes the same amount of time it takes to move the mouse to an icon an click on it, so shortcuts aren't necessary. Is this tablet friendly? Obviously not, tablet interfaces strives to make do without a keyboard, they are pulling in the opposite direction of Gnome Shell. Please just some of you, do a good deed, save the internet from just a little mindless drivel: gnome shell not only not tablet friendly as it is, it's less tablet friendly than gnome-panel in Gnome 2. It's a desktop interface, it's more tied to a desktop computer because more tied to a keyboard. Big icons in the overview menu do not a tablet interface make. Thanks! And then pairing it with the completely different mosaic interface of Windows 8 metro ... What on earth is the great similarity between this and this??? What's the point in being ignorant on purpose, what can there possibly be in that worth striving for?
Kevin108 wrote:Mint's main edition includes Gnome. Whatever else the users of other variations are waiting for, they are prioritized differently. Not quickly recognizing and addressing the obvious displeasure with Mint 12 and Gnome 3 would be equivalent to ignoring the sudden appearance of a large hole in your beer mug. I'm sure Clem has no interest in watching Mint users spill out into other distros, so he's doing the right thing and working to fix what most of us see as a significant problem with the main edition development. I, for one, applaud the decision. For the first time in over a decade, I've been able to stick with Linux and it's thanks in no small part to his work and good decision making concerning this distro. What you call cutting us off from Gnome's main desktop, many of us see as making a proper move to pioneer a better interface that stands to benefit all Gnome-based distros and a move that is certainly saving Mint from what the Gnome devs are doing. If someone decided to no longer use Mint because of Gnome 3, what would he move on to? Ubuntu and Fedora are just as broken. If Clem wasn't doing the work he currently is, there are a lot of us who would stay on Mint 11 until EOL then go to Mint 12 with LXDE or some other DE that was not Gnome 3 or KDE 4.
Again, Cinnamon is Gnome 3, it shares everything with MGSE except the panel layout and the overview - it's not Gnome 2, it's not Gnome 2 reborn, it's Gnome 3 running a slightly modified Gnome Shell. If I had a penny every time I had to state something obvious to a stubborn Gnome 2 sentimentalist, I'd have about 11 pennies. Cinnamon is no doubt handy for users who can't or won't configure Gnome Shell to have a more classic setup but it's not Gnome 2, it has all the problems Gnome 3 has, less configurability, less stability, no compiz all these things Cinnamon aren't changing, it's Gnome 3 with a single bottom panel and no possibility of changing it, that's all.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by kmb42vt »

Lolo Uila wrote:
kmb42vt wrote:
Lolo Uila wrote: ....
Now, none of the DEs offered in Linux Mint 12 or what will be offered in 13 can really be considered "bloatware". Either you run Gnome (Gnome 3/gnome-shell with or without MGSE), Cinnamon (Gnome 3/Cinnamon) or MATE (stands alone). One isn't layered over the other, they're all separate DEs. And I "hear" :D there are also plans to release a separate MATE only edition for those who want strictly a Gnome 2 experience.
If that's so, then why does my system run like crap when I log in to a MATE session. It slows way down.

If what you say is true, then I guess I misunderstood what MATE was, but that still doesn't explain why my system runs so much slower in MATE. I've run Gnome-2 based Linux distros for years, and it's always run great. So what gives with MATE?

And thanks for your help.
Now that's the first time I heard of MATE actually running slower than Gnome (w/MGSE) or Cinnamon. And MATE runs very fast for me on my desktop PC. It has an Intel Core 2 Quad processor, 8 GB memory and an Nvidia GT 430 video card (1.0 GB) so I'd be surprised if I saw any slow down but MATE is defintely a bit faster than Gnome or Cinnamon or at least enough for me to notice. I've also added the MATE 'Tridex repository in order to keep MATE freshly updated but that only solved the crashing problems and added new features--MATE was always fast.

What kind of hardware are you running Linux Mnt 12 on? And are you attmepting to run Compiz in MATE? That's the first place to start if we want to find the answer to MATE doing the big crawl for you.
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by pluraldave »

bimsebasse wrote:Gnome Shell is optimized for keyboard launching and that fact alone makes it obviously not aimed at tablets
+1000.

