Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

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Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by py-thon » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:45 pm

Does anyone know whether LMDE 1 has been completely abandoned or whether there will be security updates (of apt for example)?
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by xenopeek » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:24 pm

You'll migrate to LMDE 2 later this year. LMDE 1 is currently using Debian testing--aka Jessie--as a package base. LMDE 2 will continue to use Jessie as a package base after Jessie moves from testing to stable. You'll continue to get security updates. I think there won't be any more Update Packs, meaning all updates get to you faster. The difference with past is that LMDE won't rebase to the next testing distribution after the current one (Jessie) moves to stable.

If you want to stay on Debian testing, there are LMDE users currently using Debian unstable or even Debian experimental. You can migrate to explicitly use Debian testing if you want, to there might be issues in future with package dependencies if you continue to use the LMDE repository. Others will have a better answer here; I've not done such things with LMDE :wink:
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by py-thon » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:04 am

That much I already knew. My aim was a different one. Currently apt has had two severe issues and it's likely there will be other packages which should be updated before the end of November. Considering the negligence of security issues in LMDE up to now I'm afraid no one cares anymore and nothing will be done to LMDE 1 and everything postponed for LMDE 2.
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by xenopeek » Wed Sep 24, 2014 2:27 pm

I wouldn't say nobody cares, the team is very hard at work to make LMDE 2 (and next versions of Cinnamon, MATE, and Mint tools) perfect. But yes, hours in the day are limited... I'm not familiar with this specific apt security issue and how it affects users, but one could download and install the update manually.

I've just got it confirmed that LMDE 2 will improve significantly in this regard, getting security updates immediately from upstream Debian.
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by py-thon » Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:40 pm

xenopeek wrote:LMDE 2 will improve significantly in this regard, getting security updates immediately from upstream Debian.
Not very difficult to fulfill in absolute terms as LMDE 2 will become Debian stable with a few packages added. And not very difficult to fulfill in relative terms compared to LMDE 1.
xenopeek wrote:one could download and install the update manually.
Yes, but it is not just one package, there are dependencies and the question of downward compatibility with installed packages like synaptic. If it were a simple text-editor I wouldn't mind doing so, but this kind of screams "Start With Full System Backup!".
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by xenopeek » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:25 pm

xenopeek wrote:I'm not familiar with this specific apt security issue and how it affects users
Critical security updates have been made available for LMDE in a timely manner earlier (the heartbleed thing for example). If there is a specific security issue you think is critical, you could bring it to attention of developers.

I'm not comfortable enough with LMDE to recommend other approaches, but I know there are users mixing Debian repositories with LMDE's or even migrating their existing LMDE installation to pure Debian. Perhaps others can pitch in if you want to do something about it now, and can't wait for LMDE 2.
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by py-thon » Thu Sep 25, 2014 8:19 am

xenopeek wrote:Critical security updates have been made available for LMDE in a timely manner earlier (the heartbleed thing for example).
I don't agree with this. LMDE-maintainers on average took much longer than other distros.
xenopeek wrote:If there is a specific security issue you think is critical, you could bring it to attention of developers.
I would have supposed that this is not necessary if the topic is mentioned in detail on each and every website and other maintainers (Debian, Ubuntu, etc.) see reason for an update.
xenopeek wrote:migrating their existing LMDE installation to pure Debian. Perhaps others can pitch in if you want to do something about it now, and can't wait for LMDE 2.
Thanks, but that's not necessary. By now I've got enough information about that, just have to make up my mind, but LMDE 2 is no option. I would just have preferred to delay that a few weeks.
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by killer de bug » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:21 am

py-thon wrote: I would have supposed that this is not necessary if the topic is mentioned in detail on each and every website and other maintainers (Debian, Ubuntu, etc.) see reason for an update.
Maybe the team is focused on his work and don't read the web every 10 minutes like you...
py-thon wrote:
xenopeek wrote:migrating their existing LMDE installation to pure Debian. Perhaps others can pitch in if you want to do something about it now, and can't wait for LMDE 2.
Thanks, but that's not necessary. By now I've got enough information about that, just have to make up my mind, but LMDE 2 is no option. I would just have preferred to delay that a few weeks.
Then if you don't want to go to Debian nor to LMDE2...
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by py-thon » Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:07 am

