Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

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realitykid
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Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by realitykid »

I am assuming that, since Cinnamon is included in LMDE by default, Cinnamon will become the default desktop environment in Linux Mint 13. Am I right? I realize that MATE is the default in LMDE right now, but I am thinking that is due to Cinnamon still being relatively new. What does everyone else think?

Personally, I am hoping that Cinnamon will be the default in Mint 13. It is an awesome desktop environment. No real need for MATE (unless you absolutely cannot live without Compiz). But, if it isn't the default, then I am fine with that too. I can just easily download and install it.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

I'm pretty sure that Cinnamon will be default in Mint 13. There definitely will be a version with cinnamon installed, and I'm pretty sure that there will also be a MATE version.

Edit: By MATE version I mean a version that includes MATE, although it might not be the default (similar to how it was with mint 12)
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by realitykid »

cwwgateway wrote:I'm pretty sure that Cinnamon will be default in Mint 13. There definitely will be a version with cinnamon installed, and I'm pretty sure that there will also be a MATE version.

Edit: By MATE version I mean a version that includes MATE, although it might not be the default (similar to how it was with mint 12)
Ok, thanks. Ya, Cinnamon is an awesome desktop environment. So seeing it default in Mint 13 will be great.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by bimsebasse »

I fear it will be MATE.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by z06gal »

bimsebasse wrote:I fear it will be MATE.

Please no. Ugh
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by mikemmm »

z06gal wrote:
bimsebasse wrote:I fear it will be MATE.

Please no. Ugh
Why all the animosity towards Mate? (Not just this thread, but in a lot of threads in the forum.) Gnome 2 was very popular - the most popular of all the desktops - and Mate is simply Gnome 2 repackaged. It's not as though a substandard desktop environment is suddenly being forced on us (like what happened last year.) Had Gnome 2 not been killed off by the Gnome project, we'd still have it as the default in many distributions because that's what most users would prefer, and they'd be happy with that. I agree that Cinnamon is a more exciting desktop, mostly because it's new and we love to watch it progress from one release to the next. Mate is older-looking, since it looks like the same Gnome 2 desktop that we've had for years. Not a bad thing, just not exciting; it's not as though we use to criticize Gnome 2 for looking old.

What's really important to many people, however, is what desktop will actually work for them. Cinnamon, because of its Gnome 3 origin, simply doesn't work on a lot of desktops without reliable 3D graphics. In fact, it doesn't work well on any of the five PC's in my household. I'm simply out of luck in that regard. Hopefully that'll change in the future, as I'd love to have a chance to use Cinnamon. But for now, I'm sure that Mate's greater acceptability is a major factor to Clem when it comes to deciding what to use as a default in Mint. Personally, I won't complain regardless of what the default desktop is, as long as I can install one that I like.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by realitykid »

bimsebasse wrote:I fear it will be MATE.
Why on earth would they want MATE as their default desktop environment in Mint 13? That's a major step back from even MGSE (which isn't that great in my opinion). If Cinnamon is not ready to be the default in Mint 13, then MGSE will probably remain the default.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by realitykid »

mikemmm wrote:
z06gal wrote:
bimsebasse wrote:I fear it will be MATE.

Please no. Ugh
Why all the animosity towards Mate? (Not just this thread, but in a lot of threads in the forum.) Gnome 2 was very popular - the most popular of all the desktops - and Mate is simply Gnome 2 repackaged. It's not as though a substandard desktop environment is suddenly being forced on us (like what happened last year.) Had Gnome 2 not been killed off by the Gnome project, we'd still have it as the default in many distributions because that's what most users would prefer, and they'd be happy with that. I agree that Cinnamon is a more exciting desktop, mostly because it's new and we love to watch it progress from one release to the next. Mate is older-looking, since it looks like the same Gnome 2 desktop that we've had for years. Not a bad thing, just not exciting; it's not as though we use to criticize Gnome 2 for looking old.

What's really important to many people, however, is what desktop will actually work for them. Cinnamon, because of its Gnome 3 origin, simply doesn't work on a lot of desktops without reliable 3D graphics. In fact, it doesn't work well on any of the five PC's in my household. I'm simply out of luck in that regard. Hopefully that'll change in the future, as I'd love to have a chance to use Cinnamon. But for now, I'm sure that Mate's greater acceptability is a major factor to Clem when it comes to deciding what to use as a default in Mint. Personally, I won't complain regardless of what the default desktop is, as long as I can install one that I like.

