Mint Debian

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MALsPa
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Re: Mint Debian

Post by MALsPa » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:10 pm

kmb42vt wrote: If successful in pulling this off, it means that LMDE has the potential to become the first 100% Debian based distro that's absolutely user friendly for the new Linux user while being lean and fast as well. So far, no other 100% Debian based distro can say that and I've tried enough of them.
Seems to me that Mepis can say all that. Maybe LMDE will be more user-friendly, and leaner and faster -- we'll see. It kinda seems like LMDE is gonna be pretty much an alternative to Mepis, except with Mint tools instead of Mepis tools, and based on testing instead of on stable.

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kmb42vt
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Re: Mint Debian

Post by kmb42vt » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:52 pm

MALsPa wrote:
kmb42vt wrote: If successful in pulling this off, it means that LMDE has the potential to become the first 100% Debian based distro that's absolutely user friendly for the new Linux user while being lean and fast as well. So far, no other 100% Debian based distro can say that and I've tried enough of them.
Seems to me that Mepis can say all that. Maybe LMDE will be more user-friendly, and leaner and faster -- we'll see. It kinda seems like LMDE is gonna be pretty much an alternative to Mepis, except with Mint tools instead of Mepis tools, and based on testing instead of on stable.
Just for the sake of conversation on a lazy holiday afternoon (where I am at least)...

True enough but, and correct me if I'm wrong, leaving the fact that they charge for the "official" edition of Mepis aside (and I realized that you can download testing versions without charge but that's an entirely different matter), there's quite a bit of difference between a distro based on Debian stable and one based on Debian testing and strangely enough, OS stability isn't usually one of them. I've found that Debian testing is ridiculously stable and bug free as compared the average Ubuntu release for example.

Either way, I've found the "argument" of using Debian stable vs Debian testing in any distro or even Debian itself to smack somewhat of the argument of Apples vs Windows. But unlike the latter argument, the different reasons (depending on the user in question) for using either stable or testing are both very valid. There are some very good reasons for wanting an OS where the majority of what makes up the OS never changes for 2 or 3 years and is known for it's rock steady stability. On the other hand, there are also some very good reasons for having an OS that is a bit more on the rolling side, especially when it's based on the "testing" side of things that's also known for it's inherent stability.

What it boils down to is use what you like best. I guess one of the things that makes LMDE so special is that currently the Linux Mint Main edition has been the third most popular Linux distro according to Distrowatch (check the sidebar on the main page) over the past 12 months+. So for better or worse, Clem and crew have their own reputation to live up to and that's quite a reputation indeed. :mrgreen:
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by anticapitalista » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:23 pm

Just to put the record straight:

MEPIS does NOT charge for an 'official' or otherwise, released or testing iso.

http://www.mepis.org/mirrors

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Steely
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Re: Mint Debian

Post by Steely » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:32 pm

Probably best if the topic remains on LMDE and not comparing it to other distributions. Just to clear up some information in the previous post regarding Mepis and there being a charge for the official version. There is no charge for the official version on cd. There is a dvd version that can be purchased which includes some packages not included with the cd version.

As Clem has stated this release will have some rough edges. What Clem and Ikey are trying to achieve has taken a great deal of work and its still very much a work in progress. I am sure as it matures and more Mint tools designed for it make it into the release it will become more user friendly. I have used a lot of distributions and the ones that have always stood out for me were the ones where the developers took their time and focused on getting the base as stable as possible and Mint has followed that route with lmde.

Linux is about choice and as a community we should be happy that Clem and Ikey have given us yet another choice. Lmde does have a steeper learning curve than the ubuntu based releases but for those that make the effort to learn the rewards are there.

Dale

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by anticapitalista » Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:12 pm

ikey wrote:
anticapitalista wrote:Just to put the record straight:

MEPIS does NOT charge for an 'official' or otherwise, released or testing iso.

http://www.mepis.org/mirrors
Who said that? :shock: Didn't see it.. Hi, btw :)
kmb42vt did in the post above mine:
"True enough but, and correct me if I'm wrong, leaving the fact that they charge for the "official" edition of Mepis aside (and I realized that you can download testing versions without charge but that's an entirely different matter), there's quite a bit of difference between a distro based on Debian stable and one based on Debian testing and strangely enough, OS stability isn't usually one of them. I've found that Debian testing is ridiculously stable and bug free as compared the average Ubuntu release for example."

