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Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:06 pm
by Oscar799
Moved here by moderator

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:58 pm
by recluce
bimsebasse wrote:So you would both prefer a Firefox with 3 built-in add-ons than a Firefox with none but the possibility to add them and loads more?

And it's not configuration built in, it's setup built in, you can't in any way change neither the menu nor the window list in Cinnamon. You can't disable them or add something else, you're stuck with it. Even if Cinnamon was set up exactly like I like my shell, I would go with the one where I have choices, not the one where I have none.

But this is getting pointless - I'll be in seclusion in the west wing :D
You see, this is why I, for example, use Opera. The functionality is like FF with a dozen add-ons, but I don't have to worry about those add-ons conflicting with each other or a new version of FF rendering half of my most important add-ons obsolete. And yet, even Opera has add-ons for features not that important to the majority of the user-base.

Same for Cinnamon: have a solid desktop without possibly worrisome add-ons that fits most user's needs. And then, for the less common or system-specific functions, let's install those add-ons!

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:03 pm
by truexfan81
there is a simple way to get around the firefox addons getting disabled, its harder to explain than it is to do, but for my more important addons such as fasterfox and downthemall i have done that many times

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Editing_an_ad ... patibility

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:42 pm
by recluce
OK, so I have been playing around with Cinnamon 1.1.13 for a while now - and I have some questions/issues. Any help would be highly appreciated!

1.) "Places" are missing from the Mint Menu. How to fix?

2.) I it possible to have more than two workspaces? - OK figured that one out. Number of workspaces is dynamic - great concept!

3.) I can't drag a window from one workspace to another. All it does is dock the window to the side of the current workspace. How to fix?

Some system information: I am using a dual monitor set-up on a Nvidia Quadro FX1800M with Nvidia drivers 280.13 installed. Twinview is enabled for a total screen resolution (over two screens) of 3840*1080. I am running the 64bit version of LM12 with all patches applied.

And, btw: great work, looks really, really promising and the most desirable DE to move over to from Gnome 2. I am sold now on Mint and will move over all my (non-server) machines when the next LTS version is out (I am too lazy to install a new OS every six months). :lol:

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:33 am
by Lolo Uila
recluce wrote:OK, so I have been playing around with Cinnamon 1.1.13 for a while now ... btw: great work, looks really, really promising and the most desirable DE to move over to from Gnome 2. I am sold now on Mint and will move over all my (non-server) machines when the next LTS version is out (I am too lazy to install a new OS every six months). :lol:
You don't have to reinstall every six months. Non-LTS versions are supported for a year and a half (18 months). I'm still using Mint-10 and loving it! It really was one of the best Mint releases ever.

Played with 12, but wasn't feeling it. Might give it another chance after some of the growing pains have been worked out. Recently download a couple of other distros to try out. Not likin' the way that Ubuntu/Mint/Gnome is headed, so I'm looking for possible alternatives. But who knows. After Cinnamon and/or MATE get more functional and optimized it will likely keep me here with my favorite OS. Been using and loving Mint since version 2 (the "B" days).

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 7:45 am
by Arrow2Knee
For those interested, I made a guide on how to compile and run Cinnamon:
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=208&t=90721

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:35 am
by Rehdon
I've just bumped into an article raising a couple of interesting issues:

What does Cinnamon bring to the desktop?
http://www.linuxbsdos.com/2012/01/03/wh ... e-desktop/

The first, and simpler one, is the number of workspaces: I wholeheartedly agree with the author that dynamic workspaces by default is not a wise choice. I don't know what the devs plan to do with LM 13, but imho this feature, if still present, should be a choice for the advanced user and not enabled by default. BTW I can confirm that when I test Cinnamon dynamic workspaces conflict with the static workspace extension I'm using in LM MGSE: under Cinnamon 1.1.2 I had one less workspace, under 1.1.3 I have one more.