Well, MATE can always come preinstalled next to Cinnamon, like it was in Mint 12 with MGSE. Or, better yet, Clem can release another ISO that uses MATE as it's default desktop, and have Cinnamon be the main one.

However, I think that Clem has already made plans to make Cinnamon the default in 13, assuming that it is ready.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by zerozero »

apparently we'll have both (each one on its iso)
Linux Mint 13 should feature separate editions for MATE and Cinnamon. Whether one of these and which of these two editions will be considered the “default” wasn’t decided yet.
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1974
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by bimsebasse »

mikemmm wrote:
z06gal wrote:
bimsebasse wrote:I fear it will be MATE.

Please no. Ugh
Why all the animosity towards Mate? (Not just this thread, but in a lot of threads in the forum.) Gnome 2 was very popular - the most popular of all the desktops - and Mate is simply Gnome 2 repackaged. It's not as though a substandard desktop environment is suddenly being forced on us (like what happened last year.) Had Gnome 2 not been killed off by the Gnome project, we'd still have it as the default in many distributions because that's what most users would prefer, and they'd be happy with that. I agree that Cinnamon is a more exciting desktop, mostly because it's new and we love to watch it progress from one release to the next. Mate is older-looking, since it looks like the same Gnome 2 desktop that we've had for years. Not a bad thing, just not exciting; it's not as though we use to criticize Gnome 2 for looking old.

What's really important to many people, however, is what desktop will actually work for them. Cinnamon, because of its Gnome 3 origin, simply doesn't work on a lot of desktops without reliable 3D graphics. In fact, it doesn't work well on any of the five PC's in my household. I'm simply out of luck in that regard. Hopefully that'll change in the future, as I'd love to have a chance to use Cinnamon. But for now, I'm sure that Mate's greater acceptability is a major factor to Clem when it comes to deciding what to use as a default in Mint. Personally, I won't complain regardless of what the default desktop is, as long as I can install one that I like.
All good points though by the bye I had more issues when I briefly dabbled with MATE than I have had with Cinnamon. I have nothing against MATE but Cinnamon already has more momentum, a more thriving community and is getting more positive appraisals on the web, and it hasn't even come pre-installed in a distro yet, unlike MATE. Just seems to me there is more potential and a brighter future with Cinnamon than with a mummified Gnome 2. Personally it's not an issue, I'll just get the cinnamon ISO whatever it's the default "main" ISO or not, just think it would be a bad move for Mint as a whole to put MATE ahead of Cinnamon.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

@realitykid
MGSE won't be included in mint 13. Cinnamon is what MGSE led to, and that is how it is considered by the devs - pretty much all of the MGSE extensions were built into cinnamon.

And, as I have said many times, I prefer Cinnamon. The problem is the LMDE iso comes with MATE, and I'm not sure if it would be completely feasible to release LMDE with MATE as default and Mint 13 with Cinnamon as default.

And, on the subject of 3d rendering, Mint 13 will come with a Cinnamon 2d mode and will support software rendering, so basically everybody will be able to run it, although there are no guarantees about how fast it will be (I've heard that it isn't bad, though).

Edit: Also, I want to say that Clem said that he wants to be able to say that Mint 13 is better than what we had with Mint 9/10/11. MATE may be almost as good as, say, Mint 11 (I say Mint 11 because it and Ubuntu 11.04 were kind of buggy), but its definitely not better and I would use Mint 9 or 10 any day over MATE (if Mint 10 was still supported).

I think that MATE is very important, though. It gives people who have computers that won't work well with Cinnamon and people who are dedicated to gnome 2 a place to go. MATE works well, but I like both gnome 2 and Cinnamon better.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by KBD47 »

I don't know if we will get any real numbers on it, but I would be very interested in knowing which release, MATE or Cinnamon, get the most downloads for Mint 13. I think many people who are not very impressed with MATE only know it from its first release with Mint 12, but if you really want to see what it looks like try out the LMDE RC. I had two setups, one with LMDE Gnome 2, and one with LMDE MATE. I could hardly tell the difference between them. MATE is more mature and can be configured more than Cinnamon, that is not to diss Cinnamon, it's a nice desktop, but MATE has become impressive IMO.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by esteban1uy »

zerozero wrote:apparently we'll have both (each one on its iso)
Linux Mint 13 should feature separate editions for MATE and Cinnamon. Whether one of these and which of these two editions will be considered the “default” wasn’t decided yet.
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1974
I'm afraid I don't get it.
Isn't it like deciding wich version, 32 bit or 64 bit, will be the default?