Certain features of GS looking similar to a mobile OS does not make GS a mobile OS. It's all down to how GS behaves, which is nothing like any mobile OS, and clearly designed with desktop computing in mind.

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by Joe_Linux »

z06gal wrote:
Joe_Linux wrote:What happened to Places in the Cinnamon menu?

Mine shows up underneath "System Tools" when I click on the Menu icon :wink:
I thought I had seen it before, but it's gone now on mine.

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by roger64 »

bimsebasse wrote:
Again, Cinnamon is Gnome 3, it shares everything with MGSE except the panel layout and the overview - it's not Gnome 2, it's not Gnome 2 reborn, it's Gnome 3 running a slightly modified Gnome Shell. If I had a penny every time I had to state something obvious to a stubborn Gnome 2 sentimentalist, I'd have about 11 pennies. Cinnamon is no doubt handy for users who can't or won't configure Gnome Shell to have a more classic setup but it's not Gnome 2, it has all the problems Gnome 3 has, less configurability, less stability, no compiz all these things Cinnamon aren't changing, it's Gnome 3 with a single bottom panel and no possibility of changing it, that's all.
I do not agree with your view of Cinnamon. I find it so handy that I am now sold to Gnome 3 (before I was reluctant, even with MGSE) and happy to make the change. I find it amazingly stable (and remenber it's an alpha release) and use it daily. I have no doubt Clem will improve its configurability in the very next weeks. Don't forget HE is in charge and listening to users'needs... :D

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by kmb42vt »

roger64 wrote:
bimsebasse wrote:
Again, Cinnamon is Gnome 3, it shares everything with MGSE except the panel layout and the overview - it's not Gnome 2, it's not Gnome 2 reborn, it's Gnome 3 running a slightly modified Gnome Shell. If I had a penny every time I had to state something obvious to a stubborn Gnome 2 sentimentalist, I'd have about 11 pennies. Cinnamon is no doubt handy for users who can't or won't configure Gnome Shell to have a more classic setup but it's not Gnome 2, it has all the problems Gnome 3 has, less configurability, less stability, no compiz all these things Cinnamon aren't changing, it's Gnome 3 with a single bottom panel and no possibility of changing it, that's all.
I do not agree with your view of Cinnamon. I find it so handy that I am now sold to Gnome 3 (before I was reluctant, even with MGSE) and happy to make the change. I find it amazingly stable (and remenber it's an alpha release) and use it daily. I have no doubt Clem will improve its configurability in the very next weeks. Don't forget HE is in charge and listening to users'needs... :D
To add to this, Cinnamon 1.1.3 milestone has been completed and should be released as an update in the next day or so. This update should add the ability to add and remove apps from Favorites in the menu and the Panel (much better than the crude 'Add to panel' that exists now I hope). Patience is needed right now as Cinnamon is still in it's alpha stage and there's awhile to go yet until it's finished (but no more than the next release of Linux Mint). The thing to keep in mind is that this is a complete rewrite of gnome-shell by the folks who really know about usability and the the ability to customize their distro.
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by craig10x »

That's great to hear :D I've been enjoying using Cinnamon as my main session on Mint 12 also...even without the extra features that will be coming down in the updated versions...i agree that by Mint 13 release it should be terrific...it is already my favorite on here... :wink:

Would also love to see a few really nice "default themes" on it too...but even the one on there now is nice...

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by Kevin108 »

bimsebasse wrote:Reasoning with rocks #24:
Flattery will get you nowhere. :wink:
You talk about big buttons, where are they?
Image
the keyboard launching described above takes the same amount of time it takes to move the mouse to an icon an click on it, so shortcuts aren't necessary.
Typing, to launch programs? That will definitely draw users away from Windows and Mac! I know most of us Linux users are quite content with the terminal but what Gnome 3 delivers is a patchwork function to make a tablet interface usable with a conventional keyboard.
What on earth is the great similarity between [Windows 8] and [Gnome 3]?
Image
Again, Cinnamon is Gnome 3, it shares everything with MGSE except the panel layout and the overview - it's not Gnome 2, it's not Gnome 2 reborn, it's Gnome 3 running a slightly modified Gnome Shell.
You and Esteban have proven it is possible to acquire a more traditional Mint look out of Gnome 3 however this is not what existing Mint users expect to have to do, hence Cinnamon. Your own screenshots show that what is possible with modification and what is provided are two very different things.