The other issue is that of the usefulness of the overview mode: here I disagree with the author, but I suspect a lot more thought is required to really come out with something innovative *and* useful. In other words, I don't think that removing "Applications" makes it useless, but is adding "Themes" to it really useful? Aren't themes, and similar preference options, better handled through the system settings program? why single out themes for the overview mode?

IMHO the overview mode is useful when you interrupt your normal activities (writing, watching movies, listening to music etc.) to do some meta, system-related actions:

- Windows: look for a specific window or application
- Journal: look for recently used items
- Search: you get it
etc.

To me this means keeping the baby (= innovative features) of Gnome 3 while throwing away the bathwater (= an obnoxious work flow model). Would see no harm in leaving "Applications" as a user choice, not enabled by default.

Now Themes might make sense over there if it were a fast way to change the whole desktop aspect / layout, but again this is just my interpretation, the whole thing has to be thought over long and hard.

Just my 0.02€, looking forward to making Cinnamon my standard desktop ;)

Rehdon

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:51 am
by KBD47
I agree with the author of the article that activities view needs to go, it's both useless and unnecessary. And that top left hot corner is obnoxious when you keep hitting it by accident as I often do when using the back button in Chromium. Would also like the option to remove workspaces. I don't use the feature and it takes up panel real estate on my netbook.
I think Cinnamon is the best way forward for Mint. And that with more options and ability to configure it will really shine.
KBD47

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:06 am
by Rehdon
KBD47 wrote:I agree with the author of the article that activities view needs to go, it's both useless and unnecessary.
Is it? Even if it only consisted of the Windows view it'd be a useful overview of all apps on all workspaces, letting you pick up quickly the one you want, moving windows from a workspace to another, etc.

But it is after adding stuff like the Journal overview, the one making use of Zeitgeist, that it really shines: really handy to find stuff you've worked on, all neatly subdivided by categories. And so on. I say we don't make the Gnome devs' mistake to throw away the baby with the bathwater, Cinnamon should pick, choose and integrate to be innovative, not just a Gnome 2 clone; don't we have Mate for that purpose?
KBD47 wrote:And that top left hot corner is obnoxious when you keep hitting it by accident as I often do when using the back button in Chromium.
I might be wrong, but iirc Clem said that it was going to be configurable.
KBD47 wrote:Would also like the option to remove workspaces. I don't use the feature and it takes up panel real estate on my netbook.
That's a matter of user habit, but note that Linux users are used to have workspaces: even newbies to whom I've introduced Ubuntu in the past have appreciated the feature a lot. So just getting rid of workspaces looks awfully wrong to me, unless you mean 'hiding the workspace applet' of course.
KBD47 wrote: I think Cinnamon is the best way forward for Mint. And that with more options and ability to configure it will really shine.
Fully agreed.

Rehdon

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:14 am
by KBD47
I'm thinking in Mint 11 workspaces had to be added to the panel by the user, and was not there by default.

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:36 am
by Cythes
I was just reading up on Clem's Wiki on GIT for Cinnamon(By the way thanks now I know how to spell it properly). Which can be found: Here It is about theming and so on.
The idea that caught my eye was this:
The theme needs to be either a Gnome Shell theme (in which case most of the desktop will be themed) or even better a Cinnamon theme..
This leads me to the question:
What are the odds of them making a cinnamon specific theme site like Gnome-look and calling it CinnamonSpice or something of that nature? A possible tagline when it comes to customizing could be "Lets spice things up." Just shooting ideas out there. Either way I posted it here since I did not think it needed its own thread. :)

Keep up the great work guys, so far I love Cinnamon!

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:27 am
by roger64
And Spice girls should flock in droves.. Fine idea. :D

A very small wish list

1- "recently used files" should survive somewhere... It was a handy Gnome2 feature.

2- On my brand new laptop, which is more wide than high, some contextual menus are really tooooo verbose and do not fit on the screen. More often than not, the lower "properties" tag is lost somewhere on my belly. There is no easy way to shorten these menus that I know of.Could an advisable css option in themes help improve this?

