How Odious the Deception

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randomizer
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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by randomizer » Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:16 pm

Oh you probably have similar skills, if not greater. I've done plenty of reading that's all. Lot's of reading, but not enough doing. :) Work doesn't give me much time to play any more, but I am thinking of putting Debian or LMDE on my work PC alongside Windows XP so that I can make work a bit more enjoyable (and maybe make my PC feel a bit newer).

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spearmintlinux
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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by spearmintlinux » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:36 am

robert-e wrote:What I find somewhat deceptive is Mint's tactics insuring the continued use of Google's Search. Mint restores Firefox's google search xml on each reboot, unless one takes extraordinary steps to prevent this behavior. Check:

/usr/share/linuxmint/adjustments/firefox, and
/etc/linuxmint/adjustments

There are both good and bad in any distro, but I find this plain ugly.

Regards,
Bob
Debian

Thank you for that tip and the rest of your scathing tips and criticisms. A lot people don't have time to scavenge the internet for the best software and it's easy to buy into the idea that the latest greatest most popular original comprehensive p.o.s. advertised on places like distrowatch.com will do the trick. Tweaking one's personal computer the way one ideally would like it to run is an endless goal which can never be adequately completed.

mikhou
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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by mikhou » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:19 am

I actually have to agree with the OPer. While you do have to do a few more things to get Debian up and running, it's really not any harder than Mint. I am running a Debian XFCE / LMDE dual boot, and I haven't booted into LMDE in months simply because my Debian XFCE install is so much lighter and faster. I used a variation of LM for less than a year before plunging into Debian, and frankly, I, too, didn't find it as difficult as it was made out to be. It's my favorite distro, and at this point, I wouldn't think of going anywhere else.

mikhou

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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by craig10x » Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:41 am

mikhou wrote:I actually have to agree with the OPer. While you do have to do a few more things to get Debian up and running, it's really not any harder than Mint. I am running a Debian XFCE / LMDE dual boot, and I haven't booted into LMDE in months simply because my Debian XFCE install is so much lighter and faster. I used a variation of LM for less than a year before plunging into Debian, and frankly, I, too, didn't find it as difficult as it was made out to be. It's my favorite distro, and at this point, I wouldn't think of going anywhere else.

mikhou
But does pure debian still have the same crappy font rendering by default that you have to tinker with? or did they finally smarten up in the latest release and do the proper ubuntu patching to the libcairo2 like Clem did with LMDE which now makes LMDE render and look as good as ubuntu does?

Also, how about getting all those codecs that mint supplies by default?

And let us not forget all the neat mint tools and mint menu and one panel on the bottom (which i prefer over standard 2 panel set up) that gnome distros usually have...

I would imagine all those things have to be played and tweaked with...sooo much easier on LMDE...it's already there! :wink:

I for one, would not like to have to sit there and do all those changes and as far as patching for rendering, i wouldn't want to tackle it myself...not everyone using linux is a technical pro...LMDE gives one an easier to use version of an excellent system (debian)...

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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by mikhou » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:22 am

Okay, I agree that LMDE is a one-time install that requires slightly less work than Debian. However, I think that the OPer's point was that setting up Debian is not the bear that so many people claim it to be. Also, let's be honest, how many of you guys have installed LMDE and then didn't tweak it at least somewhat? If you're competent enough to tweak LMDE and you can do google searches when you have problems, then you can setup a Debian install. And, again, I think that was the OPer's point - that a Debian install is not that much harder than an LMDE install, and when you are done, you probably have a sleeker, leaner OS than you otherwise would.

Now, let me also say that I am a HUGE fan of LMDE and all LM releases. Like I said, I still have a dual boot with LMDE. I have just found that I like a leaner install of straight-up Debian XFCE as opposed to LMDE, and I also found that it wasn't quite a beast to setup as is usually thought.

mikhou

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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by craig10x » Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:27 pm

agreed...but let us not forget that mint's objective has always been to provide a complete, newbie friendly, "out of the box" experience of (originally) ubuntu and now, in addition, it is simply doing the same for debian :mrgreen:

anyway, you are right there are those here that LOVE to tinker...but then again, others who prefer no tinkering or very minimal tinkering (like me) :wink: And that is the beauty of Linux Mint....

also, i hope you realize that the original poster presented his "feelings" about other debian derivatives being "rip offs" of debian as if the debian project feels that way, and if you read the paste in i posted in an early post right from the debian project website, their view about this is just the OPPOSITE of his...they WELCOME debian derivatives...and in fact appreciate working with them and getting input back from them to help to IMPROVE the project!

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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by robert-e » Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:37 pm

Thank you for that tip and the rest of your scathing tips and criticisms. A lot people don't have time to scavenge the internet for the best software and it's easy to buy into the idea that the latest greatest most popular original comprehensive p.o.s. advertised on places like distrowatch.com will do the trick. Tweaking one's personal computer the way one ideally would like it to run is an endless goal which can never be adequately completed.
Actually, I like LMDE best of all the distros I have tried so far. However, I still stand by my comments re Mint/Firefox/Google...ugly stuff.

"One can stop the smell by holding their nose, but you sure can't fool them Circle Flies". Or in plainer words; "It for sure won't get fixed if it is swept under the rug."

Regards,
Bob

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spearmintlinux
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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by spearmintlinux » Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:41 pm

mikhou wrote:Okay, I agree that LMDE is a one-time install that requires slightly less work than Debian. However, I think that the OPer's point was that setting up Debian is not the bear that so many people claim it to be. Also, let's be honest, how many of you guys have installed LMDE and then didn't tweak it at least somewhat? If you're competent enough to tweak LMDE and you can do google searches when you have problems, then you can setup a Debian install. And, again, I think that was the OPer's point - that a Debian install is not that much harder than an LMDE install, and when you are done, you probably have a sleeker, leaner OS than you otherwise would.
Exactly. I need the transition to get pissed off at all the pet peeves of an easy newbie distribution,before I can even begin to mess with it's grandparent distribution let alone it's ancient ancestor distribution.. One of these days I'll get around to tinkering with the distro http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ , the linux kernel version 1.0, and nothing for a computer but the silicon from the sands of the next time I'm all alone on a desert island for a few centuries.

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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by mikhou » Sun Feb 20, 2011 12:03 am

craig 10x,

Good comments, and I also disagree that other OS's are a ripoff of Debian and that the Debian developers and maintainers would somehow be offended by that. That's the great thing about open source. Everybody has a chance to make something else better!

mikhou

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Re: How Odious the Deception

Post by craig10x » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:42 am

thanks mikhou :) and exactly what i was saying as well...they are not offended (as the Op here is) they APPRECIATE IT...
That page i pasted in from the debian project site was just to make others aware (in case they weren't already) that debian's attitude and view on the subject is completely opposite of what the OP of this thread expressed...which is why i was very puzzled from the time i initially read it...HE may feel that way, but obviously the Debian Project does not... :wink:

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