Anyhow, back on topic.

Well done to all those involved in creating this Mint Debian Testing. I am sure many users will benefit from it and as previously mentioned, best not to compare with even the Ubuntu Mint. Any distro based on Debian Testing will have its rough edges.

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by kmb42vt » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:12 pm

anticapitalista wrote:Just to put the record straight:

MEPIS does NOT charge for an 'official' or otherwise, released or testing iso.

http://www.mepis.org/mirrors
Ah, my mistake. I hate it when I miss the obvious. Anyway, just conversin' and all that. Sorry to get off topic.
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by craig10x » Mon Sep 06, 2010 5:51 pm

I downloaded the new iso that was just posted to the mirror, and burnt a copy to a dvd....I just wanted to try it out on the live dvd...Sorry to have to report that for me it was a no-go...It loaded in fine and everything came up...only one problem...it would not respond to my laptop's touchpad mouse at all...i kept trying to click on things (menu, volume, clock. etc) no response at all...so finally gave up and ejected the disc...I have a very recent computer by the way...it is a just 1 year old Toshiba 17" with AMD 64/Ati graphics..and all distros and versions i have ran or tried in Linux have always worked on it...including all versions of mint...except for this one...

Yes, i did check the md5...yes i did burn at the slowest speed possible...still, no go... :roll:
I'm glad to hear that many have been able to install and are running with it...no doubt your input to Clem and Ikey will help eventually "hone" this into a first rate edition which the Mint team will be proud (and then hopefully expand into 64 bits and KDE versions as well)... :)

But for now, i will just have to sit on the side lines, enjoy the updates and watch it mature...once it is "newbie friendly" and smooth and stable, i will give it another go...And as i have mentioned "upteen" times (lol) i hope kde versions will be offered as well (especially since i got hooked on KDE now thanks to boo's great Mint 9)... :wink:

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by VRP » Mon Sep 06, 2010 6:07 pm

Hmmm. Can't get very far with the live dvd:

Normal boot gets to the desktop and then scrambles when I move the mouse.

'Compatability' mode boots to a flashing cursor. And then scrambles.


I have an Intel G43 graphics chip which I haven't been able to use on any Mint since 8 (same issue).

EDIT - fixed. Pass i915.modeset=0 to normal entry on grub.
Last edited by VRP on Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by mfdemicco » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:13 pm

I downloaded the new iso and have a few problems:

1. How do you install the nvidia driver? There's no tool in the Control Center.

2. My fonts look terrible in, for example, chromium-browser. This may be related to the above.

3. Update download rate is very slow (may be related to the debian repositories). It's going to take ~ 3 hrs. to download the 264 updates! I have a very fast cable modem connection too.

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by kmb42vt » Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:27 pm

mfdemicco wrote:I downloaded the new iso and have a few problems:

1. How do you install the nvidia driver? There's no tool in the Control Center.

2. My fonts look terrible in, for example, chromium-browser. This may be related to the above.

3. Update download rate is very slow (may be related to the debian repositories). It's going to take ~ 3 hrs. to download the 264 updates! I have a very fast cable modem connection too.
In order:

1. There's no tool as yet for hardware driver installation so you need to add the driver(s) via Synaptic. Updating needs to be completed first as it brings a needed Synaptic upgrade. Once that's done, open the Synaptic package manager and do a quick search for "nvidia". Only 2 Nvidia drivers are available; 173 legacy which I found to be incomplete for some reason and 195. I got the 195 driver installed by installing the following (installing the first couple of items listed will install nearly all rest in the list plus dependencies):

nvidia-kernel-source 195.36.24-4
nvidia-vdpau-driver 195.36.24-4
nvidia-kernel-dkms 195.36.24-4
nvidia-glx 195.36.24-4
nvidia-settings 195.36.24-1 (install separately)
nvidia-xconfig 1.0+20080522-2 (install separately)
nvidia-kernel-common 20100522+1
libvdpau1 0.4-5 (should already be installed but check anyway)
xserver-xorg-video-nv 1:2.1.17-3 (should already be installed but check anyway)

