Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Please post suggestions for improvement of Cinnamon on:
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Shibblet wrote:
realitykid wrote:I agree. To me, Cinnamon is much better than Unity. I'm not saying that Unity doesn't have its place, but it surely isn't on my computer(s). Hell, I prefer Cinnamon over MGSE. No offense, but I found MGSE to be kind of a joke. But, at least it wasn't Unity. lol
To me, MGSE seemed like a transitional step. It was a way to keep the "Mint Interface" idea alive, while embracing the new options of Gnome 3. I'd like to give Clem a high-five for keeping with the "Mint Traditional" interface, which we are all very comfortable with, while bringing in a completely new Desktop Environment.

So, MGSE was the first step toward Cinnamon. If you use Cinnamon, and have used MGSE, you can see how similar they are. Remember the stages of creative evolution. Without Brahms or Mozart, there'd be no Metallica.

Metallica <-- Death Metal <-- Heavy Metal <-- Metal <-- Hard Rock <-- Progressive Rock <-- Rock & Roll <-- Blues <-- Big Band <-- Jazz <-- Classical
I completely agree. From a more development side of things, in the beginning when Cinnamon was first created, MGSE extensions were actually merged one by one with Cinnamon. So yes, it is actually MGSE integrated and improved. I think we may disagree on music, though :lol: .
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by Shibblet »

cwwgateway wrote:I completely agree. From a more development side of things, in the beginning when Cinnamon was first created, MGSE extensions were actually merged one by one with Cinnamon. So yes, it is actually MGSE integrated and improved.
I can see why Cinnamon would be the default in Mint 13. But are they going to include the Gnome-Shell as well, unlike Ubuntu. Most of the Gnome 3 components are there (libraries and such), but you have to download the shell. And that being the case, is MATE going to be included in the ISO, or is that going to have to be downloaded as well?

It's not a big deal for most people now-a-days. If you want a different interface than Cinnamon, most of us just go download it. I have never really understood the whole problem with it being "default".
cwwgateway wrote:I think we may disagree on music, though :lol: .
Whatever man, I have proof! :lol:
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by zerozero »

Shibblet wrote: I can see why Cinnamon would be the default in Mint 13. But are they going to include the Gnome-Shell as well, unlike Ubuntu. Most of the Gnome 3 components are there (libraries and such), but you have to download the shell. And that being the case, is MATE going to be included in the ISO, or is that going to have to be downloaded as well?
there are 2 isos:
- one with Cinnamon (where as you say making the shell work is just a small apt get gnome-shell)
- another with mate
btw they are RC http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=102030
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Shibblet wrote: I can see why Cinnamon would be the default in Mint 13. But are they going to include the Gnome-Shell as well, unlike Ubuntu. Most of the Gnome 3 components are there (libraries and such), but you have to download the shell. And that being the case, is MATE going to be included in the ISO, or is that going to have to be downloaded as well?
No, they aren't going to have a gnome shell edition, although it's probably very easy to install. Like zerozero said, MATE will have its own ISO.
It's not a big deal for most people now-a-days. If you want a different interface than Cinnamon, most of us just go download it. I have never really understood the whole problem with it being "default".
I completely agree. Good defaults are always nice, but if you don't like them, they're easy to change - apt install gnome-shell, apt install unity, etc.
Whatever man, I have proof! :lol:
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I can't argue with that :lol:
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by Shibblet »

cwwgateway wrote:I completely agree. Good defaults are always nice, but if you don't like them, they're easy to change - apt install gnome-shell, apt install unity, etc.
A long time ago Ubuntu had a "Minimal" package for their Alternate Install. So, you'd install the base kernel, and then download "ubuntu-minimal". After the download, you had an Ubuntu Kernel with a very basic Gnome Interface. No apps, no extras, just a bare-bones OS. This package isn't available in the repos anymore.

I have wondered why there isn't an ISO that is just the OS, Interface, and Software Center. The interface could even be Unity for Ubuntu's sake, or Cinnamon for Mint's sake. And just the bare-bone necessities to run the OS. No apps. No Firefox, no Libre Office, and no games. I'd love to see a small ISO that had the bare minimums in it.

Then the user could build the OS from the software center with whatever they wanted. I know there are Linux distros that work that way, like Arch or Gentoo, but none that can use the Ubuntu repositories. And realistically, Ubuntu is the front-runner in Linux software distribution.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Shibblet wrote:
cwwgateway wrote:I completely agree. Good defaults are always nice, but if you don't like them, they're easy to change - apt install gnome-shell, apt install unity, etc.
A long time ago Ubuntu had a "Minimal" package for their Alternate Install. So, you'd install the base kernel, and then download "ubuntu-minimal". After the download, you had an Ubuntu Kernel with a very basic Gnome Interface. No apps, no extras, just a bare-bones OS. This package isn't available in the repos anymore.

I have wondered why there isn't an ISO that is just the OS, Interface, and Software Center. The interface could even be Unity for Ubuntu's sake, or Cinnamon for Mint's sake. And just the bare-bone necessities to run the OS. No apps. No Firefox, no Libre Office, and no games. I'd love to see a small ISO that had the bare minimums in it.

Then the user could build the OS from the software center with whatever they wanted. I know there are Linux distros that work that way, like Arch or Gentoo, but none that can use the Ubuntu repositories. And realistically, Ubuntu is the front-runner in Linux software distribution.
That'd be good, although Clem's said that a minimal iso doesn't follow Mint's "just works" philosophy.