What implies for an edition to be the "default"?
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

esteban1uy wrote:
zerozero wrote:apparently we'll have both (each one on its iso)
Linux Mint 13 should feature separate editions for MATE and Cinnamon. Whether one of these and which of these two editions will be considered the “default” wasn’t decided yet.
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1974
I'm afraid I don't get it.
Isn't it like deciding wich version, 32 bit or 64 bit, will be the default?

What implies for an edition to be the "default"?
It's what is in the main edition. Mint 11, for example had the default desktop of gnome 2. It's almost like mint kde vs mint gnome. Mint gnome is default and mint kde isn't.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by esteban1uy »

cwwgateway wrote:It's what is in the main edition. Mint 11, for example had the default desktop of gnome 2. It's almost like mint kde vs mint gnome. Mint gnome is default and mint kde isn't.
Ok, and what are the consecuences for an edition to be named as "default"?
Or, from the user's point of view, what are the benefits of installing the default edition?

In the case of MATE vs. Cinnamon, it sounds to me like McDonald's choosing its default burger: Big Mac or Quarter Pounder?
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by Gaugamela »

With KDE 4.8 I even think that Mint should completely move to KDE. They could just theme it heavily to fit the mint theme and get on with it.
It has come a really long way.

But I love Cinnamon as well - there's a couple of rough edges that need to be polished (when you download an applet you should be able to install it without moving it to hidden folders) but I can see it improving drastically in the coming months.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Gaugamela wrote:With KDE 4.8 I even think that Mint should completely move to KDE. They could just theme it heavily to fit the mint theme and get on with it.
It has come a really long way.
I don't think this is going to happen. It would kind of defeat the purpose of MATE and Cinnamon and there are a lot of people who still want gnome (Including myself).

@esteban1uy
There isn't really a difference other than which ever one is default will be default presumably going forward (maybe not) and it will be what new users or users upgrading from older releases who don't really care or know about other editions will install and it will therefore get an increased user base and more press.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by z06gal »

Mate is really buggy for me but I just love what Clem has done with Cinnamon. I am betting that there will be a Mint 13 w/Mate release and one with Cinnamon. If Mate is chosen, I'll just install Cinnamon which is easy enough :wink:
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by Gaugamela »

cwwgateway wrote:
Gaugamela wrote:With KDE 4.8 I even think that Mint should completely move to KDE. They could just theme it heavily to fit the mint theme and get on with it.
It has come a really long way.
I don't think this is going to happen. It would kind of defeat the purpose of MATE and Cinnamon and there are a lot of people who still want gnome (Including myself).

@esteban1uy
There isn't really a difference other than which ever one is default will be default presumably going forward (maybe not) and it will be what new users or users upgrading from older releases who don't really care or know about other editions will install and it will therefore get an increased user base and more press.

If you want Gnome you are also not getting it with Mint... You're getting a modified shell. Not saying that it's not more sane than Gnome 3 and Unity, but it's just a duplication of efforts when there's already great DE's available. The same could be said of Xfce. Why use Mate, when they could've developed a more mature Xfce desktop for example? But I digress.
Between Mate and Cinnamon this last one all the way!

But I really hope that we will see a more "minty" KDE release. :)
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by dcihon »

I'm going to throw my 2 cents in on this one.
Not that my opinion means anything except to me but.
I think Mint (Whatever version) should offer the best bloated DE and the least resource used DE that is out there.
I've used just about every one of them. KDE can be made into anything you want and it should. XFCE is pretty trimmed down but still can have some nice looking features.
Cinnamon looks like it will end up a mixture of both.
If the developers could just focus on a couple of choices then they could concentrate more on the meat of the OS (and by OS I mean Linux MInt as a whole)
What I would like to see is a way when you install Mint that you can pick the applications you want to use regardless of whether it is tied to KDE or Gnome or whatever. It could load the packages it needs for each DE. If I like Nautilus then I would get what libraries it needs. If I want Dolphin I would get what libraries it needs etc.
You could be presented a menu choice of categories like "File Managers", Browsers, Word Processors etc. Let say liked Calc from libra Office but wanted a different Word Processor I wouldn't have to have the entire Libra Office loaded.
I think you get what I mean.
I know you can install everything and then go back and uninstall what you want (freedom of choice and all) but just looking for an easier way to do it.
Thanks for reading my rant. I could go on but this is enough.
Keep up the good work all you devs out there.
Moderators if you move this rant I understand.
Thanks
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