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by Rehdon »

Kevin108 wrote:Typing, to launch programs? That will definitely draw users away from Windows and Mac! I know most of us Linux users are quite content with the terminal but what Gnome 3 delivers is a patchwork function to make a tablet interface usable with a conventional keyboard.
Exactly. The "it's so easier to launch a program in GS, just go to the overview and type the first letters..." mantra that's been repeated ad nauseam by the GS devs is just an escape hatch for the keyboard-oriented users, i.e. themselves. This is what caused the backlash from so many Gnome 2 users: that UI is aimed either at total newbies (assuming it is an effective one to that purpose, which I frankly doubt) or at dev-level users (again, lots of advanced users and programmers disagree here, but keep in mind I'm talking of "aims"), there's no middle ground.

BTW loved your reply to the "where are the big buttons" question XD

Rehdon

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by pony-tail »

Imagine Mint 11 on a tablet: there's a nice menu button, push it, choose submenu and find program, easy. Gnome Shell: you can't do it the easy way pressing the windows key, so you press "Activities", a button no larger than the mint menu button, a bit thinner if anything, then you need to press Applications (a button no larger...) and then you can choose to get a list of all programs or a filter option on the right. Which method is easier touchscreen only? Mint 11. Now let's switch to a desktop with a keyboard. Gnome Shell: launch any program or open any home folder you need with a combination of windowskey+2-3-4 letters+enter, easy. In Mint 11, grab your mouse, click on Menu, find the menu category, expand, in the submenu find what you need, click again, takes longer, less easy. There are no panel or desktop icon shortcuts in Gnome Shell. Why? Because the keyboard launching described above takes the same amount of time it takes to move the mouse to an icon an click on it, so shortcuts aren't necessary. Is this tablet friendly? Obviously not, tablet interfaces strives to make do without a keyboard, they are pulling in the opposite direction of Gnome Shell. Please just some of you, do a good deed, save the internet from just a little mindless drivel: gnome shell not only not tablet friendly as it is, it's less tablet friendly than gnome-panel in Gnome 2. It's a desktop interface, it's more tied to a desktop computer because more tied to a keyboard. Big icons in the overview menu do not a tablet interface make. Thanks! And then pairing it with the completely different mosaic interface of Windows 8 metro ... What on earth is the great similarity between this and this??? What's the point in being ignorant on purpose, what can there possibly be in that worth striving for?
Yeah use the keyboard to start programmes - I used to do that in the 80s on my IIe - It was called command line !
Seriously though , I do not touch type and using the interface in the way you indicate is not in any way comfortable for me . It may work for you - fine - just do not assume what works for you works for everybody - because it does not ! Just because you find it a better way does not necessarily make it superior to any other way it just suits you .
I like the way Clem is heading . That is why I am here not on the Ubuntu forums , having "Unity " shoved down my throat with any dissent savagely gagged was not my idea of what Linux should be . At least here there is only a very small few that wish to shove their personal agenda down peoples throats .
You are entitled to your opinion but just because someone disagrees does not make them wrong or you right or vice versa .

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by Arrow2Knee »

When I run ./configure in the Cinnamon git clone, I get:

configure: error: Package requirements (gio-2.0 >= 2.29.10
gio-unix-2.0 dbus-glib-1 libxml-2.0
gtk+-3.0 >= 3.0.0
folks >= 0.5.2
libmutter >= 1.0.0
gjs-internals-1.0 >= 1.29.18
libgnome-menu-3.0 gconf-2.0
gdk-x11-3.0 libsoup-2.4
clutter-x11-1.0 >= 1.7.5
libstartup-notification-1.0 >= 0.11
gobject-introspection-1.0 >= 0.10.1
libcanberra
telepathy-glib >= 0.15.5
telepathy-logger-0.2 >= 0.2.4
polkit-agent-1 >= 0.100 xfixes
libnm-glib libnm-util gnome-keyring-1) were not met:

Requested 'gio-2.0 >= 2.29.10' but version of GIO is 2.25.9
No package 'folks' found
No package 'gjs-internals-1.0' found
No package 'libgnome-menu-3.0' found
No package 'gconf-2.0' found
No package 'libsoup-2.4' found
No package 'gobject-introspection-1.0' found
No package 'libcanberra' found
No package 'telepathy-glib' found
No package 'telepathy-logger-0.2' found
No package 'polkit-agent-1' found
No package 'libnm-glib' found
No package 'libnm-util' found


But those packages aren't available with synaptic and also sudo apt-get install ... doesn't work ...