Also, here's Clem's response to my post on the Cinnamon 1.4.0-UP1 post:
Edit by Clem: Both MATE and Cinnamon editions were given the same treatment, they both point to the same release notes page, they both get released the same time and neither of them are simply called “Linux Mint”. It is very likely we’ll only provide magazines and manufacturers with customized non-codecs and OEM ISOs for either MATE or Cinnamon, although this decision wasn’t made yet and doesn’t need to be made until we get close to a stable release. By then we’ll also have gathered community feedback from the RC release. My personal intuition is that Cinnamon might become very popular but that MATE might surprise by its stability. If you consider Compiz (which works with MATE, not Cinnamon) and the fact that Cinnamon still suffers from memory leaks and poor compatibility with some graphics cards, it’s hard to say which of the two will be the most popular. One is cool, the other is solid… they both got approved for an RC today. Let’s wait and see. As Terrell Owens used to say, “get your popcorn ready”! Even before we get qualitative feedback, the torrent statistics will be interesting. I’m really excited about both desktops and really happy with the quality of Mint 13 so far… I can’t wait for these two DE to go primetime
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by zerozero »

interesting :) the community will "choose" which one will the "main edition" 8)

on a side note, about ubuntu's alternate installer, it seems that it will be dropped in the next cycle
Ubuntu’s Ubiquity installer will be ‘beefed up’ to provide all of the features offered by the ‘alternate installer’, resulting in the latter being dropped as a download option. here
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Ok, so the new default Cinnamon theme for Mint 13 is...... Wait for it...... Nightlife-Graphite! Quote from Clem:
@Joseph: We're adding Mint and Graphite to Mint 13 and using Graphite as the default theme. Congratulations on a fantastic job! Note that UP1 now has hoverable and reactive systray icons (the systray applet itself lost its "applet-box" style and doesn't react like it did in 1.4). That means you can style the status icons to hover the same way applet box does ;)
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Now the ISOs have hit heanet.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by phill1978 »

im currently using MATE on my desktop pc after some intinal euphoria using cinnamon on an old intel only laptop (which is still being used to great success)

the problem with cinnamon is as mentioned needs good video support and on my desktop pc i have an AMD ati card which doesnt seem to play well for whatever reason? cinnamon crashes time and time again, moving folder windows (not in expo) is jerky and laggy, I also have an nvidia setup to try with cinnamon but im not too convinced its stable enough.

MATE is basic but it does do the job, unless Cinnamon becomes rock hard stable under all video card combinations its going to ruin the first time experience for the windows migrators (which will happen in droves once steam arrives on the platform) . they wont look back as they reload windows7/8
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by Shibblet »

My question is: If you download the Mint 13 MATE ISO, will adding Cinnamon to it cause problems, or vice versa?
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Shibblet wrote:My question is: If you download the Mint 13 MATE ISO, will adding Cinnamon to it cause problems, or vice versa?
It depends on what you mean by problems. Nothing's going to break or explode or anything, but there will be apps that do the same thing - there will be both pluma and gedit, caja and nautilus, the gnome terminal and the MATE terminal, etc. So basically there will be duplicated menu entries, but otherwise it will be ok (maybe slightly higher memory usage because of more processes?).
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by realitykid »

cwwgateway wrote:
Shibblet wrote:My question is: If you download the Mint 13 MATE ISO, will adding Cinnamon to it cause problems, or vice versa?
It depends on what you mean by problems. Nothing's going to break or explode or anything, but there will be apps that do the same thing - there will be both pluma and gedit, caja and nautilus, the gnome terminal and the MATE terminal, etc. So basically there will be duplicated menu entries, but otherwise it will be ok (maybe slightly higher memory usage because of more processes?).
I would say that it isn't worth it because of that. Just adding unnecessary crap to your system in my opinion. If you want to try out one or the other, then throw it up in a virtual machine, and keep the one you like the most installed on your main hardware.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Quote from the Mint 13 MATE user guide (http://www.linuxmint.com/documentation/ ... h_13.0.pdf):
If you don’t know which edition to use, you should choose the MATE Edition.
While it's still called the MATE edition, not the Main edition, this is sort of saying that MATE is default, as in it is the edition you should use if you don't know which one (although both Cinnamon and MATE are considered equal-ish).
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by Shibblet »

realitykid wrote:I would say that it isn't worth it because of that. Just adding unnecessary crap to your system in my opinion. If you want to try out one or the other, then throw it up in a virtual machine, and keep the one you like the most installed on your main hardware.
I don't mind having two interfaces on my computer. I just don't want to have conflict caused because of the two interfaces. I remember in Ubuntu 11.04, if you tried to install Gnome 2, you'd end up breaking Unity. So you could only have one or the other. I like switching between the two from time to time.
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Re: Cinnamon to be default in Mint 13?

Post by cwwgateway »

Shibblet wrote:
realitykid wrote:I would say that it isn't worth it because of that. Just adding unnecessary crap to your system in my opinion. If you want to try out one or the other, then throw it up in a virtual machine, and keep the one you like the most installed on your main hardware.
I don't mind having two interfaces on my computer. I just don't want to have conflict caused because of the two interfaces. I remember in Ubuntu 11.04, if you tried to install Gnome 2, you'd end up breaking Unity. So you could only have one or the other. I like switching between the two from time to time.
Well then you won't have a problem - MATE was designed specifically so that it could be run on the same system as Gnome 3 (and therefore Cinnamon and Gnome Shell).
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