killer de bug wrote:Maybe the team is focused on his work and don't read the web every 10 minutes like you...
I know that you can't cope with criticism, but you don't have to check every 10 minutes to find out - once a day would be quite sufficient. There would also be a more efficient way in subscribing to Debian's security announcements. I would prefer not to track security issues but the negligence of this aspect in LMDE forced me to do so. Sorry, if you don't consider security fixes part of the team's work, we obviously don't agree in this respect. In my opinion security is far more important than coloured folder icons or something like that.
killer de bug wrote:Then if you don't want to go to Debian nor to LMDE2...
As I mentioned in my last post I am already preparing to do that. Don't worry, you'll be rid of me soon.
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by killer de bug » Fri Sep 26, 2014 8:10 am

py-thon wrote: As I mentioned in my last post I am already preparing to do that. Don't worry, you'll be rid of me soon.
I don't want to be rid of you. I honestly don't really care if you stay or if you leave. I was just thinking that if you don't want to go to Debian or if you don't want to use LMDE2 the options regarding Linux Mint are getting smaller and smaller. But that's you choice. As long as you are happy...
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by monkeyboy » Fri Sep 26, 2014 11:12 am

killer de bug wrote:
py-thon wrote: As I mentioned in my last post I am already preparing to do that. Don't worry, you'll be rid of me soon.
I don't want to be rid of you. I honestly don't really care if you stay or if you leave. I was just thinking that if you don't want to go to Debian or if you don't want to use LMDE2 the options regarding Linux Mint are getting smaller and smaller. But that's you choice. As long as you are happy...
Such restraint, good on you KDB.
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If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry.

Complaining is like masticating most anyone can do it.
However doing it in public is really hardcore.

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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by py-thon » Sat Sep 27, 2014 8:36 am

Currently it is not advisable for LMDE-MATE-users to start tracking Testing.
You are bound to get trapped in a gridlock of dependencies to and from libcaja-extension (Mate 1.6) and libcaja-extension1 (Mate 1.8 ) which will render package management unusable halfway through the upgrade process.
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by kurotsugi » Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:40 pm

I forgot the latest UP. is it on February?
uploading a security patch on a distro based on debian testing isn't easy. the longer you postpone an UP the higher risk you'll ended up with a broken system. we can't fix it by simply uploading a single package. we''ll also need to update all the required package. the mint team simply can't fix it because trying to fixing it might ended up with a chained dependency hell.

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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by Transistor » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:34 am

I switched from Windows XP to LMDE 201403 some months ago. In my understanding, after reading this thread, there will be no more updates for LMDE 201403, right?
But - this means, if I want to use the newest versions of software, I can't do this from now on, because no more updates are provided?

Before I switched from Windows to LMDE, I read the pros and cons on the LMDE website (http://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php), it says:
Pros: You don’t need to ever re-install the system. New versions of software and updates are continuously brought to you.
Isn't that a contradiction to the actual update policy? I'm not wholly familiar with the update concepts yet, so please clarify.
Thanks.

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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by xenopeek » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:47 am

Transistor wrote:there will be no more updates for LMDE 201403, right?
LMDE 2 will be released around November this year. But don't confuse a release (meant for new installations) with having to reinstall. You'll upgrade from your current installation to LMDE 2 without reinstalling. The point of LMDE is you don't have to reinstall every x months.

A bash upgrade is expected shortly for LMDE. (To solve the shellshock problem for LMDE server installations, where the system default sh shell has been changed from dash to bash, and that is using poorly written shell scripts--without user input sanitizing; shellshock is pretty irrelevant for home users.)
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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by Transistor » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:56 am

Thanks for clarifying, xenopeek. I had to ask because, unfortunately, I never read the term "LMDE 1"/"LMDE 2" anywhere except here...
Is it in sight what happens, maybe, a year after LMDE 2 is released? Will there be a "LMDE 3" and what Debian distro will it be based on? Still on testing?

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Re: Current situation of LMDE concering updates?

Post by killer de bug » Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:11 am

Transistor wrote:Thanks for clarifying, xenopeek. I had to ask because, unfortunately, I never read the term "LMDE 1"/"LMDE 2" anywhere except here...
Is it in sight what happens, maybe, a year after LMDE 2 is released? Will there be a "LMDE 3" and what Debian distro will it be based on? Still on testing?
You can read this, it will help you to understand http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2014/08/u ... med-betsy/
If it ain't broke, fix it until it is.

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