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by viking777 »

Arrow2Knee wrote:When I run ./configure in the Cinnamon git clone, I get:

configure: error: Package requirements (gio-2.0 >= 2.29.10
gio-unix-2.0 dbus-glib-1 libxml-2.0
gtk+-3.0 >= 3.0.0
folks >= 0.5.2
libmutter >= 1.0.0
gjs-internals-1.0 >= 1.29.18
libgnome-menu-3.0 gconf-2.0
gdk-x11-3.0 libsoup-2.4
clutter-x11-1.0 >= 1.7.5
libstartup-notification-1.0 >= 0.11
gobject-introspection-1.0 >= 0.10.1
libcanberra
telepathy-glib >= 0.15.5
telepathy-logger-0.2 >= 0.2.4
polkit-agent-1 >= 0.100 xfixes
libnm-glib libnm-util gnome-keyring-1) were not met:

Requested 'gio-2.0 >= 2.29.10' but version of GIO is 2.25.9
No package 'folks' found
No package 'gjs-internals-1.0' found
No package 'libgnome-menu-3.0' found
No package 'gconf-2.0' found
No package 'libsoup-2.4' found
No package 'gobject-introspection-1.0' found
No package 'libcanberra' found
No package 'telepathy-glib' found
No package 'telepathy-logger-0.2' found
No package 'polkit-agent-1' found
No package 'libnm-glib' found
No package 'libnm-util' found


But those packages aren't available with synaptic and also sudo apt-get install ... doesn't work ...
What are you trying to install it on?

If it is LMDE you are never going to succeed (unless you are using unstable branch, even then I am not sure). If you are using Mint12 you can get it from the package manager so you don't need git (unless there is some new version in there that you are trying to test).
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by sunewbie »

regarding the keyboard war, though a bit off topic, I would like to say something.

keyboard launchers like gnome-so and synapse make things easy.

CLI does not accept spell mistakes and no auto complete option with auto focus on the most probable choice (e.g. type F and Firefox will be auto focussed). It does not remember the last choice.

So keyboard launchers make things easy. Again when telling instructions of phone and even on forums, giving keyboard shortcuts is a better option I feel. (with team viewer and ammyy things are changing).

Regarding customizations, end users generally change wallpapers and sometimes themes and like to put icons on desktop. If these things are not easily reachable / doable, then I wont use it, just a personal opinion.

Innovation and experimentation, keeping in mind the future of computing is not bad.

Only problem is WHY Gnome devs have not given any importance to maintaining gnome2, till Gnome 3 is very stable. WHY SO MUCH RUSH. WHY are they not listening to users.

Had they put Gnome 3 as a preview / development release and were ready to take inputs from power and end users, things would have been different.

So the result is MATE, and now cinnamon.

As I have said, I am not a pro, just an average End User and I learn a lot from reading post and others opinion.
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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by Arrow2Knee »

I managed to get all the package depencies, but now I get this error with ./configure:

Code: Select all

configure: error: glib-compile-schemas not found.
I tried re-installing glib and everything but nothing seems to work ...

Clem, can you check this please?

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by truexfan81 »

well, while on the topic of mate being slow, its just as fast as gnome 2 on my pc, however on the netbook, its super slow, cinnamon runs circles around it, not sure why it would do that, but whatever lol i only signed on to mate to see what it would do, i clicked the mint menu button, and had to wait about 30 seconds for the menu to popup. Clicking the menu button on cinnamon only takes about 5 seconds.

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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Post by z06gal »

Just updated Cinnamon and love the panel auto hide and the ability to right click in the menu to put icons wherever we want them. This is going to be a really nice de by Mint 13. Great work Clem!! :D

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