3-The MintMenu slab should offer the possibility to turn off transparency. Before 1.1.4, would it be possible to give an advice to theme writers to provide the users with an easy option for to do it?

4. I do not like too much the minimized windows in the down panel. They change their size as more and more are opened, and I find this a little disturbing. With Gnome2, I enjoyed using an applet called Talika which used one icon for each window. It was very fine, easy to understand. Could the user have the choice between the today's windows and the icons?

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:39 am
by maxdule
"recently used files" should survive somewhere... It was a handy Gnome2 feature.
Not for everyone. I even tried to delete "Recently used" shortcut in window that appears when some file is supposed to be saved. As it had fooled me once to save the file in nested folder on disk with the same name and I later looked for it for 10 minutes until I figured out what happened. This was my mistake, but I still don't prefer having this around.

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:01 am
by pluraldave
KBD47 wrote:I'm thinking in Mint 11 workspaces had to be added to the panel by the user, and was not there by default.
Yes, but this also lead to the problems of
a) New users not discovering the workspaces feature
b) Users who had not discovered workspaces accidentally changing workspace and not knowing how to get back to their open application(s).

Perhaps with the overview in place it is not necessary any more, but its exclusion from the gnome-2 panel always struck me as an issue of available panel space rather than a mark of its usefulness.

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:02 am
by ferri
pluraldave wrote: Yes, but this also lead to the problems of
a) New users not discovering the workspaces feature
b) Users who had not discovered workspaces accidentally changing workspace and not knowing how to get back to their open application(s).
I agree.
Because this feature of linux graphical environments is very strong.
And explaining this to windows users always takes me much time.

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:06 am
by Cythes
roger64 wrote:And Spice girls should flock in droves.. Fine idea. :D
We could use a few of them as well, but still its a decient idea. :D

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:12 am
by bimsebasse
Cythes wrote:I was just reading up on Clem's Wiki on GIT for Cinnamon(By the way thanks now I know how to spell it properly). Which can be found: Here It is about theming and so on.
The idea that caught my eye was this:
The theme needs to be either a Gnome Shell theme (in which case most of the desktop will be themed) or even better a Cinnamon theme..
This leads me to the question:
What are the odds of them making a cinnamon specific theme site like Gnome-look and calling it CinnamonSpice or something of that nature?
Slim, I think, Cinnamon themes will pop up on deviantart and gnome-look like everything else linux theme wise. The good Clem doesn't mention that Gnome Shell themes aren't compatible with Cinnamon - try and switch to any shell theme and see what it does to the menu in Cinnamon :D

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:50 pm
by recluce
I hope it is OK in this forum to bounce unanswered questions after a couple of days...
recluce wrote:OK, so I have been playing around with Cinnamon 1.1.13 for a while now - and I have some questions/issues. Any help would be highly appreciated!

1.) "Places" are missing from the Mint Menu. How to fix?

3.) I can't drag a window from one workspace to another. All it does is dock the window to the side of the current workspace. How to fix?
Any answers, please?

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 3:08 pm
by pluraldave
Better to start a new thread for specific issues rather than posting in a discussion thread.

1. Don't know.

3. a) Flick your mouse up into the top left corner to activate the overlay and then drag and drop the application onto the workspace you would like to move it to.
b) Use the keyboard shortcut ctrl+alt+shift + (left/right) depending on which way you want to move it.

In Gnome-shell workspaces are vertical so you can just drag up/down in the overlay mode (but not "normal" mode) but in Cinnamon the workspaces have been changed to horizontal so dragging doesn't work. I'd guess that this is something that will change as Cinnamon is developed.

ps: what happened to 2? :p

Re: Another DE option for Mint 12 - Cinnamon

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:10 pm
by tbonney
I'm trying out Cinnamon and I can't seem to find a setting to move the panel and menu to the top of the screen rather than the default bottom. Is that possible?