That should be everything you need. Let the packages and dependencies install. It should then build the Nvidia driver module and once completed, reboot. Once you're back up, your display may need to be re-set to the correct resolution via the Nvidia Xserver Settings Manager that you'll find in Administration menu. If, for some reason, you find that there's only one resolution available like 800x600, the Nvidia Xserver Settings Manager should tell you what's missing. I know it told me (it was the nvidia-xconfig package I believe).

And since we're on the subject, you'll probably want to enable Compiz which makes things look a whole lot better, including fonts. Luckily, Compiz is already installed so once you've rebooted and everything looks okay, open the terminal and simply type in: "compiz"

This should enable Compiz. (you're screen might flash a second) You can set your Compiz options via the "Control Center" under CompizConfig Settings Manager. The basics will already be set up for you such as window fading, minimizing animation and wobbly windows.

In order for Compiz to be enabled at boot-up, open Startup Applications in the Control Center, "Add" a new item under the Startup Programs tab and in the Command field, simply type in "compiz". Add a Name and Description, close and you're done.

2. See #1. You might play around with the font settings a bit to get the best font appearance you can. I'm not really sure if Chromium, like Firefox, uses it's own settings to render fonts rather than following system settings.

3. Yup, same here. Wait a bit and it will change. :P

Sorry if that's too much info. I'm used to writing in-depth tech manuals and I can't seem to break the habit.
"Humph. Choice, it is the quintessential Linux delusion, simultaneously the source of it's greatest strength, and it's greatest weakness." (All apologies to The Architect)

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by deadguy » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:39 pm

I just wanted to add that if you need the older legacy nvidia driver (I needed the 96.43.18 for example)
there is a great script for that called smxi. you can find out more Here



Cheers,

Deadguy

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by cudayne » Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:21 pm

As a linux newb. I wanted too see what the hubub was all about.

I downloaded the iso poped it on vertual box an was pretty amazed in how fast the live dvd loaded in vertual box setup with 20 gig hd an 512 ram.

It flew, I been really plaing around with a lot of linux versions due to me an a good friend have been looking too see what versions of linux are out there how they differ an what they do an do not offer for the new user.

Right now him an me are at odds he thinks ubuntu is better I believe mint is far better.

He also tride the debian copy an was impresed with the load time an running of this distribution in a vertual box we cant wait till we get a live version too play with as it will be nice.

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by Binx » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:51 am

I've just downloaded mint debian and tried it live, and it runs great, realy fast and snappy, so my question is, is it ok to dual boot it with mint 9, i have a spare drive on this machine and i dont want to wipe my main system just yet. :)

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by Oscar799 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:58 am

Hello Binx,
I am running LMDE as a dual-boot with Mint 9 main edition on a Lenovo G550 and it has been running without any problems since I installed it yesterday :D
Image

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by HaTeMe » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:18 am

You can load the nVidia Drivers from their Website too but remember that hey can be unstable.

For me they running much better, have always Problems with the Drivers in the Repos (Main & KDE CE).

Hope the new Iso is comming soon, cant wait. :)

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by Binx » Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:26 am

oscar799 wrote:Hello Binx,
I am running LMDE as a dual-boot with Mint 9 main edition on a Lenovo G550 and it has been running without any problems since I installed it yesterday :D
Thanks oscar799 i'll be installing it tomorrow morning. :D :D :D

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by Theologian » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:20 am

muskratmx wrote:I like Linux Mint, just a little ashamed that it's ubuntu based.
I don't see what's so shameful about LinuxMint being based on perhaps the most successful & popular Linux-based distro.
For many, Ubuntu is the entrance to the world of Linux: it certainly was for me. I consider LinuxMInt to be 'Ubuntu+++', & recommend it to would be 'verts' (pun intended): two successes so far, both very happy.

The resentment towards Ubuntu seems largely sour grapes relating to its success, & I find it utterly b-anal & absurd when Ubuntu/Canonical is virtually equated with M$. If the 'hegemony' of M$ is going to be challenged or subverted, Ubuntu is probably the most likely candidate. And yes, aggressive marketing may be necessary.
Arguably, there's too much divergence & air-headedness, & too little integrity in 'Linuxspace' for any other 'free' distro to be able to make that challenge. I find it quite hypocritical that many 'Linux' websites are emblazoned with ads pushing products that are only compatible with M$W.
Is the idea of a Linux-based distro that's more than a personal vanity too much to comprehend?

Anyone who feels ashamed about or resents the Ubuntu base of LinuxMint is FREE to stop using it immediately, examine their sense of personal integrity & ethics, & decide whether or not compromise is acceptable. I know where I stand.

Since Ubuntu seems to be becoming more singular/restricted (e.g. only Ubuntu & Kubuntu have LTS status/APTonCD is not included in the official version/APTonCDs made on Isadora are not accepted by Lucid (IMExp)/Remastersys will not install on Lucid (IMExp)/etc.) perhaps LinuxMint could look for another base, Debian (as its root) being the most obvious.
However it is not necessarily inevitable, for the simple fact that anyone is free to take an existing Ubuntu, customise it, change its name & hey-presto, a 'new' distro.
While Ubuntu have quite rightly stopped misuse of its name by the producers of sectarian versions, I've not seen anything about them attempting to ban the use of Ubuntu as a base.
If anything, a more 'restricted' Ubuntu expands the field for LinuxMInt to produce a 'freer' Ubuntu-based distro, even to have more specifically focused versions - e.g. 'home'/'office'/'netbook'/'server'/'professional'/'student'/'entertainment'/'programmer'/'truck driver'/'space tourist'/etc. :mrgreen:
The fact is, unlike most 'Linuxers', many people DO want a 'standardised' distro on a platter (pun intended), & the producers of distros need to accept this fact.

From Freedom came Elegance.

Please don't throw that away.
FAREWELL TO ALL AT LINUX MINT: IT'S BEEN EXCELLENT!
Celeron/241MiB RAM/#! Statler + SliTaz

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by Robin » Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:42 am

Theologian wrote: The resentment towards Ubuntu seems largely sour grapes relating to its success ...
I respectfully disagree. My own "resentment" has to do with Canonical's insistence on putting buggy, beta software in a distro that is supposed to be "newbie friendly." Software that gives even experienced Linux users fits - what do you think a newbie will do?

If Lucid had been my first attempt at Linux, I would have wrestled with it for no more than a day before going back to Windows. I might not even look for another Linux distro because Ubuntu is supposed to be - according to most of the stuff you find in a Google serach - the best beginner's distro there is. If the "best" beginner's distro is that bad, why even try any other?

I'll simply continue to use Mint8 Xfce until it is no longer supported, and hope that by then LMDE (Xfce?) will be ready for prime time on my machine. But having wrestled with Xubuntu 10.04 for long enough to give up on it, I'm not inclined to use any version of Ubuntu or anything built on Ubuntu after Karmic.

It has nothing to do with sour grapes. It has been, up 'til now, awesome, and I'm grateful for the start I got in Linux because of Ubuntu and Mint.

-R

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by secipolla » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:20 am

deadguy wrote:I just wanted to add that if you need the older legacy nvidia driver (I needed the 96.43.18 for example)
there is a great script for that called smxi. you can find out more Here
Cheers,
Deadguy
Or if you need the latest drivers (better for newer cards).

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Re: Mint Debian

Post by GoustiFruit » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:48 am

Anyone tried to use wifi drivers through ndiswrapper ? For some reason my USB adapter is not recognized ("VIA Networking VT6656 USB-Wireless LAN Adapter") and the ndiswrapper thing doesn't work either :-\

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